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CHarrell

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    Have you gone from hardware stage keyboard to an iPad and controller setup for bread and butter piano/keyboard sounds? How did it go?

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    1 hour ago, kanefsky said:

     

    The buffer size is more related to where the audio processing is going on, not to simple digital-to-analog conversion.  If you're using the audio interface to handle some of the processing (e.g. parametric EQ, reverb, compression) then the limitations of the interface might require a larger buffer size.  If you're just using using an external DAC and doing all the processing inside the iPad then the buffer size would be related to how well the iPad is able to handle the processing and shouldn't be related to the DAC.  At least that's my understanding.

     

     

     

    Gotcha. So would this work as a USB MIDI hub?

     

    image.png.4bddb9acb6f076d3fd1180e2869c9ff4.png

    How would the connection chain work here?

     

    Keyboard  USB MIDI Out > UMC? (ES120 is solely USB and Bluetooth MIDI)

    iPad audio out > UMC (+plugging it in would allow iPad to receive MIDI messages?)

    controller

    Minilab controller USB or 5 pin MIDI Out > UMC?

    UMC audio out > external speaker

     

    Or would it be:

     

    Keyboard USB out, iPad USB, Minilab USB > USB hub > UMC > UMC audio out to external speakers

    Have you gone from hardware stage keyboard to an iPad and controller setup for bread and butter piano/keyboard sounds? How did it go?

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    4 minutes ago, kanefsky said:

    'm not sure an audio interface needs "mojo" to handle plugins :).

     

    Can't the power (or lack thereof) on USB Audio interfaces dictate things like latency and buffer size? For example, I had my CP88's Steinberg interface choke on audio before and pop and click (based on data I presume?), whereas my UMC interface seems to handle things much better. Similarly, my iPad chokes much easier when just using its own internal audio while plugged into my headphones vs having it connected to a USB interface.

    Have you gone from hardware stage keyboard to an iPad and controller setup for bread and butter piano/keyboard sounds? How did it go?

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    6 minutes ago, kanefsky said:

    You could also get one with a built-in audio interface for $20 to save you from having to have a separate audio interface:  https://www.amazon.com/Anker-PowerExpand-Adapter-Delivery-MacBook/dp/B096LV7W9D (the audio quality will probably be closer to a dedicated audio interface than many people would want to admit).

     

    Int-eh-resting! I know not all USB Audio interfaces are made equal--just discovered my Numa apparently doesn't have a dedicated one so I have to use Asio4All on it at least with laptop--does this one have the mojo to handle plugins well? How do you control things like level?

    Have you gone from hardware stage keyboard to an iPad and controller setup for bread and butter piano/keyboard sounds? How did it go?

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    4 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

     

     

    As BF's reply demonstrated, bend is not necessarily useless for organ or EP, etc.... but as I said it is not a common need, so I would not be shocked to find that a given software (or hardware) implementation of such instrument emulation doesn't respond to it.

     

    Is there a way to know from manuals or something if a hardware instrument supports these kinds of control messages? I wanted to get an ES120 to use as a software controller for weight/form factor and quality of sound, but to do what I want it looks like I'd need:

     

    1. Keyboard 

    2. USB Audio interface

    3. Pianoteq (yeah I've just been feasting on the demo this whole time) -

    4 .(5?) MIDI control surface that may or may not even have expression pedal, meaning I'd need another dongle for that

    6. AUM 

    7. potentially an app for effects like IFX

    8. a new iPad with the power to host these (would get the 9th gen that people have been recommending)

    9. potentially some kind of USB MIDI hub to connect all these control dongles together

     

    And at that point, would I really be saving any hassle vs. carrying a larger board? I could potentially just get a 520, a multieffects pedal like HX Effects or Stomp, and something like an old MSC2 for pitch bend and potential modulation, then just call that a day. 

    Have you gone from hardware stage keyboard to an iPad and controller setup for bread and butter piano/keyboard sounds? How did it go?

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    1 hour ago, kanefsky said:

     

    Pianoteq does support pitch bend, even on acoustic piano.  It can be controlled by a pitch bend wheel or by aftertouch, and I believe you can even bend multiple notes independently using polyphonic aftertouch.

     

    As for a hardware controller to supplement an ES110 or ES120, if you've got the bucks you could go with something like the Expressive E Touché.  If you're using Pianoteq or another VST, then by definition you don't need to care whether your keyboard can support direct input from the controller.  You can just plug them both into the computer or iPad.  You could also add standard pedals using a USB interface like a MIDI Expression

     

     

     

     

     

    Thanks for the recommendations! As you implied though, I was hoping for something more affordable than the Touche, and those pedal interfaces look like they're going to be available December at the earliest. Are there really so few means of adding control surfaces out there that don't cost hundreds of dollars? I feel like I'm making this too complicated, but I don't know of a simpler solution. 

    Have you gone from hardware stage keyboard to an iPad and controller setup for bread and butter piano/keyboard sounds? How did it go?

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Baldwin Funster said:

    The Description says it controls things that already support pitch bend. Vb3 for instance does not, Idk about pianoteq. The description also doesn't say its AUM compatible. So I'd day no, it won't work the way you want.

     

    Well, crap, guess that's another thing I have to have on the checklist. Am I making things too complicated?

    Have you gone from hardware stage keyboard to an iPad and controller setup for bread and butter piano/keyboard sounds? How did it go?

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    9 minutes ago, Baldwin Funster said:

    Funny you should mention pitchbend. That's the one app I haven't been able to find except some $80 thing that I forget the name of and so far I'm too cheap to buy. But yeah an AUM compatible app that is a pitch bender should be able to be controlled if it responds to CC. How a nanok fits into that is you connect the nanok to a USB hub that all your controllers are connected to ,with the other side connected to your iPad. In AUM all midi devices are recognized and you enable the nanok. Then you go through the midi learn processes. There might be extra difficulty with pitch bend because it's not usually just straight CC coming from the wheel of controllers, so the pitch bend app might not support CC control of that parameter. And if it did support CCs you'd have to set up a center return with MSB and LSB. And the nanokontrol doesn't have a wheel. You don't be better off buying a 25 key keylab or something. I realize this post went stream of consciousness somewhere but there it is.

     

    What about something like this?

     

    https://apps.apple.com/us/app/modwheels/id519468137

     

    https://apps.apple.com/us/app/pitchbend-pro/id1539228332

    Have you gone from hardware stage keyboard to an iPad and controller setup for bread and butter piano/keyboard sounds? How did it go?

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Baldwin Funster said:

    With AUM you can open a channel strip and assign a midi channel to it.

    In the same "session" you can open another channel strip and assign another midi channel to it. Or the same midi ch as the first one. I don't know the limitations but it's gonna be more than 10 or 12 channel strips.

     

    The channel strip allows you to put an AUMv3 compatible instrument app on it. And each channel strip allows you to put effects apps in line with the instrument. In fact you can put several effects on a channel and change the order. And this is just the start of the routing possibilities. What I described is aum 101.

    And there's more:

    You can use aum midi learn to assign knobs on your midi controllers to control aum parameters like channel volume.

    Or instrument parameters.

    Or effect parameters.

    Or more than one thing at the same time.

    And it's easy to do.

    Not to mention unlimited zones.

    Try all that with your HW rig.

    I'm sure you can get it done but not as easy and fast.

     

    That said I'm considering using a hardware board with an iPad organ app on the side.

    Why?

    I'm sick of the lousy key beds in midi controllers. Even my lowly DS61 has better action than any dedicated controller that's not $900 and with a nanokontrol I have 4 scenes of sliders,knobs, and switches which is 4 times as many controlls than any midi board I've seen.

     

    So I want to break this down,  are you saying I can find an app or something that can control pitch and modulation--I saw someone at some point link an app where it just looks like pitch bend and mod wheel--put that in AUM, then route those to whatever plugin I wanted that is also inside AUM, such an instance of Pianoteq? How would another controller, such as a nanokontrol--which I'd prefer to find an alternative for--fit into that?

    Have you gone from hardware stage keyboard to an iPad and controller setup for bread and butter piano/keyboard sounds? How did it go?

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    1 hour ago, JazzPiano88 said:

    It's interesting.   What people here are telling us is that simultaneously:

     

    a) HW manufacturers don't have the knowledge/expertise to produce the best sounds.

    b) VI manufacturers have solved all of the sonic reproduction problems and are superior, but don't have the resources to produce a HW platform.

     

    That is a complete load of Horse Shit.  

     

    I'm going with Al Quinn on this.  Show me the audio files.

     

     

    Frankly, I don't see what's so hard to believe here. Just to use a popular example, Vienna Symphonic Library's Yamaha CFX sample library takes 240 GB for its full arsenal. That's not even considering the system requirements to adequately run it. What dedicated hardware instrument could do that? Compare that to flagship Yamaha boards that sample a CFX...they're at what, 2 GB max? I don't know what kind of quantum science universe-shredding crap you'd have to pull to optimize a library of VSL's size and detail into any hardware board unless you basically just plopped a straight fully-gutsed computer into the body of a keyboard...and at that point, what is the point? Some software developers have of course branched into hardware, such as Arturia and IK Multimedia, but their hardware offerings are typically things you won't find in their software lineup, probably because they think it'd be a diminishing ROI to put, say, their range of modelled synths in a hardware body as opposed to offloading that component onto users such as ourselves and being able to focus solely on creating and distributing their software.

     

    I'm not sayin this to diss hardware, I much prefer the simplicity of setup and use, and again can appreciate that hardware boards can and often tailor their soundset to really sing in a live environment in a way that VI developers seem not to. I'm just tryin to be objective.

    Have you gone from hardware stage keyboard to an iPad and controller setup for bread and butter piano/keyboard sounds? How did it go?

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    I was able to check out a bunch of keyboards last week, from the FP series, P515, new Casio PXS, PX5S, M-Audio Hammer, you name it. (Turns out some of my local stores carried more than their websites claimed!)

     

    And I gotta admit, I plugged my iPad into the Kawai ES110 and 120, and wow what an immediately gratifying experience. Pianoteq felt really good on them (moreso the 110 but they're getting strangely hard to find secondhand and at this point I want to futureproof a purchase), and the form factor/weight are great. Hell, to be honest, even the sounds themselves I thought would be pretty gig-worthy with a good effects pedal, but NO. CLAV! Whyyyyyyyyy? 😭

     

    Anyways, so I'd most likely want to use the ES as an iPad controller. Of course, the perennial dilemma is that there is no modulation or pitch, and I don't know if an expression pedal is compatible with it either. The PX560 offers these, but I decided I prefer the Kawai action. So what's the best way to add more modulation capabilities to the ES? I've come across niche products from indie developers that have limited supply, and some old-school solutions like the Yamaha MCS2, but is there another, low-cost solution to control the iPad sounds with a control surface of some kind? I'm open to easy software solutions (I see Yamaha used to make an app with this function, but discontinued it several years ago), but I wouldn't know how to rig that up in the control chain with the ES.

     

    ES120 > iPad via bluetooth or USB MIDI (can't use both simultaneously apparently)...would the USB MIDI go through the interface? (gonna get a Behringer UphoriaHD) > audio interface to external speakers

     

    Would the hypothetical controller app be hosted in something like this AUM I see everyone talking about?

     

    And is there really NO clav sound on here? It's so premium only the 5 and 920 can hold its majesty?

    New Studiologic Numa X Piano

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    On 8/9/2023 at 11:15 PM, CyberGene said:

    The Numa X pianos sound much better than Pianoteq IMO but I’m notorious for disliking PT. I wouldn’t bother with external hardware/software pianos when the onboard pianos are more than serviceable. Same for Rhodes.

     

    I didn't comment on this but in my testing these past few days I am really impressed by how well calibrated the pianos are to the TP110.

    • Like 1

    Have you gone from hardware stage keyboard to an iPad and controller setup for bread and butter piano/keyboard sounds? How did it go?

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    12 hours ago, Baldwin Funster said:

     

    When you find the app at apples app store, the listing will show what ios is needed to run it. The mini4 stops at something like ios 13. The listing sometimes will detect your iPad and say runs on this iPad. I have a mini4 and it runs alot of stuff but it's right on the edge of needing big buffers and having latency. 

     

    IFX Rack at Apple Store

     

     

    My mini4 is on iOS 15.something, so it should be okay. If you're using a mini4, are you able to use a keys app with effects like IFX in AUM with no issues? I seem to have polyphony issues with Korg Module and I don't know if that's a hardware issue or not.

    New Studiologic Numa X Piano

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    4 minutes ago, kanefsky said:

    If you simply adjusted for overall US inflation the PX-S3000 would be over $1000 today (possibly more since chips have experienced more shortages that most other things).  So bringing out a significantly improved model for $1199 isn't that bad.

     

    But the 3100 was the top of that generation, where the equivalent here is the 7000, which is almost 3x the current cost of the 3100. And after playing it last night, I wouldn't with good conscience tell people it's worth that gulf (though the piano and Rhodes did sound good). I really wanted to love it, especially after the praise I've seen it get from a number of clearly skilled musicians.

    New Studiologic Numa X Piano

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    21 minutes ago, kanefsky said:

     

     

     

    Here's a review from Stu at Merriam Music comparing the two actions

     

     

     

     

    Yeah I've watched that and to be honest I think reviews like this got me too hyped. If someone asked me what the better deal would be between the two, I would say the 3100 without hesitation. It is _nutso_ that _this_ is what Casio decided is worth the big bucks. The alternatives, both in this price range and, shucks, lower, smoke this thing like cocktail weenies.

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