Paul Harrison
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Posts posted by Paul Harrison
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Adam Neely
"Exploring what music means and what it means to be a musician. Video essays, lessons and vlogs on new horizons in music and music theory."
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When KeyboardPartner introduced version 3.6 of HX3, they advised that an update from version 3.5 to 3.6 "makes little sense" because "3.6 offers no sound advantage" but "is just a result of the fact that we were forced to switch to other FPGA chips" because of supply problems.
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On 4/14/2024 at 1:09 AM, mrk7421 said:
... the original Viscount Legend Live has a 30s organ sample that has bass like he describes. I am not hearing that on any other clones but let me know if I am missing something.
This refers to the "foldback" technique used in the vintage Hammond console organs. To produce all the tones required for every note on the keyboards and pedalboard on a Hammond organ using every drawbar from 16' to 1' would require a tone generator with 109 tonewheels; however, for practical reasons (size/weight/cost), a smaller number of tonewheels was used in later models (91 in the B3), and special "foldback" wiring was used for the lowest and highest drawbars at the low and high ends of the keyboards, to substitute ("fold back") the missing tones from a higher or lower octave.
At the bass end, this means that when you play the lowest two octaves on the keyboards, the 8' drawbar tone goes all the way down, but the 16' drawbar tone (which normally sounds an octave lower) is wired to repeat ("fold back") the tones from the second octave when you play the bottom octave, because the tone generator does not have the tonewheels that would be required to produce the next octave down.
In fact, the tone generator in later models (such as the B3) does have tonewheels for the next octave down, as needed for the pedalboard, but in these models the tonewheels used for the pedals are shaped to produce a "complex" waveform that is brighter than the "pure" waveform produced by the tonewheels used for the keyboards; hence the use of foldback with the 16' drawbar at the low end of the keyboard to limit the pure tones to the keyboards, and the complex tones to the pedals.
However, as Lee Michaels notes, older models such as the A did not have foldback there (because their tone generators used the same tonewheel shape, and thus produced the same "pure" waveform, for all notes), and consequently on these models when you play the lowest two octaves on the keyboards, the 16' drawbar tone goes down an octave lower than on later models such as the B3.
As you note, the "30s" organ sample on the Viscount Legend has no foldback on the 16' drawbar, with a "pure" waveform all the way down (because it is based on the BC, with the earlier tone generator). The HX3 engine (as used in MAG organs) also has a "16' Drawbar Foldback Mode" option whereby this behaviour can be enabled or disabled, but with a "complex" waveform for the lowest octave (because it is based on the B3, with the later tone generator).
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The usual drawbar setting for this song is 68 8600 000 with percussion On, Soft, Slow, Second; vibrato off; Leslie slow.
I've played this many times, and the percussion makes a subtle but significant difference. Note that the Hammond organ's "touch response" percussion only triggers on detached notes, and when you play in a legato way as Matthew Fisher mostly does in this song, the percussion doesn't sound on every note but does add a punch to the beginning of phrases and other detached notes; for example, on the very first note of the organ solo at the start of the song.
Fisher played a Hammond M100 on the original 1967 recording. In this case, he plays fairly legato throughout, and the percussion is not very prominent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb3iPP-tHdA
Here's a live performance from 2004 with him playing it on a Hammond B3. He still plays the organ solo (at the start and between the verses) mostly legato, but he plays the backing part (behind the vocal during the verses) more detached, and the percussion is more prominent here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQyFixb54JU
Note also that the second harmonic (often favoured by British players; e.g., Brian Auger's 88 8330 000 with percussion On, Soft, Fast, Second; vibrato C3; Leslie stop) doesn't jump out as much as the third harmonic does (e.g., as in the classic Jimmy Smith jazz setting 88 8000 000 with percussion On, Soft, Fast or Slow, Third; vibrato C3; Leslie stop).
BTW the full title is "A Whiter Shade of Pale" and is usually abbreviated "AWSOP".
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On 3/8/2024 at 9:59 AM, John Tweed said:
Three boards I am interested to know about are the Mojo, the original two manual with the light keyboard ..., the new Vox Continental ... and a Mag.
MAG offer standard or light springs as an option. I opted for light springs on my MAG C2, and it feels fine. (Back in the day I owned a new Hammond B3, and since then I have owned a Hammond XK3c and XK1c, and a Legend Solo. They all felt fine to me, and I soon got used to them all.)
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12 hours ago, stoken6 said:
The tuning on this track is insane. The first phrase - my ears were screaming "that's pitch-corrected!". Of course it's not.
The Manhattan Transfer recording is also sublime, but I knew about their awesome talent already.
Cheers, Mike.
Here's producer Jay Graydon describing how the recording was done:
One thing that is easy for the listener to forget when hearing the group sing is that while they make what they do seem easy, the songs are often difficult. Their talent makes it look easy – an example is “A Nightingale Sang In Berkeley Square,” which was arranged by Gene Puerling and won the “Best Vocal Arrangement” Grammy in 1981. Jay says, “One of the most difficult things to do is to get four people to sing in tune with no pitch reference. This song posed such a problem. What we ended up doing was to have the Transfer sing down the song without “punching in” for a “guide track” and without worrying about finite pitch problems as to just have a good feeling guide. They could barely hear this track in the earphones when doing the performances to different tracks and it was used mostly for “phrase starts” and when to take a breath as well as a slight pitch reference. I would then have them sing the song all the way down about 20 times on different tracks and I would keep notes on each line with a grade scale of 1 to 10. 9 and 10 scores are keeper lines. After the 20 performances, I looked at my notes and had the group repair trouble spots by punching in and out on many tracks. After about 8 hours, I had all the necessary elements to ‘combine’ all the performances to one master track. This process took about another 8 hours to ‘bounce’ as to achieve a seamless master track without any noticable ‘punches.’ A day later, the group started the process again for ‘the double.’ This time, they heard the combine much louder in the earphones as to tune up to it. 20 tracks again under the conditions mentioned above. The next day, a few solo vocals were added. The Transfer work very hard to achieve good pitch and feel. This method of ‘no pitch guide’ is rare.” Jay also added “If you try to play piano or whatever along with the track, the pitch center will drift, but very pleasantly,” in what he refers to as “ear candy land.”
https://manhattantransfer.net/discography/mecca-for-moderns/
Here's a live performance:
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Here's a classic a cappella recording where you can hear "on-the-fly" microtonal adjustments to make the harmony "spot on".
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- Larry Goldings (organ) with Peter Bernstein (guitar) and Bill Stewart (drums)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8A0V60teBI
- Larry Goldings (organ) with John Scofield (guitar) and Greg Hutchinson (drums)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-CNMqLc1g4- Dan Hemmer (organ) with Michael Blicher (sax, flute) and Steve Gadd (drums)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89L9-HJFG2I-
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Dudley Moore is one of my favourites. He is sometimes lyrical, sometimes funky, but always inventive, and he really swings but with a relaxed feel echoing his hero Erroll Garner. This album, recorded in 1971 while his trio were on a tour of Australia, during which I saw them in concert and met him backstage, is one of my favourites.
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7 hours ago, DroptopBroham said:
... I've got nothing against Suzuki, I have an M109R that I love and had a Hayabusa 20 years ago. Their bikes are badass and affordable, their organs are meh and overpriced. You are just paying for a name like you do with Harley and Indian.
The Suzuki Musical Instrument Corporation (founded by Manji Suzuki in 1953) isn't connected to the Suzuki Motor Corporation (founded by Michio Suzuki in 1909) ... same name, different company.
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Larry Goldings on time
Maceo Parker with Larry Goldings
- Maceo Parker (alto), Pee Wee Ellis (tenor), Fred Wesley (trombone), Allan Jaffe (guitar), Larry Goldings (organ), Bill Stewart (drums)
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18 hours ago, time4jazz said:
Al Jarreau has put lyrics to some Jazz tunes. Spain and Take Five, for example….
"Take Five" was written by saxophonist Paul Desmond when he was with the Dave Brubeck Quartet, and first appeared on their 1959 album "Time Out". The lyrics that Al Jarreau sings to this tune were written by Dave Brubeck's wife, Iola, and were first recorded by Carmen McRae in 1962.
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I did a version of Pick Up the Pieces with a guitar/keys/drums trio a few years ago. I did the sax and bass parts on a Kurzweil SP4-7, and the second guitar part (and comping under the guitar solo) on organ. Here's a recording from a rehearsal where we were working up the arrangement (and trying to get it tight! 😣).
https://soundcloud.com/ozmusicman88/pick-up-the-pieces
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'The paradox was not lost on [saxophonist Paul] Desmond that interest in [the Dave Brubeck Quartet album] Time Out had been sparked by an inferior take [on the single version] of “Take Five” that he never intended anyone to hear. In an interview published on the Artists House Music website in 2011, [producer Teo] Macero remembered Desmond calling him shortly after the release of the single to complain that “you got the wrong take.” Macero played dumb: “It can’t be, I went over there and did the editing myself,” he said, before turning the tables. “Have you been to the bank lately with the royalty statements?” Macero asked. “They’re selling like hotcakes!” Desmond responded, Macero’s cue to hang up with a cheerful “Bye, Paul!”—which implied that, although the single might not have been Paul’s take of choice, any record selling in those quantities could never be the “wrong” take.' (from "Dave Brubeck - A Life in Time" by Philip Clark)
While this raises questions like how to distinguish between a "bad" take and an "inferior" one, and how to weigh commercial considerations against artistic ones, I agree with Paul Desmond; the version of Take Five on the Time Out album has always been the definitive one for me, with both Desmond's sax solo and Joe Morello's drum solo being much better on the album version.
[Single version:] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1NZ57Xw_fg
[Album version:] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryA6eHZNnXY
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When I finished high school in 1974, I passed the audition to go on to a music degree at university but decided to go into the family music business instead. I managed the keyboard department and introduced a computerized office system (and taught myself programming so I could customize the software) in the early 1980s.
In the 1990s, I went back to university and did an arts degree, then worked in the business software industry doing customer support and writing user manuals and technical documentation.
In 2001, I joined an online bureau that provides editing services to scientists and academics around the world who have English as a second language and want to publish their research in English-language journals. I started as an editor, later joined the management team as systems administrator, and eventually was appointed as general manager.
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18 hours ago, Al Coda said:
... The P2 offers an FX insert and I´d like to know where it sits,- technically.
Is it pre internal leslie sim or is it pre- Neo Mini-Vent II ?
Is the FX insert still available when ordering the P2 w/o Neo Mini Vent II ?
The effects loop and Mini Vent are available on all MAG models, along with other options including standard or light keybed springs, 6-, 9- or 11-pin Leslie interfaces, and custom timber side panels.
Mine is configured like this: HX3 > Effects loop > onboard Reverb > onboard MIni Vent.
I normally use the effects loop for a Lounsberry Tall & Fat overdrive unit, which enables me to use a combination of the HX3's internal overdrive, the T&F in the effects loop, and the Mini Vent's overdrive all at the same time. Each overdrive has its own characteristics, and they blend well.
As the brand name ("MAG Custom Organs") suggests, if you have a special requirement, Max will make it happen if he can.
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1 hour ago, LX 88 said:
Still trying to find out about any chorus vibrato improvement from HX3. I have the original module and chorus vibrato parameters drive me nuts! So many things to screw it up wheras my Viscount and even Numa 1 have luscious CV. Love the Viscount BC emulation also. More shallow CV....a welcome variation. Wish HX3 has something like it.
My MAG C2 has the latest version of the HX3 engine (HX3.5) with the latest firmware (v5.7), and the sound and tweakability of the chorus vibrato (and things like percussion and keyclick) are among the many things that make it a winner for me. The chorus vibrato has that that classic purr and shimmer, and there are 16 adjustable parameters, some of which are fairly subtle and should only be tweaked if you know what you are doing, although if you mess it up, you can always restore the factory settings. The modulation depth and the wet/dry mix are the main parameters I have tweaked a bit.
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On 3/30/2022 at 9:38 PM, Coker said:
White = tip
Red = ring
Shield = sleeve
👍 Now fixed, thanks!
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I need to fix a Yamaha FC7 pedal whose cable has lost its plug. Does anyone here know which wire (white, red, shield) goes where (tip, ring, sleeve)?
Age Check for Those of Us Still Gigging and Hauling Gear
in The Keyboard Corner
Posted
I'm 66. I gig with a MAG C2 (inbuilt Mini Vent) and a Kurzweil SP4-7 through a Yamaha MX10 mixer into an RCF ART715 powered speaker.
I chose the MAG because (apart from the even smaller and lighter C1 single-manual version) it's the closest thing I've found to the sound and feel of a Hammond B3 and Leslie without the bulk and weight.
I chose the Kurzweil because it has all the other sounds I need (piano. Rhodes, Wurli, Clavi, strings, horns, synth, etc.) and a 76-key semi-weighted keyboard. I've also downloaded extra sounds from the PC3le library.
https://ksetlist.com/community/ksetlist-com-compilations-volumes/for-sp4-users-pc3le-programs-one-per-file/
Everything has its own heavy-duty padded gig bag, cables and pedals go in a backpack, and it all fits in the back seat and boot/trunk of my car along with a folding Quik Lok QL742 2-tier X-stand and a folding padded X-seat.
https://www.quiklok.com/product/ql-742-pro-series-keyboard-stand/
The speaker bag has wheels built in; and if it's not far from the car park to the stage, then I just carry the keyboards one in each hand (15+11 kg / 33+24 lb), or if the load-in is a long trek, then I put them both on a folding handtruck with a couple of luggage straps.
https://www.teamsystems.net.au/ruxxac-cart-xl-trolley