GRollins

Yep, I started a thread on that the other day. Grey

Important distinction: The Behringer Model D is available now. The Kobol--assuming that previous timings hold true--is probably not going to hit the streets for two to three years. Place your bets accordingly. Grey

Actually, the thing I need most is time & peace and quiet. I'm up to my butt in alligators and having my family underfoot 24/7 has really put a dent in my music and writing time. I would have wished for more time even before the lock down, but I haven't had time without interruptions since last winter and that's a real bummer. We're all well (as far as I know...my wife went out for groceries this morning and I'm hoping she didn't bring back germs), so I guess that's the most important thing. Just wish these bloody germs would go away. Grey

Face it, they're all toys. Some are more affordable. Some are more practical. Some are more collectable. But in the end, they're all just physical doo-dads designed to give you pleasure. Find one that hits as many of your buttons as possible and decide whether you can afford it...or at least justify the cost to yourself and anyone else you might be answerable to. On a bang for the buck basis, I'd have to say I get the most out of my Behringer Model D, but it requires an external keyboard--or at least it does for the way I play it. I suppose you could use a sequencer or whatever. All the other key/synth thingies I've got cost more than the D, both on a relative and an absolute basis. Some of them I like better than the D, but given the cost of a D, it's the value champ, especially if you pick one up used. Grey

I'd never even heard of it prior to this. Given the time lapse between other Behringer announcements and the finished product finally being available for sale, it will probably be a while before it's on the streets. Grey

My Little Phatty and Voyagers have patch memory of analog settings, so it can be done...but at what price? With the Behringer 2600 priced at $600, would you be willing to pay 2X?...3X? the price to have that sort of functionality? Many would, I know, but it would also begin to limit the potential market. It's a pity there's no way to rig an external unit to handle the task. At the moment I'm feeling a bit on the grumpy side (due to things unrelated to synths), so I'm not sure I'd buy a 2600...only...in my heart I know I'll get back to wanting one as soon as I get past my current mood. Grey

Speaking solely for myself, there's no one sound that I want to emulate. It's more a matter of different sounding filters, relative to my other gear. Wait, didn't Jean Michel Jarre use a 2600? Oh, and Joe Zawinul. Yeah...okay...maybe there are some specific sounds I want to fiddle with. Richard Wright? Did he use a 2600? Anyway, somewhere down that road there are sounds that are different from the sounds I have now. That would be a fun starting point. Sure it would be nice to have patches at your fingertips, but some damned fine music was made by guys who actually used knobby synthesizers to...you know...twiddle knobs! What a weird and exciting concept! Emerson in particular thought it was an essential part of his performance that people saw him manipulating his sound in real time. Grey

I'm interested in the Behringer 2600. It's finally achieved pre-order status, but I'm going to wait until the bloody thing starts shipping to ante-up. Depending on how you look at it, I've either been waiting forty years for a 2600 or about three or four years--since whenever Uli first mentioned it. I figure I can wait another month or three. Wouldn't mind a Eurorack mixer, but no one seems to make what I want, so I'll likely build it myself. The design would be a trivial exercise. The thing is that you can buy finished units cheaper than it costs to buy the pots and knobs, and it would save me a butt-load of time...although I enjoy electronics, so it would be a fun project. Other than that, I'm actually pretty stable in terms of what I want vs. what I already have. Grey

I think it's been pretty clear. Note that despite my status, I don't enforce policies on this general forum, I leave it to dB, who does it well. If there are times when something that violates the below gets by, it's likely because he didn't see it. He doesn't visit all the threads all the time and counts on us to keep an eye on the place. If you think there's a violation, report it or ask him. From the READ BEFORE POSTING: Forum Policies thread: Oh, I understand the reasoning, but what happened is that I posted something relating to Musician's Friend, which earned a quick response from dB. Fair enough. But...there were two--or was it three?--threads active at that very moment that referenced Sweetwater. When I mentioned that to dB, he made grumbly noises. The Sweetwater threads stayed up. My Musician's Friend thread vanished. I later had the same thing happen again, after which I gave up trying to understand. I gather that Sweetwater has preferred status hereabouts and that others need not apply. Both times were around the Black Friday/X-mas/Year end clearance period (like now) when things go on sale and I was just trying to put things out there so others would be aware of items on sale. I remember one of my threads as being about the little Yamaha keyboards; someone had mentioned that they were interested in the Hammond(?) version and I thought they--and others--might want to know that MF had them on sale for an attractive price for Black Friday. I don't remember what product the other thread was about, but I think it was also MF. Again, there were active threads relating to Sweetwater at the same time, and I knew for a fact the dB was aware, because he had posted in one of them. I don't work for Musician's Friend...or any other retailer. In fact, I'm retired and don't work at all, unless you count my writing and that has nothing to do with music. I've done business with Sweetwater, Musician's Friend, Perfect Circuit, et. al. and have had pleasant experiences with all. I have no axe to grind regarding one outlet over another. I'm not mad. It's just one of those things. Grey

As I've noted before, I've never really understood the policy about referencing vendors and products; it seems unevenly enforced. That said, I'd like to note that if you add sucrose to dihydrogen monoxide, you end up with the name of a company that...er...well, they sell things of a musical nature. As of this morning, they now list the Behringer 2600 as being available for pre-order at $599.00. No information as to when the item will actually be shipping. Something I don't understand: They say that price is reduced from $699.99. I thought something on the order of $600 was the price all along, but what do I know...I am only an egg. As of this writing, the 2600 does not yet show on any of my other go-to vendor websites. Perhaps further research will reveal other sources. I'm sure the other places will catch up sooner rather than later. Yes, I've seen things that indicate that the 2600 has been available elsewhere in the world, but this is the first time I've seen anything here in the United States. Grey

Please don't say anything foolish like, "Man, 2021 HAS to be better than 2020...it couldn't possibly be worse!" 2021 might be listening. Note that we haven't had a major war this year, we haven't been invaded by evil aliens, and Justin Bieber is not on tour. 2021 might foist any or all of those things upon us, so don't tempt fate...okay? Grey

Everything I've seen indicates that it was Jon Anderson's concept and that he talked Steve Howe into it with varying degrees of reluctance, depending on which version of the story you hear. The two of them talked the rest of the band into going along. Wakeman, famously, was very reluctant and ended up leaving the band over T.O. Blame Jon. Grey

I've heard that as well and if I'm honest, I can say that Punk might have had a point. Grey

There. Fixed it for ya. Okay, Relayer has its moments, but just as a single album, I would take sides 1 and 2 of Topographic over the 2 sides of Relayer. Minority opinion I suppose. I'm not sure how to state this clearly online, because I'm accustomed to waving my hands in the air and gesticulating when I try to describe this sort of thing, but here goes... I'm not much taken with New Age/Ambient music. A little goes a long way for me. I'm not against it per se, but it never really seems to go anywhere. There's this perpetual sense that something is about to happen, but it never really does. The music never resolves into this huge, impressive crescendo where you get a triumphant feeling that, "Yes! This is where we were going all along!" There's never a reason to pump your fist in the air and feel that someone has manged, through the magic of music, to articulate one of the elemental truths of the universe. There are numerous places in Topographic Oceans where I get the same feeling. It sounds like it's winding up to start to commence to begin to initiate to...never mind, it tapered off and went to sleep. I expect more energy from Yes. A more emphatic statement. More rock, dammit! Stand up, boys! Be counted! Let's have a little testosterone, even if it's phrased in oblique, mystical, "Mountains come out of the sky and stand there" ways. There are some wonderful ideas in Topographic Oceans, but they're not developed. There's also the fact that there's not much of the challenging, odd-time signature, virtuoso playing that I want to hear from Yes. Impress me. Make me want to sit down and work out what they did and how they did it, picking the notes out one-by-one until I master the riff and achieve my own sense of triumph at being able to follow in their footsteps. Lead and I will follow. No, it's more, "Get up, man. Get up! Quit resting. We've got miles to go and you're sitting on a log beside the path." It's mostly just mundane things, glued together with a ho-hum, "I suppose this will work. At least it's in the right key," attitude. Must have been the cow in the studio that did it. Don't get me wrong. I don't hate Topographic Oceans. There's not enough substance there to hate; it'd be like trying to hate a vagrant breeze for not being a stronger wind. It's just that I keep feeling that--especially after having just come off of Close To The Edge--I had expected and hoped for more. Much, much more. Grey

Then it's likely that I've seen that keyboard as I saw Yes on the Relayer tour in November of '74. I sometimes wonder what might have happened if Moraz had remained with Yes. All things considered, I preferred Wakeman, but Relayer was an interesting album and (at least for me) an improvement over Topographic Oceans. Grey

I ran a bass though my Little Phatty one afternoon. Took a lot of fiddle-factor to get it going, but it was interesting once I got the kinks worked out. No, I've not felt the need to do it again, but it's in the back of my mind now as a possibility in case I need unusual effects. Grey

There's music everywhere now...it's just elevator music with an attitude. Grey

Yes, I still like the stuff I listened to when I was in my teens, but I have two other comments: 1) I listen to rock, jazz, and classical. They're on some sort of glacially slow cycle in the deep parts of my psyche. I don't know what drives the cycle. If I'm listening to one genre, then that's pretty much all I listen to at that time. I immerse myself in it (almost) completely. Right now, I'm listening to rock, but I sense that the cycle may be shifting to--probably--classical. Note that I only play rock/prog/fusion jazz. That doesn't change. What changes is the external influence on how I perceive and compose music. 2) The radio stations around here are pathetic. I missed Metallica when they first started up. Now that they're played on the local "classic rock" station, I hear them and find some elements of their music interesting. Don't much care for the growled vocals, but the instrumental parts can be very good at times. Other than Dire Straights, Metallica is probably the only music from the '80s that I can tolerate. Mark Knopfler is a friggin' genius. But the '80s were a complete, wasted, desert. Then came the '90s and mirabile dictu, Grunge showed up. There was some worthy stuff in there. Other than Grunge the rest of the '90s was largely empty. My point here being that I'm not totally closed off. There are things that work for me, but they're so rare that I'm not statistically wrong to say that music after the mid-to-late '70s was dead. Less than 1% of all the new releases between, say, 1977 and today worked for me. The ones that did were welcome surprises, but surprises nonetheless. Statistically, they're still flukes. I wish it was otherwise. Grey P.S.: Before anyone starts prattling on about how great the '80s were musically, I defy anyone to tell the following apart without a dramatis personae in hand: --Twisted Sister --Skid Row --Motley Crue --Scorpion --Bon Jovi --Poison --Nazareth and--arguably--AC-DC, although their screechy vocals do tend to set them apart a bit. Instrumentally and thematically, though, they're pretty much the same as the above. And there are other bands that fit that same mold that I can't remember at the moment. They all sound the same. After the '70s, rock became far too formulaic and predictable. Find a sound that sells and clone it ad infinitum, ad nauseum and people will buy it and go to the concerts. Prodigious quantities of money were made. But did it represent any sort of musical progress? Black leather/spandex and Marshall cabinets stacked three high (3/4 of them false fronts, just as stage props) do not constitute musical innovation. As accessories, they're neutral, but when theater overwhelms the music, there ain't nuthin' left, and the music becomes empty posturing.

On sequencers: If you're going to get just one sequencer, get one with a random function. I've got a Winter Modular Eloquencer that allows an insane amount of control over the randomness; it sets boundaries as to how much things can change. Lots, medium, only a little...and in what ways it's allowed to change...pitch, duration, etc. The bloody thing knows scales--lots of them (and I think you can code your own...?). Tell it you're in Eb harmonic minor and it's there waiting for you. If I only had one sequencer and all it could do was 1-2-3-4, 1-2-3-4, 1-2-3-4, I'd be saying, "What's the point?" Mind you, I've got one of those, but if I'm going to do something more interesting, it's the Eloquencer that gets cabled up. Incidentally, it'll chain for forever. My other one's only good for, like, eight or sixteen steps or something. Boring. The reason I keep it around is that it's easier to change on the fly than the Eloquencer. The Eloquencer's expensive. I'm not saying you have to get that one (and the learning curve's a bitch--I still don't claim to know everything it can do), but there are others out there that will do random. Consider one for anything other than the most ordinary beeps and boops. Otherwise save your money for another module, because you'll only get frustrated with one that's too basic for what you hear in your head. Note #1: I only use a sequencer, maybe, one out of four tunes? One out of five? And honestly, I only use one because I can't find anyone to play with. If I had a human, I'd leave it to him/her to do the whatever-it-is-that-the-sequencer-is-doing. Should I be so lucky as to find someone who wants to play original things, then the sequencers will start gathering dust. Note #2: I NEVER use a sequencer to play something a human couldn't play. By this, I mean those riffs that are played at light speed, just because the hardware can cycle that fast. Fuck that. I want music that a human can play. Music that sounds as though a human played it--even if they're a little stilted in their playing style. Fringe benefit: If lightning strikes and I find someone to play with, they can learn the part and play it with their own two hands and/or feet. For me, sequencers are just--don't blush--sex toys. They're stand-ins because I don't have the real thing, you know what I mean? They're fake. I know they're fake. You know they're fake. If the real thing shows up, the fake goes in the closet... Grey

I'm on the run, but would like to note in passing that had synthesizers.com, et. al. been a little cheaper (new) or a little more widely available (used on eBay/Reverb/CL), I could easily started down that path instead of Euro. Bigger knobs would be nice. I honestly don't find a lot of Euro stuff attractive to look at and some of the design graphics are so badly designed as to be unreadable; some of the pieces are very poorly designed ergonomically. (I'm looking at you, Make Noise! Although there are others who are just as bad.) I don't need "attitude," I need a device that gets out of the way and lets me make music. Synthesizers.com's stuff is tidy, legible, and makes sense to me. Who knows...I may yet start a separate Moog-style rack at some future date. No, I haven't looked closely at Behringer's modular reissues yet. Grey

Music is part of the entertainment industry. If some people get a charge out of making beeps and boops, then presumably they're getting their money's worth and the hardware has served its purpose. I prefer melodies, myself. Grey

We're not going to eat her. The menu for the next few days is already set... Grey

I see a butt-load of things in here I'd like to respond to, but the background noise/commotion level here is preventing me from keeping focus long enough to organize my thoughts properly. I'm going to try to do this on the installment plan. --I got started with Euro for two reasons. One being because it gives me total flexibility; the difference (for those who know computer programming) between programming in Assembly/Assembler vs. a higher level language. Power incarnate, but you've got to be willing to go into detail to get what you want. --The other reason was that I wanted to plug an LFO signal into a point on my Voyager where there was no there, there. With modular stuff (whether Euro, Moog, or otherwise), you've got the ability to patch anything into anything. Anywhere. Anytime. You're the architect--build it the way you want it. --Speaking only for myself, I have no use for bleeps and bloops. I treat Euro as though it's another Moog (I've got four Moog products). Sure it needs tuning. What Moog doesn't? (Okay, okay, my Little Phatty has an autotune function that actually works pretty well--not perfect, but close.) --I have a Korg tuner in the rack. I use it. No hu-hu, Lulu. --Those who want presets and such should obviously look elsewhere. Be happy with your stuff. Go forth and make music your way. I suspect that as Euro matures, we'll see more and more gear with memory. I've got a couple of items with memory, but most don't. It's no worse than a Moog. If you can live with a Moog, you can live with Euro. Rick Wakeman managed. Keith Emerson managed. Good music ensued. --I have spoken elsewhere about my "deep oscillator" concept. This is a no-brainer if you want richer sounds: Use a Moog (or other synth of your choice) to get as close as you can, then trigger some extra VCOs, etc., via MIDI to get the sound you want. Those who think two or three oscillators are all you need to get any sound imaginable will not get much out of this idea, but it sure works for me. Or you can build what you want entirely within the Euro rack, then bring it out as a completed sound. --I've got five or six 84HP/19" rack adapters. They're mostly full. However, my Euro rig has been stable for quite some time. I don't feel the need to join the Oscillator-Of-The-Month-Club. So much for the bottomless pit theory. Yes, you can play the game that way if you want, it's just that I don't really feel the need to do so to get where I want. --I like the ability to buy what I need and only what I need. I don't much get off on the sound of a ring modulator, so I've not bought one. In that sense, it's actually cheaper. --Yes, the knobs are smaller--I wish they were larger, but I've gotten used to it. Yes, the signal levels are higher than "normal" synths. It's a manageable problem. --I've got two sequencers. They're so different that it's hard for me to look at them as being the same class of module. I don't always do sequencers, but when I do I want to be able to choose the right tool for the job. Be careful with your choice(s) and you'll be happy. Choose unwisely and you'll forever be frustrated. More later when the craziness abates. They're just brought one of our ducks into the foyer to spend the night in the house. The critter seems to be sick, so they want to keep her warm and where they can keep an eye on her. Yes, ducks poop. No, it doesn't smell good, but if you've got livestock, you take care of them on an as-needs basis, so we've got a duck in the house on X-mas Eve. Get over it. I'll stick a clothespin on my nose if it gets too bad. At least, being sick, she's rather subdued and isn't quacking much. Ducks can be rather loud. And that's in addition to the usual amount of pre-Santa energy. Oi! Grey

I could have gone all day without being reminded of Boone's Farm... Grey

I should be used to the idea that we're going to lose people at a regular rate--simply due to age, if nothing else. Add cancer, etc. and...dammit, I'm NOT used to it. These guys we're losing were supposed to live forever, you know? Grey