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How Are Windows 1903 and Apple Mojave Going for Ya? #3005001 08/25/19 11:56 PM
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Anderton Offline OP
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Well, it finally happened. My Windows 10 OS, which was installed over a Windows 7 install dating back about 7 years, finally became like a car where one day, it just died. I admit, it's been through a lot, but the fatal blow was the power going out during an update, and my uninterruptible power supply not having enough juice for it to complete the update. The OS was never the same after that, even after trying to repair itself several times.

So now I'm starting over from scratch with 1903. That means re-loading the image of the drive that won't boot so I can keep my personal files, and then when it won't boot, resetting the OS. Of course, the scariest words in the English language are "Windows is updating. Please don't turn off your computer" as you watch 3% go to 4%...then take a rest on that...then shoot up to 10%...then you wait some more...you get the idea. I'm currently in the watch and wait mode. There's also a chance that my problems have nothing to with the OS. but with my no-longer-supported-by-anyone fanless (that's why I've held on to it) AMD graphics card drivers. So if after the re-install and a reset the computer still won't boot, it's time for a trip to the PC Audio Labs office in Nashville. Maybe a new graphics card will fix everything.

As to my adventures in Mac-land, after the initial Mojave update that bricked my MacBook Pro, I'm happy to report that even since the Apple service people walked me through installing the OS from scratch, it's been working fine (except for those moments where it doesn't seem to remember it has a cursor).

So everyone, how about some words of encouragement about all the wonderful experiences you've had with 1903 and/or Mojave? I could use some encouragement 'round about now smile

(By the way...words of encouragement do not include "Hey, Linux is effing awesome!")

Re: How Are Windows 1903 and Apple Mojave Going for Ya? [Re: Anderton] #3005014 08/26/19 12:29 AM
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Well, that was unexpected. I re-imaged and booted. BSOD. So I knew what to do next: turn off, turn on...BSOD. Then the third time you turn off and turn on, Windows gives you troubleshooting options, like resetting your PC.

But the second time I rebooted, no BSOD. The screen went black for at least 2 minutes. Then I was at a fully functioning desktop.

Some things I will never understand. I'm not even going to try updating to 1903. If it ain't broke...or in my case, if it's only somewhat broke...

Re: How Are Windows 1903 and Apple Mojave Going for Ya? [Re: Anderton] #3005017 08/26/19 12:53 AM
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I never update Windows anymore. I buy a new OS drive, install a clean copy, then connect the old OS drive and transfer files. But, to do that you have to have an install disc. On Mac, fore which I have no install disk, I just hit the update button and pray.

Re: How Are Windows 1903 and Apple Mojave Going for Ya? [Re: Anderton] #3005040 08/26/19 03:19 AM
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My Mac is too old for Mojave, so still on High Sierra. I have had one time that a Mac OS update resulted in a non-booting computer, but was able to load just the OS over network, then restore from Time Machine. I have made bootable Mac OS flash drives for install for all major versions since 10.6 Snow Leopard through High Sierra (can't do one for Mojave from my Mac) which come in very useful if I need to re-do a client machine with the existing OS and don't want it on a later version. One of my company's specialties is "making Apple and Microsoft PLAY NICE" - in other words work well together for environments where both are used.

On the PC side, I do a fair number of Windows 10 version updates, between my own 14 instances (3 of which are VM running under Parallels on the Mac) and my clients. For some reason, the most reliable method of version update I've had involves downloading the Windows Update Assistant, and kicking off the update using it - so far zero failures using that method. On my own gear, I backup the OS using Acronis True Image before, so I can always get back to where I was.

The update appears to run in spurts (percentage), because it goes through a lot of different procedures, some of which can vary a lot on how long they take, and the percentage indicator will stick at numerous points, then hop ahead when that particular part of the install completes. Longest of these appears in the latter part of the install, when Windows is taking each and every program on the computer and moving the registry entries for that specific program from the Windows.old (or similar) directory to the new Windows directory. Time it takes for that can vary from 10 minutes to 24 hours, depending on how fast the computer itself is - processor, amount of RAM, and hard drive/ssd, and on just how many and what type programs are on the machine. I've had machines finish the whole update in less than 30 minutes, and some very slow older machines that took overnight to finish.

I don't know which version you presently have on the Windows box, but 1903 seems to have cleared some issues from the not well loved 1809 version. It also (for the first time) is not automatically forcing the upgrade (although this will likely change at some point), and even brings up some smaller updates with a prompt on whether to install or not - which is a GREAT help in that I really don't want my company Windows notebook to start an update while I'm using it at a client site. Also, one can postpone all updates for up to a week or so with an adjustment.

The screen going black for a couple of minutes probably was so that Windows could update the desktop. BTW, the first of the two yearly updates is the one that is supported by Microsoft for a longer period of time before zero more updates become available for that version.


Howard Grand|Hamm SK1-73|Kurz PC2|PC2X|PC3|PC3X|PC361; QSC K10's
HP DAW|Epi Les Paul & LP 5-str bass|iPad mini2
"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
Jim
Re: How Are Windows 1903 and Apple Mojave Going for Ya? [Re: Anderton] #3005064 08/26/19 11:15 AM
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Windows 1903? I'm really behind the times. The newest version I have is Windows 7. It only updates when I ask it to, which, after an update after a new installation, is never. I'm crossing my fingers that I'll go deaf or demented before I want to use some software that won't run under Windows 7 - but then I said that when my newest OS WinXP. wink

Re: How Are Windows 1903 and Apple Mojave Going for Ya? [Re: MoodyBluesKeys] #3005142 08/26/19 05:27 PM
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Anderton Offline OP
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Originally Posted by MoodyBluesKeys
On the PC side, I do a fair number of Windows 10 version updates, between my own 14 instances (3 of which are VM running under Parallels on the Mac) and my clients. For some reason, the most reliable method of version update I've had involves downloading the Windows Update Assistant, and kicking off the update using it - so far zero failures using that method.


That's what I did in trying to go from 1809 to 1903, but it didn't work. After re-imaging, I postponed future updates and it's working fine at the moment. But I know that as soon as I try an update, it will fail.

What happens is the Windows window appears, and the snake starts chasing its tail for only a few seconds before the BSOD appears. So I'm assuming (a little knowledge is a dangerous thing!) that the computer is running into something problematic very early in the process of booting. Think that might be related to the graphics card?
[/quote]

Last edited by Anderton; 08/27/19 05:57 PM.
Re: How Are Windows 1903 and Apple Mojave Going for Ya? [Re: Anderton] #3005320 08/27/19 04:37 PM
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Possibly graphics card, but hard to tell. My assumption (correct if needed) from your statement is that the update seems to proceed normally in initial stages, but when it reaches the point of rebooting the computer, once that is done, the BSOD happens. Most of the time, these type errors happen because Windows gets indigestion from one or more of the multitude of driver files on the specific computer.

Possible helpful Links:
Microsoft Forum link

tenforums link

What Stop Code shows on the BSOD screen?

windowsreport.com link

Also possible that using the Media Builder to download an ISO image of 1903, burning that either to DVD or Flash Drive, and installing from that might be of help.


Howard Grand|Hamm SK1-73|Kurz PC2|PC2X|PC3|PC3X|PC361; QSC K10's
HP DAW|Epi Les Paul & LP 5-str bass|iPad mini2
"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
Jim
Re: How Are Windows 1903 and Apple Mojave Going for Ya? [Re: MoodyBluesKeys] #3005336 08/27/19 05:56 PM
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Anderton Offline OP
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Originally Posted by MoodyBluesKeys
Possibly graphics card, but hard to tell. My assumption (correct if needed) from your statement is that the update seems to proceed normally in initial stages, but when it reaches the point of rebooting the computer, once that is done, the BSOD happens. Most of the time, these type errors happen because Windows gets indigestion from one or more of the multitude of driver files on the specific computer.


Yes. The update seems to proceed normally, and then when it finishes, I have to reboot the computer. When I do, it appears to be start okay, but shortly after the graphic of the Window appears, and the circular dots start moving, the dots move for only a half-rotation or so before the computer BSODs with a SYSTEM THREAD EXCEPTION NOT HANDLED.

The tip in one of your references about PNPCLEAN seems promising. Using the media builder doesn't help, the update does seem to install okay, it just can't make it into the Windows desktop. This has happened with 1903 but also happened with other, lesser updates in the past. Those fixes involved either doing a System Restore for quality updates, or re-imaging the drive.

The graphics card (Radeon, don't recall the number offhand, not at my main computer) is no longer supported by the manufacturer, and claims it won't work under Windows 10. However, Microsoft installs a driver for it with updates. Now that I think about it, the driver may be for a different, and just happens to "mostly work."

Question: If I disable the driver and restart, will Windows ask if I want to install a custom driver, and if I say no, it will install its generic video driver? I don't need high frame rates to play Doom, I just need to throw pixels on a screen. Or would I have to uninstall the driver, not just disable it? And if so, if I set a system restore point, will it be able to go back to it?

Re: How Are Windows 1903 and Apple Mojave Going for Ya? [Re: Anderton] #3005449 08/28/19 03:12 AM
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Method 2 and Method 3 of this link might be helpful. If you can get into Safe Mode or even Command Prompt mode, you should be able to remove the existing graphics driver. As to whether or not Microsoft can come up with a workable driver, maybe. Method 3 deals specifically with graphics drivers that do not have a Windows 10 version (how to run the driver in compatibility mode).
Microsoft answers link

In all honesty, if you go on Ebay you should be able to find a Win 10 compatible video card for a modest price. I have standardized on AMD Firepro V3900 video cards for most of my W 8.1 and W 10 systems. The card has 1GB of RAM, and is considered a lower end professional workstation (i.e. for CAD and similar use) card, and was originally quite expensive. Handles video rendering well on the 8.1 systems which are used for HDTV recording and playback. I find the cards used for generally less than $50. The fans on the card have an occasional habit of dying on machines that run 24x7, so I keep a supply of spares. What happens then is that the heat sensor on the card will shut down the video to protect the card. I'm sure there are lots of other cards that would work with no problem.

Sometimes, a hardware change that can be done at moderate expense is the best way to handle a situation. With Microsoft making changes to W10 twice yearly, I'd really give the idea of changing video card a try as the simplest way for long term cure.


Howard Grand|Hamm SK1-73|Kurz PC2|PC2X|PC3|PC3X|PC361; QSC K10's
HP DAW|Epi Les Paul & LP 5-str bass|iPad mini2
"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
Jim
Re: How Are Windows 1903 and Apple Mojave Going for Ya? [Re: Anderton] #3005533 08/28/19 07:07 PM
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You're right about a new graphics card, it's just hard to find one that doesn't have a fan. Meanwhile, I'll be trying your other potential solutions...thanks!

Re: How Are Windows 1903 and Apple Mojave Going for Ya? [Re: Anderton] #3005549 08/28/19 09:26 PM
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The fan on the card I mentioned is a little pancake fan, and is almost inaudible with the computer open - but the main fan on the computer does make enough sound that I can't say that it is completely noiseless.


Howard Grand|Hamm SK1-73|Kurz PC2|PC2X|PC3|PC3X|PC361; QSC K10's
HP DAW|Epi Les Paul & LP 5-str bass|iPad mini2
"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
Jim
Re: How Are Windows 1903 and Apple Mojave Going for Ya? [Re: Anderton] #3006775 09/06/19 12:34 AM
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I have 4 computers updated to Win10, 1903, and overall it has been good. One 9 year old lap top and one 10 year old ‘Rain’ built desk top both updated smoothly from Win7 and run much better on Win 10. The newer laptop had a few hiccups updating, but waiting, waiting and waiting while the install occurred was a trial of my patience, but the computer eventually booted. Reading some articles from Microsoft and Win 10 forum convinced me to just wait as the new OS processed and installed rather than trying to reboot. The other brand new desktop came with Win10.

Early on in Win10 monthly updates, the usb ‘sleep to save battery’ settings were reset for whatever reason. Played havoc with the usb devices. Recently that appears to have stopped. But I still check the privacy settings as sometimes they changed.

Overall I am happy with Win 10.

Last edited by balinas; 09/06/19 12:35 AM. Reason: Mispell
Re: How Are Windows 1903 and Apple Mojave Going for Ya? [Re: Anderton] #3006798 09/06/19 03:16 AM
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Welcome, balinas

Length of time for W10 updates is heavily dependent on processor, how much RAM, HD or SSD speed; and the fact that every program loaded on the computer must individually have Registry settings transferred from the older version to the newer. The percentage of completion indicator moves in spurts, because it has to finish one section before it increments upward. I've had computers (including clients) upgrade completely in less than 30 minutes, and others take 12-20 hours (not sure exactly when finished, since left running overnight).
For some reason, various registry settings do need to be checked with every update. The USB sleep one I always check on one commercial client, because their backup is to USB external drives (image backup), and the machine will forget it has external drives.

Do expect two overall version updates each year - usually identified by yy03 and yy09 (where yy is last two digits of year), even though they may not be actually released in March and September. W10 is also quite a bit more secure than the W7 systems.


Howard Grand|Hamm SK1-73|Kurz PC2|PC2X|PC3|PC3X|PC361; QSC K10's
HP DAW|Epi Les Paul & LP 5-str bass|iPad mini2
"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
Jim

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