SamuelBLupowitz
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Posts posted by SamuelBLupowitz
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17 hours ago, mate stubb said:
To put Steve's point in perspective: I think some of us older players feel a bit like we are the last generation of organists, and it becomes our duty to try to pass on what we have learned by encouraging newer players to spend a bit of time at it.
A great way to ensure the death of an instrument, or a style of music, is to dismiss inquisitive minds when they ask for help. I owe my continued musical life to more experienced players willing to share what they've learned with me.
"Get off my lawn" helps no one.
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57 minutes ago, Steve Nathan said:
This approach just continues to blow my mind. Is it really so difficult to spend a little time with your instrument, pull some drawbars in and out and learn what sounds good to your ears?
None of the players you wish to emulate did what you're doing to become the iconic players you so admire. Besides, drawbar settings are only a SMALL part of the overall sounds on the records you like. Leslie models, tubes, microphones, room acoustics, differences from Hammond to Hammond......... The components of the great, "Classic" organ tones are vast. Once again I will yell into the empty canyon.......... Use your ears, not your eyes!
Steve, the way I see it is players want to come here and talk to people who have more experience than them, who may have gone through some of the same searches for sounds they love, and compare notes, or even be invited into a community of people on an ongoing path of growth. We're not all professional gigging or recording musicians here. Some people want to spend more time connecting with their instrument, but are frustrated by the lack of a clear path from what they love and what they know how to achieve. "A little time with your instrument" means different things to different people, when that time has to be balanced against day jobs, family commitments, and the general exhaustion that comes from living in this world.
We all learn differently. For some of us, having a visual/technical reference to a sound we recognize can be a huge "a ha" moment for connecting the ear to the fingers or the eyes. That can help us more efficiently use our practice time in the future, so that we have some guidelines for how to achieve certain types of sounds, rather than just fumbling at random with the connections we've made in isolation.
I don't think there should be any shame in asking for guidance or resources from more experienced players, rather than forcing oneself to live or die by trial and error. If there were, none of us would be lucky enough to talk to players like you on this forum.
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Some favorites I've used/learned over the years that I haven't seen mentioned in this thread yet:
888800000 - A more "rock" version of the classic 888000000. That second white drawbar gives it a little more brightness and power, and you'll hear this (or variations with a liiiittle bit of sparkle from some of the upper drawbars to taste) on a lot of rock and roll recordings from the late 60s and 70s. Think Faces, Heartbreakers, etc.
880000880 - learned this from an Andy Burton article -- it's the Al Green setting! Listen to "Love and Happiness" and see what I mean. C3 chorus brings this to life, as does (if available) a healthy dose of swimmy reverb.
448808333 - I swiped this from watching a live video of Marcus King Band (it was the keyboard player from the self-titled record, whose name escapes me; they've gone through several). A great pad sound with a lot of character that stays out of the way of the thicker frequencies of the guitars. I'll pull out the first two drawbars all the way to beef things up going into a chorus or if I'm taking a solo. The positions of the "lesser" drawbars on this one are not exact; as always, season to taste. More or less of the lower ones for fatness, more or less of the upper ones for sparkle and brightness.
800000008 - reggae, baby! A nice hollow sound for pads, stabs, bubbles, wherever you see fit -- kinda spooky, and another one that's good for being audible while carving out a lot of space for guitars or horns. I'll sometimes give this a little more presence by pulling out some adjacent drawbars to create a sort of "frowny face" shape. It's not as "pure" sounding, but it cuts a little bit better while still giving you that scooped-out quality.
008000000 - this is the classic One Headlight sound, which Rami Jaffee used on the Wallflowers hit. It's soft and simple, but sometimes exactly what a tune needs, especially if you're playing fills overtop of a gentler guitar-driven song.
And when things get really big and shouty, don't be afraid to go for the big, screaming 888888888 with C3 chorus and Leslie on fast! Billy Preston will thank you for it.
Other little tricks I've learned: pulling some drawbars in and out (while changing the Leslie speed, if applicable) is a great way to get things simmering under a long pad or a build, or just to create tension. I *love* manipulating drawbars in real time to create a sense of motion or change, especially if the arrangement is calling for more sustained chords or notes. A lot of the time, if you're not covering bass parts, your left hand is better spent adjusting settings or playing percussive smacks and smears, rather than playing notes lower down on the keyboard. Organ notes take up a *lot* more space than piano, especially in the low register.
Some of this may be old news to you, but since you mentioned you're relatively new to having an organ-centric board, I thought I'd share some things I stumbled upon over the years that really helped me transition from "piano player who can cover other sounds" to "Hammond guy."
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I have the XT upgrade, as well as a very early model (before they had any of the extra electric piano sounds) that I use as a backup/home practice board. I've never had any trouble with either of them, knock on wood. I've gigged the XT pretty heavily since 2019.
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I think amp sims are a really exciting technology, and it's been cool to hear them evolve. A singer-songwriter-guitarist friend of mine used virtual amps for his entire 2017 LP, and it certainly wasn't a distraction or a problem for a casual listener, but I know my wife and I could definitely hear the character/artifacts of that choice. I don't know if I would now.
When I was still gigging out with my Wurli and Clav, Mainstage's tube amp sims were certainly close enough sonically to outweigh having to carry a Fender amp around on top of the heavy, ornery electromechanical boards!
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I remember in one of the other organ threads that someone (@Outkaster?) was explaining the differences in approach between jazz organists, who generally play bass on the lower manual and melodies on the upper, and gospel organists, who generally do the reverse (and also tend lean more heavily on the pedals for basslines).
I'm always interested in how these tendencies and approaches develop for different styles of music. It's always felt more natural to me to play basslines on the lower manual (because the drawbars for the lower manual are more convenient for my right hand to grab, and because it's physically closer to the pedals), but since I started using a synth for the basslines in my organ trio, I'm now reaching up for the left hand bass anyway...
55 minutes ago, Baldwin Funster said:When they call them Great and Swell I forget which is which anyways.
Same! I mean, it basically means the same thing when someone tells you your playing is great or when they tell you your playing is swell, am I right...? 😉
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Wow, I had totally forgotten that I started this thread two years ago. What a treat to come back and see all this encouragement and spirited discussion.
After two years of intermittent writing and rehearsing, plus a healthy, healthy dose of pandemic- and other-project-related distraction, this trio -- now formally dubbed Pocket Bandits -- has kicked itself back into gear, with our first gig since August of '21 on the docket for tonight, and some others booked for the coming months. Hoping to start recording some of the original material we've been working on in the coming months as well; we have a nice setup in my home studio for recording in our practice space!
Feeling excited, proud, and a little nervous to hit the stage with this project again. Some of the more terrifying material has revealed itself to be incredibly fun after I put in the necessary time in the woodshed. Instrumental music has never been my focus; I've almost always accompanied singers, even when that singer is me. It's been a treat to stretch my musicianship with such wonderful players.
Including a few little promo snippets below. Give us a follow on the old Facebook/Instagram/TikTok if you frequent those parts of the internet. I feel lucky to have the support and enthusiasm of such a great group of keyboard players around me!
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I'm in central New York state -- we've got Spedies here (pronounced "speedy"). For those of you not in the know, that's basically a sub with grilled chicken that was marinated in a very specific blend of Italian dressing that's just known as "Spedie Sauce" around here. They're delicious. If you head west from us, Rochester has the Garbage Plate...
That said, I'm a transplant. I grew up in eastern Pennsylvania, not too far from Philadelphia, and my only gripe about leaving that area is that it's so hard to find a decent cheesesteak around here. I've found some very delicious steak sandwiches among the total disappointments, but very rarely does anyone in this area get that specific combination of bread, meat, and cheese *right.*
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1 hour ago, stoken6 said:
The action on the VR700 (and the earlier VR760) made it super-desirable.
Ah, yes, *that's* the model I had -- the VR760.
1 hour ago, stoken6 said:Nord Electro (depending on your definition of "moderately-tweakable") or Stage, and Hammond SK73 are today's contenders.
Yes, a far cry from the $500 I paid for that used Roland! 🤣
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3 minutes ago, Dave Number Four said:
I always have a mild sensation of relief when setting up for a gig and I get things up and running enough to make a sound. And the quick boot time of my YC helps get that faster!
Since I started running direct and using in-ears, adding a monitor box with a separate output/control for just the keys mix has really lessened my anxiety. Nothing like having the whole rig set up, but having to wait until the monitor guy is doing his line checks to be able to tell if I have everything plugged in and making sound...
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I posted about this over on the Repairs subforum, but I thought posting here as well might be helpful. Has anyone else had issues with the reverb and delay sections on their CPs cutting in and out? Something happened between my last two gigs with my CP88 where the toggle switches still work, but jostling the keyboard (which includes, you know, playing it) causes the reverb and delay effects to rapidly toggle themselves on and off (you can see the LEDs flickering), which, as you can imagine, is incredibly annoying to the ear.
If anyone else has had to deal with this issue, let me know. I have a feeling a trip to my tech is inevitable.
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Saw this semi-recent resurrection of this zombie thread; made me miss my VR-700 (it's still around, just in the custody of a bass player I worked with a lot before the pandemic). Mine was in pretty rough shape when I bought it, used, for $500 at the local music store, and it only got more raggedy; by the time I replaced it (also with a Nord Electro 4D) its pitch would waver at random, and if the volume knob got jostled you could lose output entirely.
But it was my first real gigging organ, and I do miss having a 70-something key board with a waterfall action that I could actually cover an entire gig with (that means organ, piano, electric piano, clav, and even some moderately-tweakable synth patches). Plus, when I used the D-Beam controller to change the Leslie speed, everyone thought I was using The Force. A great axe!
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Wondering if anyone else has run into this issue with the newer CP models, or if I just did something to mine...
The delay and reverb sections on my board are having some kind of issue where they turn on and off, usually when they're being jostled (which happens constantly when playing the board). The switches still function, but the LEDs are flashing on and off intermittently of their own accord, so the only reasonable stopgap is to manually run the delay and the reverb all the way down on my presets, which is a real bummer.
Would love to hear if anyone has run into this issue and if there's an easy resolution. I'll probably just take it in to my tech when I have enough time between gigs.
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This brings to mind a quote from an interview with Derek Trucks I heard once and think of often. I'll paraphrase here to the best of my ability:
"The true greats are usually very humble and kind. It's the mediocre-to-good players you have to watch out for."
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Hi friends,
I picked up a pair of EV 664 dynamic mics off of a local studio owner some months back. Well, he advertised them as 665s, not 664s, which is why my research hadn't turned up that they don't take a regular XLR cable, just this weird four-pin situation:
https://www.coutant.org/ev664/index.html
But I knew the guy and we have a lot of mutual friends and collaborators, so I didn't think twice about it when he said he "knew he had the adapters around somewhere," and that he'd ship me new ones if he couldn't find them. Then he went to rehab. Then he stopped returning my messages. Lesson learned.
But I'd still really like to use the mics...
Here's an adapter that is no longer available:
https://www.ebay.com/p/1883769407?iid=303029395419
I haven't been able to find much else. Anyone know what my easiest path forward is for getting an XLR out of these? I know it is apparently not a difficult solder job to make an adapter cable but... that's not really a can of worms I want to open up. Any advice would be appreciated!
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I follow the delightfully snarky and very informative recording engineer Wil Anspach on TikTok. This morning he had some pointers for how to turn your $14,000 car into a $50,000 car that I thought would elicit some nods from the members of this forum…
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Just now, CyberGene said:
Well, depends on if you ask us or him, because we can enjoy some of the finest music on earth but he died poor 😀
Good point! Maybe pointing to the record label advances of the latter half of the 20th century would be better -- another example of, perhaps, not the fairest deal, but I think the point is that artists want to make art and need funding to do it. That's part of why it's so hard to get musicians to collectively bargain, I suspect (though writers seem to be particularly good at it).
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7 minutes ago, CyberGene said:
BTW, I'm not sure how paying for an original content works but I think that may not work well for music. I mean, it would be like you are ordering/paying musicians to make some music. How can that guarantee that they are creative and give their souls to make something good?
I mean, it generally seemed to work for Mozart.
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I'm seeing a lot of "it won't work for this reason" comments, regarding different systems (education, corporate regulation, consumer expectations), and all I will say on the matter is that I think it's very clear that all of these issues are very much connected, and very much human-made, and therefore can (with great effort and intense organization and significant struggle against the powers that be and a lot of luck) be undone and remade. That's a really easy big-picture stance I can take; I'm not coming into this thread with a point-by-point because what we are talking about at some level, minuscule or global, is a revolution. So... no small ask.
But to paraphrase Ursula Le Guin, the divine right of kings once seemed a given, and an insurmountable one. So I haven't given up on humanity, or its thirst for art and culture.
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18 minutes ago, Floyd Tatum said:
Oh yeah, I forgot about him. Ok, I'll re-phrase my question to:
Who was the first straight male rock musician or singer to do the androgynous thing?
David Bowie's dead, so you can't take it up with him about how "straight" Mick Jagger actually is...
Coincidentally, happy Bisexuality Awareness Week to all who celebrate. 🦄
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Personally, I find adding keys to a song that doesn't have keys on the original recording to be one of my favorite challenges. I've done many of the things that have been mentioned on this thread (but seriously, no keys on Whole Lotta Love?! There's that whole freak-out middle section where you can make every weird, cacophonous sound imaginable!), and Benmont Tench was one of the first guys to turn me on to the power of guitar-style voicings on the organ to add a little grandeur.
For that particular Soundgarden song you mentioned, I can totally hear some atmospheric, Rami Jaffee-style 90s Hammond licks on the intro and pads behind the solo, and some simple electric piano chords behind the main verse riff. Just some footballs and maybe an occasional fill or riff double. Honestly, Rami Jaffee is a great person to look to for this kind of gig -- aside from his iconic time in the Wallflowers, I think about how well he gets paid to stand up there with the Foo Fighters and be inaudible 90% of the time...
Since it's appropriate to this discussion, I'm going to share the not-for-public-consumption video evidence of the time my little soul-rock band covered Metallica's Master of Puppets for a Halloween show. I did, in fact, run my Wurlitzer through a Big Muff. At one point, a coked-out audience member tried to take the mic away from my wife. It was pretty silly, but it was fun.
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16 minutes ago, Floyd Tatum said:
I wonder who was the first male rock musician or singer to do the androgynous thing? I'm thinking maybe Mick Jagger? Possibly the Beatles because of the "hair like a girl" thing, but I don't think that's what they were going for. . . . Was their someone before him?
Little Richard, baby!
There's a whole historical/racial/social context for that, but probably outside the scope of what should be discussed on this forum.
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Had a pleasant surprise this week when my primary project's festival set from June showed up (mostly) in full on YouTube:
Sound mix gets a little funny (not sure if it's a board mix or camera audio, but there is not a lot of information below, like, 120 Hz), and there are some very silly video editing choices (plus the overall "VHS" look of the whole thing, which I find quite endearing, actually). And of course there are a handful of sour harmonies and flubs here and there that I wouldn't have chosen to Officially Release myself. But it's always nice to unexpectedly watch your own performance and go "hey, we're a really good band!" He even got the majority of our 25-minute mini-rock-opera, "At the Festival," which we performed in full.
I've got this three-board rig pretty well dialed in at this point -- the Yamaha CP88 for Wurli, grand piano, and a little bit of clav; Mojo XT for Hammond; and Korg Prologue 8 for all things synth. My talkbox tube was AWOL (this was my third set of four that afteroon and it just wound up in the wrong case), so I make do with a straightahead synth solo. Anyway, I hope y'all enjoy!
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I actually covered Heat Above backing up a local female vocalist a couple of years ago. I will say the experience, for me, is improved by having a less testosterone-laden voice singing it. 😉 A couple of tricky little rhythmic things in the instrumental transitions, too! Cool tune, fun keys parts.
The Led Zeppelin aesthetic is strong with this band, especially on the earliest material where their Management or their People or whoever decided to really lean into it, which wound up being very polarizing. But I try to put myself in the position of what my music would have sounded like and how I would have presented myself if *I* had gotten a major-label record contract when I was 15. It would have been pretty derivative, too. And I would have been trying to sing a lot higher than I had any right to, just to show off. Fortunately for me (and for everyone else), I had more time to develop before anyone heard any of my recordings.
Another note on their Zeppelin imitation: props to their keyboard player, who is also their bass player, covering the low end on the organ pedals (even on the studio recording -- my bass player buddy and I had a long discussion about whether or not there was an actual bass guitar part when we covered it for the aforementioned singer). Even with simple parts, that takes some woodshedding.
Is there a list of common organ drawbar settings for common songs?
in The Keyboard Corner
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Agreed, Mike. I fail to see how asking for help is somehow a weakness rather than a sign of curiosity and commitment. That's some gatekeepy nonsense, and not grounded in any sort of educational basis. "I had to struggle so you should too," again, helps no one.