LilyM

I've been a VB3 user for many many years. After demoing VB3II and Blue3II (bummer to me that B5 can't be demo'd) I felt it wasn't really so much a question of one being better than the other, as they were all good, just different. But at one point I did demo Amplitube Leslie and using that with all of them absolutely made much more qualitative difference than any difference between the plugins themselves. So I figured B-3X would be a clear winner. But after a couple of hours with the demo, I'm not positive it is. First problem for me is the cpu hit is severe. I'm running on an old laptop, i5, 8gb ram, but I run Diva in Divine mode no problem B-3X was right on the edge. As it's sampled (partly?), the presets take a second or two to load. Otherwise it seemed pretty cool. I only have VB3 VI to compare with at the moment, but I most definitely can not say it is head and shoulders above even that. B3X has quite a bit more to tweak and FX etc so it is very possible with some work and time to maybe come up with something that does in fact blow me away. But quickly dialing in similar settings didn't have any clear winner... even in terms of the Leslie, which is puzzling me the most. It definitely is a great sim, excepting cpu hit for me.. But I don't feel it quite hit me like how I remember using Amplitube Leslie with VB3 I and II and Blue3 II.

Yeah that's what I was trying to say! Definitely has other tunes and performances like that. That entire album is great. Just a trio. They JAMMED! He had come over to play in US on strength of "Your Song" and everyone was expecting the usual singer songwriter of the day, ala James Taylor etc... but this trio blew minds and expectations.

I saw Elton John at MSG in 1976 at the height of his pop stardom. Although I liked some of his stuff and had a few albums, I only went because my friend's little sister and her friends gave me a ticket to drive them down there. But I was blown away. Despite the theatrics and pop trappings... this band jammed!!! I actually found the show online some years back and was even more impressed.There was actually Phish like atonal jams, a Grateful Dead like Drums/percussion/electronica solo, all sorts of extended improvised jams and deep cuts. Opened the show with a 12 minute Hercules (not exactly a hit song) that included a solo piano interlude). Encored with "Tell Me When The Whistle Blows" (w/ The Harlem Choir) a favorite of mine... a deep cut from a rather overlooked album at the time. And hit all sorts of crazy highs and places in between. I saw many great shows at MSG but that place never bounced and swayed like it did at the show closer Saturday Night's Alright For Fighting." An absolutely mind boggling show, incredible playing, but just never imagined Elton John would take that crowd to some of those places.

...anyway, I was wondering how you got to test drive B5? I'd really like to try it but no demo that I am aware of. After all my comparisons with Blue 3, and VB3 I & II, I think my final determination is that using Amplitube Leslie with any of them provides the biggest benefit, rather than any particular difference between them. By themselves I think they are all good and I like and dislike a few things in each. On their own I think Blue 3 comes out on top just because the the fast Leslie in VB3II doesn't work for me at all. But there is a vague dryness or deadness to Blue 3, while both VB3 I & II are just a bit more alive. But these are small things (and probably personal things) and they all do the job quite well. And with further work under the hood, they all offer so much adjust ability I'm sure most things could be addressed adequately. Ultimately I am content with VB3I for now..maybe getting Amplitube Leslie at some point..or hoping Guido updates the Leslie on II...or maybe Blue 3 gets nice update etc.

So I can't speak exactly to what Guido actually meant... but I do know that English is not his first language, and the context was to provide some tweaks to help decrease the intensity of the fast Leslie in VB3II. I just assumed he meant there is a small amount of "dry" signal coming off the speakers that does not get directed into the horns or rotor. And he has a parameter to mix in more or less of that dry leak. I don't think his reference to the cabinet was in relation to a dry signal, he was just pointing out another adjustable parameter that might help.

I carry everything, including stand (which is K&M table top stand, so big and bulky) and seat in a hockey bag. They have some with wheels as well

I will say CP5 says absolutely amazing being played by @Dave Ferris.

I think the main difference was the CP4 was lighter and had new CFX sound engine, which some thought was improvement and others not so much. @jazz+ good thread here also

Midinut, this is what Guido wrote me about taming the fast Leslie on VB3II... If the fast speed sounds too pulsating for you, you might try to: - increasing the Distance parameter - increase the Mid. Reflections parameter - increase or reduce the Doppler Intensity just a bit Also, a real Leslies lets a little portion of the dry signal get through from behind the speakers, you might want to adjust this using the Dry Leak and Bass Port parameters. The Cabinet parameter lets you adjust the amount of wooden cabinet that is mixed into the sound.

Did I say that???? I actually did figure out how to demo the Amplitube Leslie.. it wasn't easy!! But I do have to say that it is, as many have said before, FANTASTIC!!! VB3II, which I wasn't that keen on, sounds amazing through Amplitube Leslie. VB3I also sounded great. Blue 3, which I really like, sounded quite weird through it. There are probably further tweaks to Blue3 to make it more compatible, but I didn't get into that. It was to much fun fun fun playing VB3II. If I hadn't missed the $79 deal I would have bought it, but at $129, VB3I is good enough for the moment.

Man I went to NYC immediately when they got the Roland RD2000 on the floor. I wanted to love that keyboard so much. I thought they had really nailed it on so many fronts, particularly as a controller and loved those leds on the endless rotarys and faders... audio over usb and on and on. I was ready to ditch the CP300 and was looking at new ways to stack my second keyboard with the RD2000. But I just didn't LOVE it when I played it. Don't get me wrong it was great, but the piano just ever so synthy sounding and the action just not quite there for me.. not quite the dynamic punch when digging in like on the CP300. I may actually still buy one, just wasn't enough to make me walk out with one at that moment. I love my CP300.

Hey thanks ewall08530. You've got me thinking maybe the $200 might be a worthwhile investment. Those other extras along with what you consider to be superior piano patches are probably worth it. New S3000 or used CP33?

Right, I understood those patches you mentioned you were not on 1000, it's just seemed like you were including the action as well as being different. And I just need a quality piano sound... are you saying those patches (stage piano and ambient) are in such a different league? Like the main piano sound is not really usable but those are? I just have no opportunity to demo the Casio myself, so really apprecaier the inoput.

The action and basic piano sound are identical on 1000 and 3000 no? For my purposes for this I don't need what I understand to be the extras of 3000. I just need it to be quality action and Grand Piano sound. Acceptable quality..you know what I mean... i know that is different for for everyone, but I mention the CP300 only in the sense that if it is way off from that kind of action and piano sound I'll just keep lugging the CP300. But if its good enough, I'm only using it for a limited, specific handful of gigs a year.. and don't need any other features...although as I mentioned the audio input of Casio is sometimes useful for this situation...and the battery power means I might use it in other different circumstances

Great suggestion on the CP33!! I am seeing them for around $800 amd although a little more $ and a little more weight and of course used, going to seriously consider that. I definitely won't be selling my CP300 any time soon though. It is so integral to my live stage set up in so many ways

I really appreciate the opinions so far! I checked into a Yamaha CP 4 but still $1,400 on Ebay. Right now, financially my situation is that I'll just keep schlepping the CP300... unless at $600 and with that degree of portability these things actually do kick ass "enough" to do the job.

From this thread https://cgi.ikmultimedia.com/ikforum/viewtopic.php?t=14883 T-RackS Leslie: -- is a single plug-in, which will run in a DAW, T-RackS 5 (the (free) Custom Shop program or a paid-for edition) or the TR5 Suite plug-in, -- the GUI has 3 panels, -- the first panel is for the Setup, Amp and EQ controls -- the second is for selection of amp (from 5) and cab (from 6) and for mic positioning, -- and the third is for mic mixing, -- the Amp controls look generic. AmpliTube Leslie: -- is 11 separate gear models: 5 Leslie Amps and 6 Leslie rotary-speaker cabinets -- they can only be loaded into the AmpliTube program or plug-in (the free Custom Shop program or a paid-for edition, v4 onwards), -- in AT4 CS the Cab Room GUI will look and be simpler (as for other AT cabinet models), -- the Amp controls are on each AMP GUI, which look like the different models, -- pop-out panels on the Cabs show Cabinet selection, mic mixing, EQ, (and speaker and room browser?), -- you can (when released) download full working models from the AmpliTube Custom Shop and try them out free of charge, -- I presume that they can be mixed and matched with other AT4 gear models.

Yes I was thinking I should include that in my original post. I would not be expecting to use the internal speakers. I rarely do for this situation even with the CP300.

Yes I was thinking I should include that in my original post. I would not be expecting to use the internal speakers. I rarely do for this situation even with the CP300.

So I am a long time (old) pro keyboardist, primarily piano player. I have gigged with a Yamaha CP300 for many years now and the previous versions of the CP300 for many years before that. Maybe a dozen times a year I get asked to play a wedding ceremony and it is becoming tough for me hauling the CP300 around for that, as often I am then also moving locations for the cocktail hour. So I am considering the Yamaha P125 or Casio PX S1000. I have read lots of reviews and listened to demos, but I'm not sure I can get my hands on them to demo for myself (at least for sure no one around me has the Casio). So I'd like to ask... the first thing being are these professional enough keys for the job? I really only care about the piano sound and the action. Despite the hassle and weight of the CP300, I'd rather just use it if these are not really up for the job and I done't really feel I can pay much more than the $600 these are going for, for this purpose. But if they are capable enough, whats the preference? I'm obviously a Yamaha guy and would just go with the P125, but the Casio seems to really be getting some good reviews and there are a couple of small things that make me lean that way... the audio input and the battery operation. Both could come in handy now and again..but certainly not deal breakers by any means. I certainly appreciate any advice!

Actually Guido got right back to me with suggestions to tweak the fast leslie. I'll find them and post as soon as I can find them. They made some difference for sure, but not enough really for me. In the end I kinda gave up and am still playing VB3 VI. Neither VB3 VII or Blue 3 blew me away enough to want to fork over the money to replace VB3 I. That and the fact that I just couldn't make up my mind which I liked better. I really wish I could demo B5. I am considering however buying Amplitude Leslie, as there is one more day of sale price of $79. If I do, I will try the whole process anew...and let you know.

Yeah, I don't really think iLok is a deal breaker, for me anyway. And actually I listened to some of @JoJoB3's demos of B5 and it really does sound fantastic. But ultimately its all about how it actually feels to sit down and and play it. And unfortunately no demo for B5... and I keep hearing from many people who have played it that it's really perfectly suited for jazz and gospel/blues, but doesn't quite wail like VB3 and Blue3 for rock. But I am still intrigued.

Yeah, I sure get the subjective nature of all of this.. but really appreciate the input. I guess my biggest question was regarding the fast Leslie setting in VB3II... I haven't really heard other complaints about it so doubting myself, but I don't think it's at all usable for me as it is. It was the same with B4II way back in the day as @EricBarker brought up. B4 was great for its day and II was maybe a nice update, however the distortion in II was absolutely unusable for me, as others also noted at the time...but of course for others not a deal breaker. I also agree it is the player! I have no doubt @JoJoB3 will sound way way better on the worst of sims than me on the best. I'm mainly a piano player at heart and have only occasionally played a real B3/Leslie when the venue has one in their back line. So just tying to find any edge I can with a B3 sim. So anyway this is where it seems to stand for me... B5 No demo...Seems to be the most realistic, but a bit tougher to get to scream than others. a bit heavier on cpu.. and ILOK Arturia B-3 Really??? I have this. Sound might be ok or realistic or whatever..but I get no joy playing it whatsoever. Blue 3 Seems to get a lot of support on various forums. As an overall package, seems to have it most together...from gui to preset mgr to playability, to protection scheme (although again I haven't demoed B5). I think maybe it is ever so subtly just a bit synthy/modeled sounding. Saw someone mention that the 147 models give a bit more raw sound so gonna work on that today. VB3 I may be a bit too loyal...or too invested, as I have been waiting on this update for years! But I seem to like playing this best...But again, the fast Leslie makes it unusable for me...I will see what I can do about tweaking it today. I guess I would really rather not have to buy and have a separate Leslie, but if it is going to make a big difference I will go that route. I wasn't so aware of Melda Rotary but will check it out. I just seemed to hear most people raving about Amplitube. But whatever it is, it seems most are using some separate Leslie, regardless of sim as well?

OK, I appreciate that. I have read various forum threads on all three, particularly Blue 3 vs B5 and didn't get a sense that people were raving disproportionally about B5. And I thought there seemed to be a feeling maybe B5 was a bit more suited to jazz/gospel? But I definitely respect your opinion. I know $79 is not a huge amount, but I sure wish there was a demo.

I've been waiting a long time time to upgrade my original VB3 and finally had some time to demo VB3II and Blue 3II. There's no demo that I am aware of for B5 and I guess I would rather stay with modeled vst (although I have no rational reason for that). Anyway it was quite a roller coaster. I started with Blue 3, just scrolling through presets and it sounded great but didn't knock me out (although I thought the Jimmy Smith preset was particularly sweet!). But then switching to VB3, I was even less knocked out... all the same presets from VB3I and definitely wasn't sure it was an improvement. So I jammed for a while with both and went back and forth, opinion wise. And I came to really like both a lot. Finally I set up identical sounds/settings for both and did some serious A-Bing. I think actually they are both great, but maybe VB3II has a little more edge and aggressiveness, which works for me. However I MUCH prefer the Leslie on Blue 3. The fast setting on VB3II just doesn't work for me at all... it seems more vibrato-y than doppler-y and too intense. I will look more into possibly tweaking that... and am open to suggestions. However I know many have posted about really liking Amplitube Leslie. As there is no demo for Amplitube Leslie and it's obviously an additional expense, I'd love to hear about others experience with it and VB3II and or Blue 3II. I guess barring what I find with trying to tweak the VB3II leslie, if I just had to choose VB3II or Blue 3II as is, I'd have to go with Blue 3II as I much prefer the leslie. But there is just something subtle about the sound of VB3II that I THINK I prefer, so that if the Amplitube Leslie solves that problem and is worth the extra expense, I would probably go with that. Let me also just say that I don't have a tremendous amount of experience playing a real B3 and Leslie, so I could be way off the mark in terms of being true to the original...I can just say what sounds good to me in my set up. But I appreciate any and all help and advice.