iPad Pro 2021, M1 and Thunderbolt

[ElmerJFudd]

' On Tuesday, Apple is expected to go even further. The company is rumored to be releasing a new iMac at its Spring Loaded product event, which could also include new iPads. So there's now a possibility that a new iMac desktop will also be powered by the M1.'

 

Cnet rumor mongering. If there is an iMac bump. Will it be M1 based?

[Kawai James]

' On Tuesday, Apple is expected to go even further. The company is rumored to be releasing a new iMac at its Spring Loaded product event, which could also include new iPads. So there's now a possibility that a new iMac desktop will also be powered by the M1.'

 

Cnet rumor mongering. If there is an iMac bump. Will it be M1 based?

 

Luke Miani suggested that it could be a new entry-level iMac to replace the dreadful dual-core model that he laid into a few weeks ago:

 

[video:youtube]

 

Cheers,

James

x

[tfort]

Just watched the Apple Event. New iPad Pros have USB4 and Thunderbolt. Will be great for audio!

 

edit: StaffPad was featured very briefly during the iPad Pro presentation (at 52:36 if you care to watch)...

[Lady Gaia]

Fascinating. I was quite surprised to see the use of an M-series branded SoC in the iPad Pro, and even more surprised to see that the 1TB and 2TB storage versions have 16GB of RAM. We may well see a renaissance of aggressive iPadOS apps to take advantage of the growing capabilities of the device. Perhaps even drivers for audio interfaces over Thunderbolt? I'm not holding my breath, but it's an intriguing possibility.

 

The 24" iMac being M1-based leaves the door wide open for the larger model (32"?) to be based on whatever processor they introduce alongside the larger MacBook Pro models. M1X seems likely given past branding, and "iMac Pro" might well be used to describe the more capable systems. I'd also expect less playful colors, just like the iPhone / iPhone Pro models.

[ElmerJFudd]

Here is the M1 iMac pricings...

 

Of course we expect it to do Logic and plugins like the M1 Mac Mini. If the GPU can also crunch Final Cut Pro relatively well, very interested.

 

https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/imac

 

M1 iPad Pro

https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-ipad/ipad-pro

 

Logic / MainStage on iPad OS seems inevitable.

[tfort]

Would drivers even be necessary for Thunderbolt 3? What does class-compliant mean these days with USB4 incorporating TB3?

 

I can't imagine that you couldn't just plug in a USB or Thunderbolt audio interface into one of the new iPad Pros and have it "just work."

 

And with 8GB/16GB RAM on the iPad Pros, surely a new version of Logic supporting touch on the iPad will be announced soon...?

[ElmerJFudd]

If the interface developer uses apple"s class compliant driver, does not require a proprietary driver installed by the user, then I believe this is already in Big Sur for M1 Macs. The example being the M1 Mac mini running Logic with built in audio chipset.

[paulnajar]

Those speculating about class compliant audio drivers and hardware that can take advantage are perhaps overlooking (at least) one thing. The round trip latencies of CC devices is far worse than a well written proprietary driver. As an example I recently did a test with an RME interface that can use it's own driver or use a CC mode. RTL at 32 sample buffer @ 44.1Khz using RME driver was 3.1ms. The same device using CC mode the RTL was 5.4ms - almost double.

 

Don't take my word for it. Do your own tests. For any serious recording work where low RTL is essential, class compliant drivers do not cut it.

 

Even for just playing MainStage or similar from keyboards or VI's in your studio, the CC device puts output latency at over 2ms. Even my lowly Focusrite Scarlett Gen2 offers 1.4ms for output latency via it's own driver.

[Lady Gaia]

One of the big changes in driver design that vendors just went through with Big Sur is that, without asking your users to jump through hoops to disable layers of security, you can no longer deliver kernel-mode drivers. This closes a massive security loophole and opens the door to user-mode drivers that would be a little more iOS friendly - but the whole notion of a driver for an iOS or iPadOS device is still pretty alien.

 

At the moment things like USB class drivers don't automatically extend to Thunderbolt connections. I had to use my MOTU 828es with a connection to the device's USB port until Thunderbolt drivers became available, and it would doubtless be the same story on the new iPad Pro. At least initially. So the Thunderbolt port is most valuable for connecting to docks/hubs, displays, and storage.

[ElmerJFudd]

Yes, there"s going to be benefits when a company like RME does propriety drivers for their hardware. Not that the class compliant driver is bad, just that RME can do better for their silicon, and that"s part of their selling point. Thankfully, RME is ready to go on M1 Big Sur. MOTU announced their UltraLite-mk5 is also ready.

[Lady Gaia]

MOTU announced their UltraLite-mk5 is also ready.

 

The software suite was also updated with Big Sur and M1 support for their entire AVB lineup on the same day - and it has been working flawlessly for me.

[ElmerJFudd]

The performance boost for audio processing alone is significant enough to get people to switch over as the line up makes the transition. And in usually Apple fashion, chatter and cussing about the switch will pass as developers get their plugins and drivers done.

 

I"m curious how the M1 graphics cores handle video editing. I guess we"ll have to wait for the M1 MacBook Pro to see what they decide to do for graphics power.

[RABid]

Well, my M1 Air is now here. Starting the long process of downloading and installing everything again. The Apple utility for transferring from another computer is all or nothing and makes no provisions for using an external drive.

 

Watched the Apple event. Thought it was one of the most boring ever. M1 iMacs are priced right but I don''t really need them to be that thin.

 

Lots of talk on the new M1 iPad but they never addressed the thing that interest me, will it run Logic and when?

[analogika]

Lots of talk on the new M1 iPad but they never addressed the thing that interest me, will it run Logic and when?

It will run Logic when either Logic is ported to iOS, or iPad runs macOS.

 

It does run GarageBandâ¦

[Noah DC]

 

I can't imagine that you couldn't just plug in a USB or Thunderbolt audio interface into one of the new iPad Pros and have it "just work.'

 

For what it"s worth, after toying with going the cheaper route for a beater music-only ipad, I got a good deal on the newer USB-C IPad Air 4. And yes, I was surprised to find that what you are describing is in fact the case: I took my old NI Komplete Audio 6 interface, plugged it into a Nucleum USB-C hub, and it just ... worked â no latency whatsoever for Ravenscroft or any of my other plugins.

[RABid]

Ran into my first problem. Attached my external SSD and started to install Reason. It will only install to the drive containing the OS. Reason expansions give you no choice of where to install.

[ElmerJFudd]

Well, my M1 Air is now here. Starting the long process of downloading and installing everything again. The Apple utility for transferring from another computer is all or nothing and makes no provisions for using an external drive.

 

Watched the Apple event. Thought it was one of the most boring ever. M1 iMacs are priced right but I don''t really need them to be that thin.

 

Lots of talk on the new M1 iPad but they never addressed the thing that interest me, will it run Logic and when?

 

 

I watched some of the audience-less event. If not exciting, very high production values - wether stylistically ones thing or not - very well planned, shot and edited.

 

Generally, the speakers, mic, camera and display on iMacs have been excellent for a long time. I don"t see this incarnation falling short. The logic board on this M1 iMac is so small, there"s no reason for the case not to be thin.

[Biggles]

I nearly order a new iPad a couple of months ago but after doing some research found the rumours of new gear in the Spring so decided to hold off.

 

So glad I did.

 

Only disappointment is the new 11 inch iPad does not have the XDR display that the 12.7 inch version does.

 

Credit card time on the 30th

[Stokely]

Hmm, really dumb non-techie question here--I mean, I am a database dev but I know crap about devices and building software!--piggybacking on the Ipad running logic question: would there be any chance an ipad could run audio plugins that I use on my mac? Thinking very specifically about uhe's repro....or simply put would u-he have to come out with an ios version.

 

I am mainly using an ipad just for b3-x and I know there are capable synths already on ios, but I do love me some Repro and Diva (and Thorn, and...and...)

 

As an aside, removing the tiny, cheap headphone amp and port is just ludicrous and stupid IMO if they do that. I use the one on my ipad v4 all the time.

[tfort]

That's a question better addressed by U-He. It's technically possible, as the new iPad Pros use the same processor as the Apple Silicon desktop Macs. But, iPads use a touchscreen interface and iOS, and the Macs use a keyboard and mouse and MacOS. Much of the underlying code is the same, so the process of supporting both MacOS and iOS going forward should be much easier than in the pre-Apple Silicon days. And with Apple allowing universal app purchasing, developers can sell you their software once and have you be able to download and use it on both iOS and MacOS. Apple has also created some developer software which helps in moving software from iOS to MacOS, but not the reverse so far as I know.

https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/04/13/omniplan-4-highlights-complexity-of-apples-universal-purchase-feature

 

Getting back to your question: either Apple would have to create a "desktop mode," allowing an iPad to act like an Mac when a keyboard and pointing device are connected, or U-He will have to develop a version of its synths that can run on iOS and be functional with a touchscreen interface.

We will get some news from Apple on its software developments coming in the fall at WWDC on June 7th; U-He might be able to give you some info on its plans sooner.

 

There was an article out today on MacWorld about just this issue with Apple's own Mac software not running on iPads:

https://www.macworld.com/article/343907/ipad-pro-thunderbolt-micro-led-xdr-display-m1-apps-speed.html

[Biggles]

That's a question better addressed by U-He. It's technically possible, as the new iPad Pros use the same processor as the Apple Silicon desktop Macs. But, iPads use a touchscreen interface and iOS, and the Macs use a keyboard and mouse and MacOS. Much of the underlying code is the same, so the process of supporting both MacOS and iOS going forward should be much easier than in the pre-Apple Silicon days. And with Apple allowing universal app purchasing, developers can sell you their software once and have you be able to download and use it on both iOS and MacOS. Apple has also created some developer software which helps in moving software from iOS to MacOS, but not the reverse so far as I know.

https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/04/13/omniplan-4-highlights-complexity-of-apples-universal-purchase-feature

 

Getting back to your question: either Apple would have to create a "desktop mode," allowing an iPad to act like an Mac when a keyboard and pointing device are connected, or U-He will have to develop a version of its synths that can run on iOS and be functional with a touchscreen interface.

We will get some news from Apple on its software developments coming in the fall at WWDC on June 7th; U-He might be able to give you some info on its plans sooner.

 

There was an article out today on MacWorld about just this issue with Apple's own Mac software not running on iPads:

https://www.macworld.com/article/343907/ipad-pro-thunderbolt-micro-led-xdr-display-m1-apps-speed.html

 

The keyboard accessory can have a built in trackpad so some form of code will surely be in the iPad to interact with the accessory?

[Anderton]

Ran into my first problem. Attached my external SSD and started to install Reason. It will only install to the drive containing the OS. Reason expansions give you no choice of where to install.

 

Also it looks like there will never be a ReWire library for Apple silicon, if that matters to you.

[Lady Gaia]

The keyboard accessory can have a built in trackpad so some form of code will surely be in the iPad to interact with the accessory?

 

It's true that iOS has trackpad and keyboard support, but the interactions are still quite different from macOS. It's designed as a touch-first device and the software development kit reflects that quite strongly in the way apps are written for iOS. A lot of foundational pieces are the same, but the actual user interface is distinct enough that developers generally have quite a bit of work to do in order to move from one to the other. There are also a lot of legacy services on macOS that don't have iOS equivalents.

 

Still, Apple has been slowly making it easier for developers to target both. The guidance that it's best to ask U-he is solid, as they could already decide to release iOS plug-ins if they wanted. I think it's not al that likely that Apple will open the iPad up to supporting a full macOS experience, but you never know. I was surprised to see that the 1TB and 2TB iPad Pro now include 16GB of RAM so they're certainly up to the task! It's more a question of positioning and user experience, as Apple has generally resisted blurring the lines between their touch experience and mouse/keyboard usage.

[Stokely]

That's a question better addressed by U-He. It's technically possible, as the new iPad Pros use the same processor as the Apple Silicon desktop Macs. But, iPads use a touchscreen interface and iOS, and the Macs use a keyboard and mouse and MacOS. Much of the underlying code is the same, so the process of supporting both MacOS and iOS going forward should be much easier than in the pre-Apple Silicon days. And with Apple allowing universal app purchasing, developers can sell you their software once and have you be able to download and use it on both iOS and MacOS. Apple has also created some developer software which helps in moving software from iOS to MacOS, but not the reverse so far as I know.

https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/04/13/omniplan-4-highlights-complexity-of-apples-universal-purchase-feature

 

Getting back to your question: either Apple would have to create a "desktop mode," allowing an iPad to act like an Mac when a keyboard and pointing device are connected, or U-He will have to develop a version of its synths that can run on iOS and be functional with a touchscreen interface.

We will get some news from Apple on its software developments coming in the fall at WWDC on June 7th; U-He might be able to give you some info on its plans sooner.

 

There was an article out today on MacWorld about just this issue with Apple's own Mac software not running on iPads:

https://www.macworld.com/article/343907/ipad-pro-thunderbolt-micro-led-xdr-display-m1-apps-speed.html

 

Thanks, it actually seems more possible that I would have thought. Pretty exciting stuff!

 

An ipad is far easier logistically to put into a rig than a laptop. Mainly there's not a safe and handy place to put the laptop, whereas I use a combo of gaffer's tape and velcro to put the ipad on the right side of my Modx7. it's flat of course and so sits under a top keyboard, a laptop of course couldn't open even if it fit there (which it wouldn't).

[ElmerJFudd]

A few thoughts.

 

Garage Band and Logic are the same code. Apple developed different GUIs and turned this or that on/off between these two software titles. Logic on an iPad isn"t a stretch. It"s a question of wether or not they want to do it. The pro apps still drive Mac sales. Also, what is an acceptable touch screen GUI for Logic that would meet their standards and our needs. Macs still don"t have touch screens for a reason.

 

If they did do Logic Pro for iPad OS - how would they implement third party plug-in support. Many music/audio apps for iOS are already written as AU3. This makes it easier for developers to write and maintain their software for both Mac OS and iOS. But iOS is sand boxed. So plug-in developers would have to sell their plugins through the App Store, giving Apple 30%. And I guess they would have to do an IAP - sort of a store within a store for third party plug-ins.

[zeronyne]

Ran into my first problem. Attached my external SSD and started to install Reason. It will only install to the drive containing the OS. Reason expansions give you no choice of where to install.

 

Also it looks like there will never be a ReWire library for Apple silicon, if that matters to you.

 

This is less of a concern now that Reason can live as a plug in.

[RABid]

...

 

An ipad is far easier logistically to put into a rig than a laptop. Mainly there's not a safe and handy place to put the laptop, whereas I use a combo of gaffer's tape and velcro to put the ipad on the right side of my Modx7. it's flat of course and so sits under a top keyboard, a laptop of course couldn't open even if it fit there (which it wouldn't).

 

I take the opposite side. And iPad needs a stand, a notebook can sit on a shelf or on top of some keyboards. A notebook also has input and output options without having to rely on dongles or hubs. The notebook also has access to a much larger selection of VST's and large sample libraries.

[tfort]

 

The keyboard accessory can have a built in trackpad so some form of code will surely be in the iPad to interact with the accessory?

 

Sure. I have the Magic Keyboard for my 2018 12.9" iPad Pro, and had a Brydge keyboard before that. But Apple isn't likely to put out Logic (or allow other developers' apps) for the iPad in a form that _requires_ a keyboard and mouse equivalent, just as for the longest time Apple wouldn't allow games for the AppleTV that required a third-party controller.

 

I think Apple has been waiting for the iPad Pro to have enough memory to run Logic before releasing it for the iPad; hopefully now it will do so soon. Remember that Apple has already figured out a lot of the user interfaces issues for using Logic on the iPad, as the Logic Remote app has been out for a while.

[Docbop]

I think Apple has been waiting for the iPad Pro to have enough memory to run Logic before releasing it for the iPad; hopefully now it will do so soon. Remember that Apple has already figured out a lot of the user interfaces issues for using Logic on the iPad, as the Logic Remote app has been out for a while.

 

Apple mainly targets USER class devices for people doing real production Apple has/had iMac Pro and Mac Pro both start(ed) at about $5000. Sure a lot of people are using the USER class devices for prosumer work, Apple just sees that as a fringe benefit.

[tfort]

I think it's not al that likely that Apple will open the iPad up to supporting a full macOS experience, but you never know. I was surprised to see that the 1TB and 2TB iPad Pro now include 16GB of RAM so they're certainly up to the task! It's more a question of positioning and user experience, as Apple has generally resisted blurring the lines between their touch experience and mouse/keyboard usage.

 

The topic of Apple's iPad OS being underpowered for its iPad Pros is in the news today.

 

Some are calling for full MacOS on iPads:

https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/22/22396449/apple-ipad-pro-macbook-air-macos-2021

 

While leaks are starting to come out ahead of WWDC regarding the tweaks Apple will give iPad OS 15 in the fall:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-22/apple-plans-notifications-ipad-home-screen-upgrades-for-ios-15

 

As I said earlier, I think Apple will come out with iPad OS versions of its own apps and pro apps soon. It would appear to be two or three years (at least) until iPad OS 16 or 17 before the iPad takes significant steps toward being more Mac-like.

 

edit: saw this article in today's Independent that also is about this issue:

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/ipad-pro-apple-interview-m1-explained-b1835934.html