What scales are played on what songs?

[owens hound]

Hey Guitar folks,

Jason here from the LowDown and I've got a question about what scales are played on what songs.

I've been learning a lot of theory for guitar and bass very recently (played guitar for over 20 years and bass for 3) and am in the process of putting it all together with both bass and guitar. I've read in other posts that some of you know are able to recognize the scales/modes that the guitar players are using for solos.

Can you give me some examples of song titles and the scale/mode they use for the solos? I'm hoping by listening to them, it will help be able to start recognizing them when I hear them in the future.

Any suggestions to be able to do this better would also be appreciated.

 

Many thanks,

 

Jason

[Gruupi]

Well, with the help of forum members, I now know that Miles Davis tune "So What" uses the dorian mode for soloing.

[owens hound]

Thanks Gruupi, I'll check that one out.

[Trucks]

I think Joe Satch almost exclusively uses Mixolydian.

[Jedro]

Originally posted by TheOtherLee:

I think Joe Satch almost exclusively uses Mixolydian.

Lydian, too.

 

Here's an easy one to pick out: Yngwie Malmsteen uses harmonic minor and phrygian dominant the majority of the time. Of course those two scales are essentially the same, just with different tonal centers.

 

I guess the downside is you'll have to listen to Yngwie.

[Gruupi]

Sorry but I had to laugh at Jedro's jab. I try not to disparage guitarists but Yngwie is such an easy target. Its not that he can't play, I just don't like his attitude. At that level of playing its all a matter of personal taste anyways.

[revolead]

Most metal is either in aeolian, mixolydian, or phrygian. However, you must understand that sometimes those tonal centers can be deceiving and a song is really in aeolian (standard minor) or ionian (standard major) and it just happens to start on a 5th or a 2nd instead of a typical tonic center such as a minor or major root. The only way to really be sure is to pick apart the song and look at its chord roots.

 

Having said that, most western (meaning not Indian or Chinese or whatever) music is written in standard major, minor, harmonic minor, and melodic minor scales. The church modes really only come into play in more complex jazz and other music based on jazz theory.

 

However, it's not to say they haven't been around for awhile. Bach wrote a very nice fugue in Dorian and many Romantic composers used the church modes as part of their composition.

[MILLO]

Originally posted by revolead:

The church modes really only come into play in more complex jazz and other music based on jazz theory.

Wrong statement.

[revolead]

Then when would you say the modes come into style?

[bluenote420]

Basically figuring out the mode or scale being used in piece is a combination of ear recognition and knowing what modes go with which styles. In general, rock and blues use pentatonic or mixolydian modes mostly, metal uses Aeolian, harmonic minor, chromatic, and diminished. Jazz uses a variety of modes, but some common ones are the dorian, lydian, and mixolydian and jazz will sometimes use a blues or pentatonic scale.

 

We could go into many other types of music, but i'm just sticking with thopse very common types. It's also good to learn some different scales and modes and familiarize yourself with their sound, then you may be able to recognize their sound without having to ask

 

Hope that helps,

 

Peace

[MILLO]

Off the top of my head: "Eleanor Rigby" is partly in the Dorian mode (at times, switching quickly to Aeolian). So are the verses on Metallica's "Fade to Black", as well as on Led Zeppelin's "Tangerine". The main theme of "Flying in A Blue Dream" by Satch is in the Lydian mode. The main theme of Coltrane's Impressions is in the Dorian mode. For non-Blues Mixolydian use, although related to the Blues, listen to stuff like the Beatle's "Day Tripper". The Simpsons theme starts off in the Lydian mode.

 

The Beatles used the Dorian and Mixolydian mode a lot.

 

Greensleeves is played a lot in the Aeolian mode, but I believe its "ancient" version is in the Dorian mode. That's the way I teach it, anyways, because it sounds good and b/c old transcriptions of it I've seen are writtenlike that. So are a lot of old folk songs from Europe and/or elsewhere (well... Dorian, Mixolydian, Lydian) from before jazz ever existed. Some folk music of North-Eastern Brazil, largely developed from old church chants, uses what now jazzers call the "Lydian flat-7th" mode, which is derived from the melodic minor scale (built upon the 4th degree from said scale).

[MILLO]

Originally posted by revolead:

Then when would you say the modes come into style?

Where do you think the term "church mode" comes from?

[revolead]

That's true. I forgot about folk songs. Many of those are in modes.

 

"Fade to Black" is in Dorian? Hmm, I guess the verses are. I never thought about that. They don't play the augmented 6th very much though, which is probably why I didn't realize that til now.

 

When I made my previous statement I was speaking for classical and more mainstream music. I suppose though, even with those genres, when you dig deep enough you can find modal stuff.

[MILLO]

Originally posted by revolead:

"Fade to Black" is in Dorian? Hmm, I guess the verses are. I never thought about that. They don't play the augmented 6th very much though, which is probably why I didn't realize that til now.

Don't want to come off as a hard-ass, but the term is 'major sixth'. Just trying to avoid confusion for the thread-starter. They don't hit that note that much in the recorded version, actually I think Hammett only hits it once in the little interlude solo between the verses. There no other f's in the melody. I've heard live versions where he adds more, making it more obviously Dorian.

When I made my previous statement I was speaking for classical and more mainstream music. I suppose though, even with those genres, when you dig deep enough you can find modal stuff.

I see. Yeah... the thing is what we know of as being "classical music" evolves from "church music" traditions. Thus, yup... some "classical" dudes (as coined by one of the first to use the word "classical" to refer to "old, high, good standards" in music, Arcangelo Corelli) were the first ones to use "modern church modes" in non-church music. From the Renaissance to the late 19th- and early 20th- century "classical" music, still from before Jazz had a "theory", composers were conciously using these modes. Obviously, they still are, but now there's something called "jazz theory".

 

These names are Greek, but in ancient Greek musical theory the modes are different. Some names have remained the same. Old theory was different, too... for example some ancient theorists said that war songs should be written in the Phrygian mode, since it inspires rage.

 

When the Europeans arrived to the Americas they brought their folk songs AND church songs. You can find "church modes" in everything from Afro-Hispanic stuff from the Caribbean, to popular music from Québec, to the Mixolydian riffs in a 12-bar blues in the Southern US, to Andean music, etc.

 

To make typical Western music theory a more universal affair adaptable to many different genres and traditions, now many people prefer to call them "modes from the major scale". I do.