Ekewaka
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Posts posted by Ekewaka
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SOS is maybe one of the few bigger magazines that are not market-money biased and they sometimes fail, too. TapeOp, even they are sometimes lured by the free equipment.
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The VR-09 seems to me to be a much simpler set up! Why carry a mixer, extra audio cables, midi/USB cable, iPad and stand, connector and interface.. Nothing simpler than a keyboard, x stand, amp, one set of audio cables and pedal(s). The VR will just look slicker and I'm still not absolutely sure that the iPad is ready for prime time music use yet.. Too easy for cables and connectors to come loose.. My opinion of course.
I used to be worried about too many cables and so on but solved the issue with a tight packing checkup list and a simplified setup of carry-on boxes. So having a standalone keyboard or multiple ones is not a big deal any more. Basically it's all about organizing skills, something most musicians including me are not good with. Anyway, just my opinion but using an iPad for live use with the additional cables being an issue is a no-brainer for me.
As for me not using an iPad. The reason is that I'm using a MBP with MainStage.
PS: https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2497077#Post2497077
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Add all those together, and suddenly it starts to sound way less appealing than a simple grab-and-go board. There are situations where it would be worth it, but for the gigs I'm doing, the simplicity of VR was the clear winner.
IK Multimedia mic clip stand for iPd. Small cheap mixer. Maybe you need more more audio cable compared with a VR-09 plus keyboard of course with USB. Might be about one=two minute longer setup time with an iPad versus a VR-09. Plus you could use the iPad with Set List Maker. I think more and more iOS apps now support multi-app playback mode.
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Take into account that Casio's keyboard division is just one of many divisions inside Casio doing watches, cameras, calculators, printers, mobile phones, POS systems... While Roland is as far as I know solely a music keyboard/effect (BOSS) company.
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A cheap/good midi controller + iPad + connection kit goes a long way. The GarageBand B3 is very nice for an organ plug-in.
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Key beds are indeed very subjective, everyone has their own preferences which is fine. Now, it's extremely tough to make a key bed that works across piano to EP to organ to synth playing. For me the closest someone managed to do that compromise was Nord, hence why you see a lot of one-keyboard only gigs with Nords. And they had to do compromises, too.
Now, my biggest gripe with the VR-09 key bed was the very short action. I always want to have some depth so I could have fun with velocity values so the keys are not plain on/off switches, especially for EP and similar sounds. I also had fond memories of the earlier Roland keys such as Jupiters and Fantoms so I was surprised to find this kind of short action key bed implementation. I even tried the VR-09 twice at different occasions to make sure this was not for me.
Anyway, key beds are for us keyboard players what fretboard/necks are for guitar players. If you don't feel comfortable playing with the instrument, it's not fun.
PS: I don't have anything against the sounds in VR-09, it's no Nord on the organ side but does a good job, otherwise. I would not even mind all the quirks and issues with the 1.0 implementation just now. And they should reprogram the cheesy lead synth sounds, I'm sure VR-09 could do more analog/creamy sounds than the ones provided. Oh and get rid of that awful OD effect.
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As far as i am concerned virtually everything you just said is wrong!
Sure, if you feel so. Music is subjective, anyway. Now, those who picked up Electro 3s recently from GC got a really good deal. I was thinking about getting one but then PX-5S arrived and I needed a full 88-key set for lounge/restaurant gigs, otherwise an Electro3 would be far better than VR-09 for my gigging purposes.
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So you're suggesting a $1500 used keyboard and another Yamaha synth to do what the VR-09 can do?
The electro 3 can't do what this keyboard can do. No split and layer and no VA synth.. There is nothing that can do what this synth can do for twice the price.
You don't seem to get this... And you think it should be priced at $599? That's a joke!
No, it's not a joke. The Electro 3 organ sounds are miles ahead of what VR-09 could do. The key bed is 10x better. Only gripe I have with Electro 3s are the skimpy amount of RAM for adding more samples but someone could live with that in case they are not that interested in lots of synth patches, just 10 or so.
Splits are nice for bass playing but if you don't need that, there's seldom a need for splits, at least with the gigs I'm doing.
I find it also intriguing that 12lbs is something cool for a keyboard weight, most people could carry 24lbs, even me with my back problems. Actually it's good I carry more heavy things to keep my stomach muscles in shape to avoid future back problems. Light weight is nice but not a necessity.
I still maintain that VR-09 should cost the same or less than the forthcoming Korg Kross or Yamaha MX as it's really competing with those, not with Nords and Casios.
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Kind of curious why people pay $999 and suffer playing the keys? Today you don't need to suffer if you pay the same amount and if nothing else use good used gear....
As has been said before, there is no other lightweight organ/synth apart from the XW-P1 and the Stage 2 Compact. Personally, I found the Casio's organ inadequate, and the Stage 2 beyond budget. The PC361 is heavier (and also has diving board keys); the SK1 does not work as a synth; the Electro's sample player does not qualify as a synth; the PX-5s has a weighted action, and is not a serious clonewheel contender. I'm wondering which board - past or present - you're referring to.
For a more fulfilling organ experience with some synth and piano sounds including excellent EPs, I would save money and get a used Electro 3. GC sold new ones for around $1600 recently so you might get a used one for $1500 or below. Adding another $500 to get a professional keyboard is not a big deal.
As for a more pleasant synth experience, I would look at anything Yamaha used.
And if you are solely in for a weighted keyboard with excellent piano/EP/Wurl sounds with a surprising amount of synths, look at Casio's PX-5S. It's bigger, indeed, but a 24lbs keyboard is not a big deal to carry around. Also, it does not flip off a keyboard stand if the singer nudges it :-).
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Kind of curious why people pay $999 and suffer playing the keys? Today you don't need to suffer if you pay the same amount and if nothing else use good used gear....
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To note the PX-5S upgrade was mostly to tweak the sounds, adding new ones and add functionality. I didn't see any major problems with the upgrade. Furthermore, lazy me has yet to upgrade my PX-5S with the 1.1 upgrade, has worked flawlessly for many gigs so far. I have yet to see all kinds of missing functionality or bad implementations in PX-5S compared with the info in this VR-09 thread.
Casio has indeed raised the bar for what a good product is for $999. It's quite doable: good engineers, good marketing, good product support, a keen eye on what keyboard players need and manufacturing smartness to make an excellent key bed with good profit margins.
PS: As for mellotrons, get IK Multimedia's Sampletron and a good midi keyboard.
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OMG, you've done it again.... Unbelievable!
Should I do it once again? :-). Take it easy. And have a nice day.
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When you post the same negative criticism over and over and over again, that isn't healthy dialog! You've posted that you don't like the keyboard upwards of 40 times in this thread.. That's not healthy, that's OCD!
Sharing different opinions is healthy, there is no question about it, but don't suggest that your incessent nattering about the keyboard is just healthy dialog because it's not! It's just obnoxious.
You've made your point dozens of times, and I'm pretty certain that everyone gets it.. now can you just back off and let the rest of us, especially us VR-09 owners, discuss the product!!!
Edit: sorry NMB you and I must have posted at the same time.. didn't see your post (which is almost identical to mine).. hope this guy finally gets it..
Sorry Craig... but you really need to look in the mirror when you make these criticisms. Your incessant defense of this product, while glossing over its obvious faults, can also be viewed as "unhealthy" dialogue.
So that being said, we can all calm down a bit and respect everyone's opinions on this list. And after all, its only a %$^#% list!
Yes, I don't really understand why this is taken so seriously. People always have opinions about things, that's how it is. Just filter out parts you don't like and move on. Even better, try out the keyboard, like I did and thus cancelled my purchase. If you tested it and liked it, good for ya.
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This is absolutely the most entertaining thread ever on this forum!!!!
It is soooo funny to see the fans protecting and the haters hating. I have seen it before, but I think this one tops all. The best part is that both perspectives from the "Hip Elite" haters to the "don't make fun of my new keyboard" fan boys provide the balance that is needed when folks are evaluating such a board. It would be a shame to silence either side of this polarizing dialogue.
Yes. I think it's healthy this kind of dialog happens as we consumers should be critical about products that are offered or the other way around. There's no need to try to hush down either side. Most readers are intelligent to filter our the noise, anyway, so there's no need to baby sit in this forum.
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That was my plan but after testing VR-09 at GC I gave up on that idea and cancelled my pre-order. The B3 Mainstage sounds are good and I just don't want to play on the VR-09 cardboard key set. Now, PX-5S, the gift keeps on giving!
The PX has a hammer action. How do you play hammond organ with that?!?
The VR-09 is not a stage piano. The only compare that would make sense would be with Nord's Compact Fatar or Hammond XK's Waterfall. I have the Kurzweil PC3LE6 with a Fatar TP8 here and the action is much too heavy to play B3 style....
The plan was to use PX-5S for piano/EP/Clav and synths sounds, the VR-09 for organ and synth sounds. I could play organ with a weighted key set, it's doable, but yes I would not spend $999 on a PX-5S if it was solely for organ and synth playing. Just now my Yamaha KX61 works well for Mainstage/B3 sounds. I thought the KX61 was a crappy key bed until I tested out the latest offerings from Japan, Casio excluded.
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That was my plan but after testing VR-09 at GC I gave up on that idea and cancelled my pre-order. The B3 Mainstage sounds are good and I just don't want to play on the VR-09 cardboard key set. Now, PX-5S, the gift keeps on giving!
Kenekahuna.. can I ask you a question.. how many times are you planning to say the same thing here in this thread? Why don't you go back count the number of times that you've said "the VR-09 keyboard is crap" or "I cancelled my order" or "the PX-5S is better value" or "the VR-09 should be priced at $599" or something to this effect.. I think you'll be shocked at how many times you've said the same thing over and over.
You sound like a broken record..
Sorry, I thought this country had the freedom of the press. Look. If someone likes VR-09, fine for them. All I'm saying is to try out the keyboard, either you like it or feel it's a waste of $999. I had myself big hopes for this one, maybe the disillusion made me post this comment multiple time. Onwards.
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Wow.. That means that the VR-09 is now $849... same for the Casio! If I were still gigging I would jump all over the Casio... Or maybe just buy one for my studio as I could use a good weighted controller... Hmmmm...
Dave, as has been suggested here a couple of times, the PX-5S + VR-09 = $1700 for a pretty fantastic gig rig!
That was my plan but after testing VR-09 at GC I gave up on that idea and cancelled my pre-order. The B3 Mainstage sounds are good and I just don't want to play on the VR-09 cardboard key set. Now, PX-5S, the gift keeps on giving!
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Thinking about a tube pre-amp to warm it some more. Tight budget, though...has anybody had ears on the Alesis tube duo?
Here we go again... Cue: "Speakeasy Music"
What's that old saying? "Those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it."? How many times have we heard the OP's comment about warming up the tone after a new clone has come out?...
Well, the effect box people have a nice business concerning 'warming up' the sound.... I agree, if it does not sound good from the start, most of voodoo won't work.
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4. This is one board that would actually about REQUIRE a Vent because it ain't even in the same league. That plus the drawbars would get you close to the SK2 range in price.
I would agree with this.. I think that the KB3 engine still needs a bit of work to compete with current clones.. Roland has stepped up their game with the VR-09 and the leslie sim seems much improved to me. I think Kurzweil needs to do the same with the KB3 engine.
Craig, I'm not sure if you've played a post-2012 OS version of KB3 but when Kurzweil released an OS upgrade for the PC3 series in or about January, 2012, it significantly improved the KB3. Properly tweaked (just like the VR09/Kronos) I think it can give the usual clones a run for the money. (I think few realize this, as Kurzweil did not publicize this much or update the organ sounds on their website so many still associate KB3 with the prior models).
In fact, I bought a vent in late 2011 intending to use it with the PC3 before the upgrade, but found little need for it once the new OS (and associated Leslie) was released.
If Kurzweil could only trim the PC3/PC-61 down by 10-15 pounds, and offer a waterfall keys version, I think it'd go back up to my number 1 gig/rehearsal board instead of the SK1/Nord Stage2-76 which I usually bring out these days.
I would indeed think that if there was a company that could execute well on a light-weight combo unit competing with Nord, it would be Kurtzweil, They just need more R&D funding.
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OT but If you have an iPad, Alchemy just updated a few weeks ago with a new sound bank called Himalaya Vintage that has dead accurate Mellotron flute and choir. Works great with my VR09 as a controller, as it would with any other.
Interesting that you say that Brenner13, I have the Griffin studio connect interface sitting beside me and I've collected a number of iPad music Apps and my next focus is going to see if I can work this into my gig rig.. ideally, whatever shortcomings the VR-09 has can be addressed with a second mini-keyboard and an ipad running synth apps.
You should! I use Alchemy and Animoog all the time...
All we need is for Guido to make an iPad version of VB3 and then you can throw that VR-09 in the dumpster! (Again... kidding)
Alchemy is really nice and the company behind it even nicer, responds to all kinds of requests from the users. Been a Camel user since before 1.0 days and Chameleon.
Now if you load Alchemy to a laptop and a good MIDI controller, you have a huge palette to for live purposes.
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Argh, that OD was nasty... A couple of amp sims would have been a better choice. I know bit crushing is Hip nowadays, but not for this Elitist.
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Adjective:
Following the latest fashion, esp. in popular music and clothes.
Cool, I will let Tower Of Power know about that. Some of their musicians visit local jams from time to time :-).
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Really?
He doesn't get it, and neither does he know anything about drawbar organs so I have no idea why he continues to post the same crap over and over and over in this thread!
Really?
I guess I'm Tragically Hip as an Elite, then. What is Hip, anyway.
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Yes, there's a big difference between a Hip Elite and a snob.
Really?
Yep. Unless you don't know what a Hip Elite is, of course :-).
Roland V-Combo VR-09
in The Keyboard Corner
Posted
Cost-cutting, smaller areas on PCB boards et rest.