Ross Brown Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 We have a drummer that complains that the solos are too long for him, he runs out of gas. He doesnt want to rehearse more than once a week, the rest of the band wants to rehearse twice a week. He doesnt want to cut a demo because we aren't perfect yet. He doesnt want to book any gigs, because we arent perfect yet. He leaves holes in the music and cant keep time and constantly argues that songs are being played too fast when everyone else in the band is completely puzzled by his view of proper tempo for these songs. True, we are not perfect yet, but we could play a whole night of good music and we would be the only ones that knew it wasnt perfect. Interestingly, he admitted, when I asked, that he doesnt practice at home on his own. Everyone one else does. I asked them. The solos are not that long. I hate when they get too long too. I watch for it. What should I do? Just kidding, I already did it. Anyone know a good drummer? "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky McDougall Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 My first suggestion is make sure that your drummer is not correct in his assessments of the band. Gigging before you have your act together can give you a bad reputation. If he is a good drummer and he thinks you are playing too fast, he may be correct. If solos are too long, make them shorter. I think practicing once a week should be enough. Others in the band can practice on things where the drummer is not needed. If he is wrong about all this, then fire him and get a drummer that fits. Rocky "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb, voting on what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb, contesting the vote." Benjamin Franklin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picker Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 What should I do? Just kidding, I already did it. Anyone know a good drummer? What did you do with the body? Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbn Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 We have a drummer that complains that the solos are too long for him, he runs out of gas. He doesnt want to rehearse more than once a week, the rest of the band wants to rehearse twice a week. He doesnt want to cut a demo because we aren't perfect yet. He doesnt want to book any gigs, because we arent perfect yet. He leaves holes in the music and cant keep time and constantly argues that songs are being played too fast when everyone else in the band is completely puzzled by his view of proper tempo for these songs. I have a drummer who is probably this guy's cousin. The drummer I have is cool with 2 practices per week, but has to watch some stupid show on Sunday evening so we can't practice then. This puts added stress into my schedule (and the guitar player's schedule) by having to practice two nights during the week. He was extremely reluctant to play book a gig, although we have been practicing for months. He didn't think we were ready, although he was the only one. The problem is, this guy cannot hold a tempo. He speeds up terribly. The 2 other guys in the band and I can play at a nice even pace. Even during rehearsal we are stopping to slow the drummer down. And he has a bad attitude. We need to replace him. The kicker, we recorded the gig on video. I'm the only one who has seen the tape. This guy had the brass to complain about the guitar player's solos saying that he missed notes and that his friends noticed it. Meanwhile, the guitar player is out of town for work. I laughed. I'm the only one who has seen the tape and you couldn't help but notice the tempo issues. There wasn't a problem with the guitar solos, except for maybe we were all playing so fast it was a little tough to keep up. This a'hat won't slow down. I can drag the beat to where he is an 1/8 or 1/4 note ahead of me and doesn't even notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted March 12, 2007 Author Share Posted March 12, 2007 My first suggestion is make sure that your drummer is not correct in his assessments of the band. Gigging before you have your act together can give you a bad reputation. If he is a good drummer and he thinks you are playing too fast, he may be correct. If solos are too long, make them shorter. I think practicing once a week should be enough. Others in the band can practice on things where the drummer is not needed. If he is wrong about all this, then fire him and get a drummer that fits. Rocky Thanks Rocky. He is not a good drummer. Originally we started by thinking we could just practice without him but he is in need of the practice time as much as any of us. We all offered to practice any day or time that fit his schedule. We only intend to practice twice a week until we are gigging on a regular basis. That still didn't work for him. He was also one of the two guys that always seemed to hope practice was cancelled and not flexible in making it up. Also, always had a reason to leave early. I think if he were an outstanding drummer the rest of the band would have been more likely to want to just deal with it and practice once a week without him. We asked the question, would we be willing to play out with this guy? The vote was "no". "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted March 12, 2007 Author Share Posted March 12, 2007 We have a drummer that complains that the solos are too long for him, he runs out of gas. He doesnt want to rehearse more than once a week, the rest of the band wants to rehearse twice a week. He doesnt want to cut a demo because we aren't perfect yet. He doesnt want to book any gigs, because we arent perfect yet. He leaves holes in the music and cant keep time and constantly argues that songs are being played too fast when everyone else in the band is completely puzzled by his view of proper tempo for these songs. I have a drummer who is probably this guy's cousin. The drummer I have is cool with 2 practices per week, but has to watch some stupid show on Sunday evening so we can't practice then. This puts added stress into my schedule (and the guitar player's schedule) by having to practice two nights during the week. He was extremely reluctant to play book a gig, although we have been practicing for months. He didn't think we were ready, although he was the only one. The problem is, this guy cannot hold a tempo. He speeds up terribly. The 2 other guys in the band and I can play at a nice even pace. Even during rehearsal we are stopping to slow the drummer down. And he has a bad attitude. We need to replace him. The kicker, we recorded the gig on video. I'm the only one who has seen the tape. This guy had the brass to complain about the guitar player's solos saying that he missed notes and that his friends noticed it. Meanwhile, the guitar player is out of town for work. I laughed. I'm the only one who has seen the tape and you couldn't help but notice the tempo issues. There wasn't a problem with the guitar solos, except for maybe we were all playing so fast it was a little tough to keep up. This a'hat won't slow down. I can drag the beat to where he is an 1/8 or 1/4 note ahead of me and doesn't even notice. Yea. It is easier to deal with if they have a good attitude and there is good chemistry. We all have weaknesses musically. Funny how drummers don't notice when you try to slow them down or speed them up! "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted March 12, 2007 Author Share Posted March 12, 2007 What should I do? Just kidding, I already did it. Anyone know a good drummer? What did you do with the body? Hung it by the door for the next guy to see. "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davo-London Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 Where's Dave Sisk and Bassdrummer when we need them? We have an excellent drummer in our band (no I don't mean me - I'm his v. poor deputy). So I don't want this to be a drummer bashing thread. However, you seem to have a mismatch in expectations/desire and potentially ability. A drummer who can't keep regular time is going to be of limited use long run - especially if he is not practicing his chops. I think your conclusion is therefore likely to be on the money. Davo "We will make you bob your head whether you want to or not". - David Sisk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicklab Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 The drummer I have is cool with 2 practices per week, but has to watch some stupid show on Sunday evening so we can't practice then. This puts added stress into my schedule (and the guitar player's schedule) by having to practice two nights during the week. Hasn't this moron heard of Tivo? Or at least a VCR?! Talk about screwed up priorities. My sympathies all around. I had to deal with a drummer who thought that his **** didn't stink but had a crap work ethic. It got so bad that the band was just a loss and I had to quit and move on. In the interest of full disclosure, my own schedule sucks. Mostly, I work nights and my schedule fluctuates. But I know my schedule about a month in advance and I'll work around things. But I was dealing with trying to schedule this band with a drummer who had a set schedule and was still too much of a prima donna to get out and do the work and networking that an original band needs to do. Frankly it was a relief to move on from that situation. Dump the garbage and move on. Obligatory Social Media Link "My concern is, and I have to, uh, check with my accountant, that this might bump me into a higher, uh, tax..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted March 12, 2007 Author Share Posted March 12, 2007 It was a relief to let him go. A burden was lifted off of our shoulders, I think. Now we can move on. The band, for the most part, is gelling nicely, after many growing pains. This is just one more. "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yourlord Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 If he doesn't practice outside your once a week session he will never improve. Get a new drummer. I built in our basement and gave our drummer a key so he can come over and jam during the week while we're at work. It made him very happy! Our previous drummer only played when we jammed, and it showed when we did jam. I'm kinda the band critic within our band. I want us pretty much perfect before we start playing anywhere under our banner. I don't complain about tempo except to say it's not fast enough! I do play every day, at least a little. I don't mind longish solos as I'd rather have the guitarist getting off than a singer (personal opinion which the rest of the band doesn't share). It sounds to me like you're not happy with the drummer so I vote either he goes or you go. No point in being locked into a situation you dislike. Feel free to visit my band's site Delusional Mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric VB Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 Welcome to the joys of leading a band! [i know everybody here already knows all this crap, but here goes anyway.] Solos. I've said it before. Any musician should be prepared to play a solo on their instrument. It's not an extended fill; it's a solo. There's a difference. If you try to play a solo like a fill then yes, you will run out of gas. Rehearsals. Once a week should be fine unless everyone is a full-time musician and wants to get a startup up and gigging as soon as possible. Of course this depends on everyone faithfully practicing on their own time. Practicing. It's like homework. You can't ace the test without cracking the textbook open. If you don't practice, you will leave holes in the music, you won't be able to keep time, you won't know the proper tempo, etc. Rehearsals are not the time to practice. "We're not ready yet." This excuse kept my last band in the basement for 20 years with only a few performances to speak of, so it's not something I like to hear anymore. (Well, there were other circumstances, too.) When are you ever ready enough? Come up with a reasonable time table and set a target date to record your demo. This gives everyone a tangible goal to work towards, as in, "You'd better have your act together by XX/YY date, because that's when we're going to be in the studio." Once you're good enough to cut a demo, you're probably good enough to gig. I've been in side projects where I've had a couple weeks to prepare for a short performance. You don't have a choice; you either make yourself ready or you look foolish. Most people opt to not look foolish. I guess this is just something I picked up from being in the band and orchestra in school. Our performance schedule was laid out on a quarterly basis, if not yearly. We only had so many rehearsals before it was time to perform. It was academic. The directors didn't cancel concerts, festival appearances, halftime shows, competitions, etc. Every student was responsible for preparing to the best of his or her abilities, arriving on time with the proper equipment/attire, and performing as best as possible. This goes all the way back to 5th grade (age 10) for me. We didn't just practice all year and put on concerts when we felt we were perfect enough. That's ridiculous! Why run a rock band that way? Looking back on it, the school music program was a great comfort. You knew who was in charge; there was no "democratic leadership". The person in charge picked out the music, rehearsed the group, arranged all the performances, managed all the logistics, and lead the actual performances. [i'm sure it wasn't easy to plan out-of-state, overnight trips for seven coach buses full of high schoolers, instruments, sheet music, etc. That included figuring out a way to efficiently feed 300+ teenagers. And yet we did this several times.] As far as venues, how could it get any easier? The school had it's own auditorium (concerts), gymnasium (pep rallies), and football field (halftime shows). Various organizations set up competitions and festivals; no audition, just follow the registration process. [My apologies to music directors if I'm oversimplifying.] As a student you just had to learn the music and follow simple directions. Easy as pie. And yet for some reason it's so much harder for even as few as two people to pick a set list, transcribe, practice, rehearse, prepare a promo kit, decide when they are "ready" , contact venues, schedule gigs, transport equipment and actually perform. Granted that's a lot more work than just learning the music, so it helps to spread it out instead of relying on the band leader to take care of everything. Or else hire a manager/agent to take care of all the non-musical work (and take his/her cut, of course). [/vent_off] Sorry for straying, Ross. Yes, I'd agree your ex-drummer probably wasn't up to the task of playing in anybody's band. It may seem like your band is now in limbo: not able to move forward without a drummer. But in reality you weren't moving forward with that drummer. So make sure everybody else keeps progressing and keeps an eye out for a new drummer. Maybe start hanging out at the local high schools and colleges. Those percussionists (they're not just "drummers") may at least have a better view on how to practice, rehearse, and reliably show up for gigs. Not every one is going to have a trap set and be familiar with popular music, so look for those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenLoy Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 I don't think I've been ready for any of the pro-level gigs I've played. What didn't kill me made me stronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted March 12, 2007 Author Share Posted March 12, 2007 Thanks RBG, We will keep moving forward (or start moving forward again). The rest of the band has bought in, just need to keep our eyes out for a drummer. I suspect we will likely avoid high school and college drummers. We will be playing bar gigs and age is a factor. Also, this age group feels "temporary" to me. They move away, get married, have babies, change priorities. I am open to anything, but have learned that younger people get busy faster with competing priorities and band members that live far away (more than 30 minutes) have more trouble getting to practice (not the problem in this case). "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted March 12, 2007 Author Share Posted March 12, 2007 I don't think I've been ready for any of the pro-level gigs I've played. What didn't kill me made me stronger. Well said. I have lived my life on the professional "edge". Just jump in and commit to success. I have received much good advice from this forum that told me to "book the gig!" That way the timer is ticking and the heat is on. The drummer thought this was a ridiculous concept. I think he may have stage fright too, but we didn't talk about that. "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul K Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 I don't think I've been ready for any of the pro-level gigs I've played. What didn't kill me made me stronger. +1 for getting out of the garage. You learn tons more and get better quicker when under fire. Things are just the way they are, and they're only going to get worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbn Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 My apologies. You have all caught me when I have quite a bit of pent up drummer tension. I have considered posting about my issues but already know the solution. Kudos to Ross for working out his situation. My band is currently in the process of purging our drummer. We are in a bit of a holding pattern though, not wanting to burn a bridge. He just bought a house and hour away and is going to be a father soon. We expect his priorities are going to change enough within the next month or so that we are willing to try to wait it out. However, if his priorities don't change, the rest of the band has agreed to make the change for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted March 12, 2007 Author Share Posted March 12, 2007 My apologies. You have all caught me when I have quite a bit of pent up drummer tension. I have considered posting about my issues but already know the solution. Kudos to Ross for working out his situation. My band is currently in the process of purging our drummer. We are in a bit of a holding pattern though, not wanting to burn a bridge. He just bought a house and hour away and is going to be a father soon. We expect his priorities are going to change enough within the next month or so that we are willing to try to wait it out. However, if his priorities don't change, the rest of the band has agreed to make the change for him. Do you think it is inevitable? "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 I don't think I've been ready for any of the pro-level gigs I've played. What didn't kill me made me stronger. It's what separates the men from the boys. If you never step up and get out there you'll forever be in your basement practicing for something that will never come. Like Ben, I've learned a lot in the trial-by-fire situations. It's good for you. It builds character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbn Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 Do you think it is inevitable? Yes. We have a show booked on the 24th though. We couldn't get a replacement trained up before then. I have someone in mind, but I'm waiting to find out what his schedule holds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted March 12, 2007 Author Share Posted March 12, 2007 Good luck with the show. "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil W Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 Drummers that can't keep time have to go (likewise bassists - that's how I got my main coverband gig). Make sure that the problem is him alone though and not anyone else contributing; I know a guitarist who is alsways bitching about drummers' time and his time is all over the place. We all need to spend time working on time. One thing that puzzles me is the amount of rehearsals some of you guys do. I haven't ever had to do that frequency of rehearsal . . . and full band rehearsals are often less useful than breaking it down into smaller units. Ah well, it's your choice guys. I suspect that for some of you, rehearsal is the fun music making part of your schedule instead of gigging - so go for the gigs, ready or not. And better no rehearsals with a great drummer than 1000 rehearsals with a dodgy drummer so spend some time finding the right guy. Good luck! http://philwbass.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbn Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 Drummers that can't keep time have to go (likewise bassists - that's how I got my main coverband gig). Make sure that the problem is him alone though and not anyone else contributing; I know a guitarist who is alsways bitching about drummers' time and his time is all over the place. One thing that puzzles me is the amount of rehearsals some of you guys do. I haven't ever had to do that frequency of rehearsal . . . and full band rehearsals are often less useful than breaking it down into smaller units. I've practiced with just the 2 guitar players before. We don't have tempo issues then, they follow me. I know my tempo is solid. When this drummer plays he is nearly oblivious to everything going on around him. He is too focused on the mechanics, less focused on the flow of the music. It is difficult to get his attention when he is playing. I'd be happy with gigging more and practicing less, although I'm okay with rehearsing twice a week. We do work on new material during our practices. Also, this is recreation time for us; an excuse to hang out and drink a couple beers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yourlord Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 Yeah, band practice is where we show each other the different parts of songs we've been working on the past week, and work on harmonizing, etc. It's also the time we all get together and "just have fun" playing together. The real practicing and writing occur outside the band sessions. Feel free to visit my band's site Delusional Mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 I sat down with our drummer to try to iron out some tempo issues. Not so much as keeping a metronimic beat all the way through, more to introduce some very slight tempo changes at mid section/chorus/verse changes. A lot of tunes speed up very slightly to give the chorus or mid section a lift and return to tempo at the verse. It is also part of the human side of music to deviate slightly from tempo. We also worked on playing one or two tunes a lot slower than he wanted to play them. Simply playing things faster to make them more exciting isn't the way to go. Slowing things down and using dynamics is far more effective. This surpised him how good some of these tunes sounded played slower. Playing a tune so fast that the vocalist can't sing the words, or the audience can't dance doesn't get you many gigs. Just 30 minutes work on this has improved him beyond all recognition. As this was one of our biggest problems. He also listened to our demo and heard how often he played the 4 tom run down, and openly unprompted addimited that he needed to work on his fills. Of course if you're playing speed metal then I'm wrong. But I'm too old for all that nonsense now Feel the groove internally within your own creativity. - fingertalkin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted March 12, 2007 Author Share Posted March 12, 2007 We would work with him, if that is what it would take, of course. He didn't want to work at it. He would blow through parts of songs that were vocals only, he missed dynamics, etc.... but the real key was the chemistry. each band can do what they want and what works for them. We all agreed that we wanted to rehearse twice a week until gig ready. The chemistry was bad in that he was on a completley different page than the rest of the band and was not willing to give a little. He was also the first drummer I ever met that seemed like he wasn't going to make it through the whole night. He is out of shape. Most drummers I have played with are full of energy. "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Ferrington III. Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 I've always been tempted by the idea of bolsetring up a crap drummer with a drum machine. You know, let the machine do a simple backbeat or whatever and let the drummer do the fills and turn the machine on and off. More of a percussionist role. Has anybody ever tried this? How did it go? Band MySpace My snazzy t-shirt empire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted March 12, 2007 Author Share Posted March 12, 2007 I've always been tempted by the idea of bolstring up a crap drummer with a drum machine. You know, let the machine do a simple backbeat or whatever and let the drummer do the fills and turn the machine on and off. Has anybody ever tried this? How did it go? Thought about drum machine. Prefer drummer. "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 So what's the body count so far Ross? In one year, you've fired 2 drummers a guitarist and walked away from a band to restart it with other members? And that just since I started visiting the forum. Looks like your audition process may need revising Feel the groove internally within your own creativity. - fingertalkin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cblinkdude182 Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 I hate band politics, I just want to get together some guys occasionally and jam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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