Ekewaka
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Posts posted by Ekewaka
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The only hammond clone that doesn't make any compromises is the new Hammond B3 with its identical cabinet, and individual multiple-contact key switches etc. and I'm not quite sure what the going price is for one today but its well over 10k! Every other clone wheel has some compromises. Time will tell whether or not Roland has made the right compromises. It's really unfortunate to see Roland take so much flack for bringing out a great sounding drawbar organ at such a great price point.
They should fix the key bed itself and I would be happy. Or drop the price to around $500 which is typical for keyboards with this kind of lame key bed. Sorry, I just can't support something that has in my opinion flakes, they are just doing a disservice if they force every consumer to like it.
PS: And if anyone thinks that this Hip Elite is a snob, I've been doing many gigs with a Yamaha KX61.
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No need to exactly support a company even if you are marginal about their product offerings.
To a greater or lesser extent, I am marginal about ALL boards! Your argument means I should give up playing altogether.
I have been through just about every brand and model that an aging player with a bad back can carry, and every single board was compromised in one way or another. I have come to accept there will be compromises at all price-points and among all manufacturers.
No, what I mean that should demand even better products from Roland and others than just to accept all warts they release. And trust me, I know about back pain. But I would not purchase a light-weight keyboard just because it's light. There are plenty of low-cost light-weight Casio products I would never use.
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Ableton's Push was one of the main reasons to re-kindle my interest in playing jazz piano again :-). Anyone could push buttons, playing improvisational music is another story.
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Roland should make products people like. That's the only rule that works in a consumer society. If enough keyboard players like VR-09, good. If not, that's how it is. No need to exactly support a company even if you are marginal about their product offerings. Won't help them at all. Even worse, they get a false perception of what the market asks for and makes an even worse key bed for the VR-09 follow-up.
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As for sending a message to Roland by not purchasing, I really think that's a specious argument. If the Hammond XK/SK had used the VK-7's diving-board action, would the VR detractors have boycotted Hammond? I doubt it.
Actually, MANY of us boycotted Hammond for years over the awful and egregious faults or omissions of their previous generations of clones. It wasn't until the XK-3 series that they became a player to a lot of serious organists.
One could argue that we would have never gotten that improvement if we accepted the earlier attempts.
Yes, I find it strange that we consumers should just accept whatever the companies provide as a gift from the gods and if any issues just be stoic or let's say have a Lutheran approach of 'life is suffering and better go along with what by their grace they give us'.
We consumers have the power. Finally.
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Never underestimate the power of hip elite, if it considers VR-09 not hip, the amateurs or weekend warriors will shun the product :-).
Besides, the new keyboard generation is busy behind Ableton Live and an M-Audio keyboard controller, anyway....
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BTW I didn't find any band names called Hip Elite with a quick Google search -- hint hint in case someone wants a cool name.
Anyway, I'm a proud member #2 in the Hip Elite group :-).
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I hear that McDonalds is selling crappy hamburgers for 99 cents. Don't you even dare to compare them to sirloin!
Another analogy: I may not have the means for a Ferrari or even a Porsche so my MG gets me where I need to go in an enjoyable, fun loving way. And it's easier to get around in than my old Oldsmobile Matador, and more fun than a Geo or a Yugo.
Get a Mazda instead, zoom zoom and fun car, cheap, too. No need to pay for something sub-par when you could get better hardware for same price.
Going back to VR-09, if some like it, that's fine, it's all subjective. I'm just stating my opinions, had high hopes when it was launched and when I finally had a chance to test it I was surprised how Roland tried to sneak in a sub-par key bed for a $999 product. $599, I would have understood. Yes, you could do gigs with a VR-09, you could do gigs with an untuned upright piano as well. Does not mean that I want to spend that much money and gig with such products, but that's just my own personal opinion.
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I doubt flies know how to read Internet forums...
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I don't mind being called Hip Elite if this forces Japanese keyboard companies to make better key beds for their keyboards instead of assuming that people will just suffer and even pay for it. Roland really needs to get their act together, after all it has to keep up with its reputation.
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Needmorebass, maybe you can take a minute and explain to me how the Casio is a better controller for vb3 when it doesn't have an expression pedal? Expression pedal is a pretty basic requirement for drawbar organ..
Hmm, maybe I'm a novice with organ playing but I never needed an expression pedal.
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If Roland comes out with a VR-18 with decent keys I will revisit the product. Not before. Good sounds, awful key bed. And there's more than just plain sounds, you want to also have fun playing it. Might as well get a Microkorg as it has pretty good sounds, not so nice key set and half the price.
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For $999 I would expect at least the same quality of a key bed as let's say the Arturia Keylab.... Instead, the VR-09 is close to iRig Keys with somewhat bigger keys. But hey, if it's fine, it is fine. I would not waste my money but all this is subjective, anyway. And the best is to try out a VR-09 before purchase so it's not a surprise.
PS: The local GC had a Fantom on sale for key and its key bed was far, far superior to VR-09. I'm still surprised how Roland after all these years manage to make less quality keyboards based on all the know-how inside the company. Most likely this is a cost-cutting feature.
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And it's not just Roland, King Korg and low-cost Kromes... What are they thinking, Japanese companies? They were famous for their excellent hardware. Sigh. Of all the companies Casio is doing excellent hardware today with their low-cost products, who would have thought....
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If or when you ever transition to a vst based gig rig, by using a VR-09 as the controller you have sounds available in the VR-09 in case your rig goes down.... And the VR-09 is only marginally more expensive than a good quality controller..
I would not call VR-09 a good controller, it's one of the worst key beds with a $999 price point I've seen during my short lifetime. It's cheaper to get a used MIDI controller and use an older MacBookPro with Mainstage in case you want more sounds.
PS: I used to be a Roland fan, now I've close to given up on this company.
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Where in NJ can I demo one?
Many well-stocked GCs should have the VR-09. That's what I did (and thus cancelled my pre-order :-) ).
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I would buy the idea of inflation and old keyboards being more expensive and thus having better keyboards, however I have two parts of evidence that counter-claims this statement, your honor:
* Casio and its key beds for under $1000 price point
* Many low-cost MIDI keyboards have pretty decent key beds (excluding the bottom line of M-Audio.)
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...and I thought that my used Yamaha KX-61 MIDI keyboard (got it for $120) had a lousy key bed, it's excellent now compared with the recent Japanese keyboard releases...
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I'm definitely of the opinion that someone should try the VR-09 out without a blind online purchase, unless one is willing to possibly pack and ship back the unit. It's a very 'polarizing' product, indeed.
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I have this silly personal rule that if something cost below $100 I could live with tons of flaws. If below $500 I could accept some. If $1000 (or close by or more), it better be good, otherwise it's a waste of money. Does not mean that is has all the bells and whistles, more that what's provided is good.
Sadly, VR-09 didn't pass my rule; around $500 or just above it would have passed it.
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To remember that it is us the consumers that have or should have the power concerning products, not just blindly accepting what the companies provide.
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The only way to stop Japanese companies using sub-part key beds in their products is avoid purchasing them.
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I just played the KingKorg again over at GC. I liked the sounds, the UI is cool. The key bed is not fun for a >$1k keyboard. Now, there were other keyboards at the GC store with worse key beds but I won't mention those products again.
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Yes, if they aim for bedroom producers they are just confused about the layout and really want a real analog system. If they aim for the gigging keyboard player, the non-good key bed is a big minus. Sad as I liked the sounds, indeed.
Roland V-Combo VR-09
in The Keyboard Corner
Posted
Yes, there's a big difference between a Hip Elite and a snob.