CyberGene

^ This is called re-pedaling. Half-pedaling is somehow related but not exactly. On a real piano the dampers are not instantaneous, they can’t stop the string vibration immediately, especially in the bass region. Which is why releasing the pedal while the strings are producing loud sound and then quickly pressing it again (hence lifting the dampers off the string) would have the effect of only slightly dampening the sound without stopping it fully, which naturally is dependent on your timing. If you’re quick enough, you can repeatedly press and release the pedal multiple time until the sound is dampened. Again, that’s called re-pedaling and I’ve personally complained about the lack of it in many sampled piano libraries on the computer. Digital pianos support it almost universally. It’s the first time I see someone not liking it though. In combination with half-pedaling it helps in shaping your sustain and phrasing, especially in classical romantic repertoire and lyrical legato-driven pieces.

I lived long enough to see someone complaining about long piano sustain (using a Casio digital piano as a reference) and complaining about presence of re-pedaling 😲

Ahh, right, I totally forgot they ship to the US too. I thought the question was from a European customer's perspective.

I’ve returned a 100+ kg Yamaha NU1X piano and they covered the transport. Replaced it with a N1X. I’ve returned a few other instruments (YC61 and a YC73 finally ending up with a CP88) without them asking why. Thomann are superb. It’s beyond me why someone would think they are not legit 🧐

I’m a bit late to the party but Porcupine Tree FTW 🤘🏻

What did happen with this one? 🧐 Montage+ or CK61? (what did happen with that one too?)

Yeah, I think I find issues with all the digital/software pianos. I have some objections about the piano sound in my Yamaha AvantGrand N1X too since it’s one of the most expensive digital pianos on the market and one would expect it to be flawless. Which is why for recordings I use the much better sounding Garritan CFX ($200) but then Garritan lacks the playability and the resonances. So, it’s always about some compromises. And the Numa X is great when you consider the keyboard improvement, the traveling weight, compact form factor and all these wonderful features for a bargain price. I’m happier with my CP88 but it was close to 2x the price so this complaint about dull attack in the bass is a bit odd on my side, I mean does it justify 2x the price? I don’t think so. So, in no way I’m thrashing it. I still find it a great stage piano 👍🏻

I don't know why but there's always something in the middle and baritone/bass of all the Numa pianos that is too dull and distant, compared to the rest of the piano. That particular range sounds like a synthetic wave coming from another room. I hear it in all three new piano demos and I also heard it in all the factory sounds while I had the Numa and was the reason to return it. Maybe it's just my ears or taste for piano sound but I'm glad I returned it instead of waiting for updates and more piano sounds.

He posted a YouTube video but it’s not embedded, only a link. And the picture in the first post doesn’t include the actual bar. It took me some time to realize what was all about until I opened the video.

That’s a really interesting idea but you’ll have to plan your fingering, so that you end up with your thumb ready to manipulate the bar which is a challenge by itself especially when doing quick runs.

OK, finally managed to hide the pinned threads too. So, if you’re using AdGuard for Safari on iOS, here are the rules. forums.musicplayer.com##li[data-location="e7161fee1de0182053e3faaacc64e09f"] forums.musicplayer.com##li[data-location="cea6010cc171bcabb23df7f5da4f0a29"] forums.musicplayer.com##li[data-location="bc88c386976af5aeeaa0b7c5930d28ee"] forums.musicplayer.com###ipsLayout_mainArea > div:nth-child(4) > ul.ipsToolList.ipsToolList_horizontal.ipsToolList_horizontal--flex.ipsClearfix.ipsSpacer_both:first-child forums.musicplayer.com###ipsLayout_mainArea > div:nth-child(4) > div.ipsBox.ipsResponsive_pull:last-child > div.ipsButtonBar.ipsPad_half.ipsClearfix.ipsClear:nth-child(2) > ul.ipsButtonRow.ipsPos_right.ipsClearfix:first-child forums.musicplayer.com###elMobileNav forums.musicplayer.com###elLogo forums.musicplayer.com###ipsLayout_mainArea > div:first-child forums.musicplayer.com###ipsLayout_mainArea > div.ipsList_reset.cForumList.ipsBox.ipsSpacer_bottom.ipsResponsive_pull:nth-child(3) forums.musicplayer.com###ipsLayout_mainArea > div.ipsPageHeader.ipsBox.ipsResponsive_pull.ipsPadding.ipsClearfix:nth-child(2) Here’s how it looks (The button for starting a new discussion is hidden, however it takes too much vertical space, you can reload without content blockers for a while to see it or just not use the hiding rule above, I forgot which one it is, you have to experiment):

.

By using custom blocking rules in AdGuard I managed to remove all the clutter. Now, if the three pinned threads can be merged into one or moved into a menu or something it would be even better. We all know the rules and don’t need them being above the threads all the time. Any chance of configuring for them to hide when read? I have my own forum where pinned threads stay pinned only until read. Here’s how it looks now, I will try to remove the pin threads later but it can be trickier:

The main view of the forum on a mobile phone is so huge and filled with secondary stuff that no thread is visible and one has to scroll which is bad for usability. Here’s how the main page looks on even the biggest iPhone:

I agree with most of you. And I really don't care who used what tools to create music, I only care if I like it. A particular angle I wanted to highlight though, but somehow forgot to mention, is people put "dawless" either in the video title or in the description which is what bothers me because I really lack the hidden message of why it's important to mention it. I mean, people don't put "dawful" in the title. So, somehow dawless crowd thinks it's important to mention it. Does it make it more difficult to produce dawless music, hence listeners should give more bonus points? Or is dawless music assumed to be better, more real, something else? I really appreciate how most of the greatest music has been created before there were DAW but that doesn't mean dawless is better because those people might have used DAW-s if they had them. The question is, if today you have access to any music tool you find useful, hardware or software, why do you have to act in a partisan way and somehow denounce one or another?

OK, point taken 😀 When people speak about DAW-less, they usually don't mean bands of musicians recording in professional studios. It's almost always about bedroom musicians creating music at home. And while on the Beatles page, well, they didn't use a DAW since they had a team of engineers who acted as a DAW in the studio for them with all the multi-track recording, overdubbing, effects, sound processing, console automation, mixing and mastering duties and whatnot, so you can hardly say the final product that you bought from the music store was created by these four guys counting on "1, 2, 3, 4" and recording it into a tape recorder themselves, right 😀 P.S. Here's something from Wikipedia: Sounds like they would've loved to use a DAW, wouldn't they?

Browsing through YouTube synth videos and other forums I see many people promoting the idea of going dawless (or rather DAW-less) which is to make music without a computer (hence without using a DAW) and instead use dedicated hardware, sequencers, groove boxes, drum machines, etc. which is supposed to be more musically involving and inspiring compared to scrolling through computer menus and tweaking some knobs and sliders on a screen with a mouse. While I agree it makes some sense, whenever I listen to music of people who are DAW-less, I hear an endless loop, it's good for a while but, to be frank, it just becomes boring because how long can you listen to the same sequence, even when you tweak it a little? And I just can't see what's so wrong with using a DAW. How come a DAW is not our friend but is seen as an enemy? Am I too old or something? 🧐

I didn't know about that movie but I'm a sick classical music fan, so I will certainly watch it, thanks for the recommendation! And of course I love Mahler 5, who doesn't? 😀 (Well, I prefer Bruckner and Sibelius to Mahler, and my favorite Mahler is actually the 6th but anyways, I'm a sucker for all the classical symphonic music in the world and can't get enough of it). P.S. Just watched the trailer. Wondering if they had Marin Alsop in mind, considering certain parallels 😉 Also, the trailer somehow reminded me the French movie "La pianiste" (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0254686/)

I guess the pedal needs to only send position, in this case the 6 predefined steps. Velocity is a derivative of position in respect to time, so you can calculate it internally. FOr half-pedaling it's important to have position and not velocity since half-pedaling can be triggered through a static pedal position that is not moving, so I believe the scanning logic sends the raw switch position and the velocity is just part of the piano engine to produce fancy effects like different pedal "loom" noises.

I don't think it's only the synth topology/architecture that makes the CS-80 so unique. It's also the well-controlled polyphonic aftertouch. And there aren't many controllers that support it. A Hydrasynth can make wonderful Blade Runner brass (the famous factory patch No.4 that is called Blade Titles) which can demonstrate that perfectly: it's the linearity and smoothness of the polyphonic aftertouch control over the cutoff and the other params that makes this sound alive and not so much the underlying sound design.

Hm, so there are 5 fixed pedal position steps and it’s not continuous. Doesn’t sound like a very good solution but hopefully it’s at least more reliable than the potentiometer ones. I wonder why they keep using these crappy Fatar sourced keybeds and pedals though.

Yep! I think someone on PW has confirmed those cr*ppy Kawai VPC1 triple-pedal units are made by Fatar but I might be wrong. In any case, the reason is they are potentiometer based and they eventually fail. On the other hand, I used a single half-pedal that came with Kawai ES7 for my DIY Cybrid project and it's an optical sensor unit that is very reliable since no moving part is used for producing/dividing voltage.

Is the Nord triple pedal unit using optical sensors like in the Yamaha and Kawai digital pianos or is it the same old Fatar potentiometer based pedal that fails after a while?

OK, I went back to the demo page and I think I remembered what I didn't like in the piano sounds: https://www.studiologic-music.com/products/numa_x_piano/sounds/ Listen to the first repeated note in the Model D 1968 demo but also listen to the first few measures from the new library A. Förster demo. When playing softly in the tenor and bass range there's an extreme dullness, lack of clarity, almost like a synth or a harp, no bright overtones, as though the piano is covered in blankets and is recorded from the other part of the room. I discovered that all the piano models exhibited that quality. Once I started playing stronger and higher up the keyboard, I enjoyed it a lot, but then I'm mostly a classical pianist and tend to have a very subtle and soft touch.

No, that firmware was released just a week or so after I returned the board. Besides the touch response that was not very optimal, I also didn't quite like the piano sounds which all had some synthetic character to them. But it could have been caused by the sub-optimal touch response at the time. I'll be interested in testing again the Numa with the latest firmware, it was a nice board for the price. Another "issue" I had with it was the interface. It was not bad at all but I really can't understand all the praises it gets. There were some inconsistencies I described earlier in this thread (don't remember already the details) and on paper it looked great but in reality I had to stop for a while and think which knob to push, tilt or turn... When I finally replaced it with the CP88 I was relieved with an interface that is IMO more intuitive and easy to use but I guess these are different type of boards where the CP is like a Nord with a button/knob for every function, whereas the Numa tries to find an intuitive UI with a small number of controls, so it's still a pretty good achievement what they did.