Big Muff Pi not cutting through

[Squ]

So I recently purchased a Big Muff Pi fuzz pedal, and I can get some pretty awesome sounds/tones out of the thing. Unfortunately.. when I'm playing with the band it doesn't cut through, and turning it on actual makes my guitar LESS audible, even when the Big Muff's volume is all the way up.

 

I already have my mids way up, and the bass and treble are pretty much at 5 (on my amp). Is this a trait of all fuzz pedals, or is the Big Muff especially bad in this respect? Any ideas/solutions?

[Gruupi]

I have found that with alot of distortion myself, to much gain and it gets muddy or indistinct. You lose the fundemental note definition. I try to use as little gain as I can get away with. There are ways to get a clear pedal distortion obviously, but it takes lots of experimenting.

[picker]

Get a Boogie and throw away the Big Muff. You'll never regret it.

[Squ]

Well... I have a Marshall DSL 50w, with a 4x12 cabinet... that sounds pretty good. Have you ever tried a Big Muff or another type of fuzz pedal? It's a very different sound from the distortion all of my amps do, as well as other distortion pedals. While I'm sure a boogie sounds good, it won't sound like a fuzz pedal.

 

The point is I love the sound and will definitely use it in the studio, I just also want to use it live and have it be heard. If I turn it on AND switch to my lead channel on the marshall, it can be heard, but then whenever I'm not playing a note, it will cause feedback, regardless of string dampening and room position (I suppose if I leave the room it might stop).

 

I'm more looking to see if, for example, the Fuzz Face doesn't have this problem as bad. Gruupi, you're probably right and it's just too much distortion. I can probably fix it up by turning up the master volume on my amp, but I'm happy with the volume of everything else so that's not ideal. But I can live without it live, I've got too many pedals anyways.

[stanner]

always have loved the muff-it caint do no wrong imo

listen to some talking heads 'remain in light' to hear the best of the best adrianbelew w/ muff cuttin thru all that big band.

it can be done but it takes some eq tweekin...

s

[Dr. Ellwood]

Can that go through the effects loop? if it can maybe you could adjust the input volume for the loop only and be able to use it live that way? I owned a Big Muff an original one and they always went BONKERS like that when cranked up! I was never able to get it to be useable when playing live, I just had no control over it, but yes in a studio situation I can see how one could use it.

[BadLife]

As far as I can tell you drop down in the mix live with any fuzz effect. I always hated that. I am not so sure it's true for someone out in front of the band. But if you turn that sucker on it's hard to hear yourself in the mix.

[Squ]

mmm... I'll try that effects loop idea, something I did not consider.

[rw2003]

For a similar reason I replaced a Big Muff Pi (love that name!) with a MXR Distortion+ but that was way back in 1980!!! I then allowed a friend to borrow the Big Muff who then moved to Florida and has yet to return!

[Dr. Ellwood]

Originally posted by Squ:

mmm... I'll try that effects loop idea, something I did not consider.

Yeah I'm just not sure, we have the same exact amp so I know a little about them but never tried any kind of overdrive or distortion peddle through the loop..in fact I dont't use the loop at all on it! So let me know how it works..I think the input level control could throttle it back maybe and who knows maybe you can get a useable level out of it? anyways its' a good experiment!! please report back!!...LEE

[BadLife]

Fuzz through the loop don't work so well. Time based effects are what you want to put in the loop. Like delay. You can set the loop to serial or parallel for fuzz you probably want parallel that will give you a mix of fuzz and straigh guitar. I don't like the fuzz live you can't hear yourself play.

[BadLife]

I just ran a 70's era Fuzz Face through the effects loop on a Marshall and it sounded pretty bad. Much better in front of the amp. But your results and ears may differ when you try it.

[Squ]

I think I need this:

 

http://www.harmony-central.com/ProductImages/Medium/000000677.jpg

[BadLife]

That will do the trick all right I want one but you got to crank that sucker to get it to sound good Too expensive although cheaper than an original I have never really found a fuzz that I liked it always sounds better to just push the amp. 100 watts is too big unless you got a big venue 50 watts breaks up better at almost the same volume.

[Dr. Ellwood]

AHHHHH YES! The Marshall Major!does that say 100 or 200 on the cabinets? if it's 200 that's the "Pig" I owned one that was a bass rig, finally ended up with the old JMP 50 and gave it to my son when I got the DSL 50 and you know what the DSL is really WAY more useable and way more reliable than they ever where. Especially when you are trying to get more versitile tones.

[Teahead]

The Big Muff sound has scooped mids, this is a huge part of why you're experiencing the trouble you are, especially coupled with the fact that you like to keep the amp's mids cranked. Try turning the amp's mids down to 3 or 4 and then kick in the Muff to see what the result is like.

 

There are modern 'clones' such as the Skreddy Mayo which can be ordered with flat mids, to give the Muff sound more presence.

 

Beyond that, you could add some kind of EQ following the Muff, but it's clumsy and difficult to switch both in/out together. I've hated every Muff I ever played and recommend you check out a Fuzz Face, something like the Analog Man Sun Face available as Germanium or Silicon. Or the London Fuzz variants for a more economical option.

 

The Fuzz Face is the Hendrix style fuzz, plenty of mids, with either fat & warm germanium transistors (early Jimi) or the sizzling extra gain of the silicon, as heard on later Jimi stuff like Woodstock & Band Of Gypsys. They also respond very nicely to volume & tone changes at the guitar, cleaning up and providing many shades of grit and bite and not just one fuzz sound, like the Muff has.

 

Best of luck...

 

Tea.

[Squ]

Verrry interesting.... so you're saying that the fact that I have a lot of mids in my amp EQ is causing like an EQ fight/cancelation with the Big Muff? And that a Fuzz face wouldn't have this problem?

[Virtual Jim]

Squ, are you using the black, green, or grey model? I've yet to hear a green one, but I think the blacks are all pretty muddy and small sounding. Regardless, I had to mix my last band's demo, where the other guitarist used said pedal with a Marshall Valvestate. It was hard to mix, especially since the guy that tracked it recorded the bass with a very mid-full DI bass sound ala Dark Side of the Moon, which was totally inappropriate for a band with a muff in it. Which clashed with the Muff's low-mid-y mud sound. Here are two suggestions for you from that experience:

 

1. Try boosting the presence after the pedal, either before the amp, in it, or in the loop. EQ pedal with somewhere between 4k-8k boosted to taste.

 

2. Put a compressor in the FX loop. Yeah, it sounds really dumb, but depending on your amp EQ settings, it might bring out some overtones that lets your rig cut through.

 

I do have to say you might want to ditch the Muff and/or Marshall rig. Marshall does its own thing with or without a Muff, and it's a good thing for certain opportunities, but it generally doesn't jive well with a muff. Marshall's known for it's honk/bite/whatever that weird upper stuff. The Muff for it's "low"-endness. Sounds like they'd be a good match, but you're left with an ultra-comfiltered sound, which is the problem. Unless you build the band's sound around that the Muff/Marshall tone, which is really hard to do unless you're in a one-guitar (ala Nebula) and/or dictator-lead band (ala Smashing Pumpkins) you're kind of screwed.

 

I've seen some guys get a really thick OD sound in stoner, metal, and rock bands with Sunn, VHT, and Bogner amps. So if that's at all an option, I think you should at least check it out.

 

Hope this helps.

[Squ]

I have the gray model, and I am in a 1-guitar band (though definitely not a dictator band). I've chosen to take out the muff from my live set up, I have plenty of options/levels as it is (Tube Screamer and the 2 Marshall Channels). For recording it, I guess I'll have to experiment! Thanks for all this insight from everyone.

[EmptinesOf Youth]

Jim, as i was reading your post i thought "didnt the pumpkins use muff with marshalls?" then you said that at the end. i dunno what im tryin to say but it was wierd

[Trucks]

Originally posted by Teahead:

The Big Muff sound has scooped mids, this is a huge part of why you're experiencing the trouble you are, especially coupled with the fact that you like to keep the amp's mids cranked. Try turning the amp's mids down to 3 or 4 and then kick in the Muff to see what the result is like.

 

There are modern 'clones' such as the Skreddy Mayo which can be ordered with flat mids, to give the Muff sound more presence.

 

Beyond that, you could add some kind of EQ following the Muff, but it's clumsy and difficult to switch both in/out together. I've hated every Muff I ever played and recommend you check out a Fuzz Face, something like the Analog Man Sun Face available as Germanium or Silicon. Or the London Fuzz variants for a more economical option.

 

The Fuzz Face is the Hendrix style fuzz, plenty of mids, with either fat & warm germanium transistors (early Jimi) or the sizzling extra gain of the silicon, as heard on later Jimi stuff like Woodstock & Band Of Gypsys. They also respond very nicely to volume & tone changes at the guitar, cleaning up and providing many shades of grit and bite and not just one fuzz sound, like the Muff has.

Germanium Fuzz Faces make me horny.

[Scott Fraser]

<>

 

The absolute worst recorded fuzz guitar sound I've ever heard is Smashing Pumpkins. Zero definition of notes or even pitches.

 

A friend gave me his old Big Muff Pi & I found it very hard to get anything I liked out of it. This is an original 60's model. There's a strange dynamic pumping going on, as if there's a bum noise gate in it. Sounds weird to me. It also requires an 18 volt power supply.

 

Scott Fraser

[EmptinesOf Youth]

i dunno, i guess you could say that about the guitar, but overall i think the bands sound comes off pretty powerful and does exactly what it was intended to do. I also think they were one of the only original bands in the spotlight in the 90's.

[Dr. Ellwood]

I was just thinking of when we (guitar community) at the time first became aware of the Big Muff Pi. It was something that all rock guitar players wanted to have, there where other boosters that plugged right into the guitar jack directly so you had this aluminum box hanging out of your guitar with a little dial on it for gain. Anyway I remember trying to use it on gigs and having it screaming back at me and going completely sonic! It wasn't very long untill most guys just gave up on it because it was so much trouble to control and your guitar never sounded anything like a the sounds on records...then we started having enough money to buy our first Marshall amps and everything was good! LOL.

[Squ]

I personally like the way it sounds for single notes, both low and high. Chords/Power chords sound only OK on it, it definitely doesn't feel as powerful as strait up distortion sounds. And the type of feedback/noise you can get out of the thing is amazing. Even when you are playing notes it sounds like the world is going to end, which I think is awesome.

[Virtual Jim]

Originally posted by Scott Fraser:

The absolute worst recorded fuzz guitar sound I've ever heard is Smashing Pumpkins. Zero definition of notes or even pitches.

Somewhat. But what you miss is the riffs still had elicited the correct emotional response. It still sounded like a punch to the chest, especially on Mellon Collie. Moreover, the low thickness of the guitars left plenty of room to let the tom overtones, cymbals, and Corgan's voice soar on top of it. The Pumpkins were really only Corgan & Chamberlain, and the sounds they got were great highlighting that.