Super 8 Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by aeon: [b] [quote][i]Super 8 said:[/i] [b]I think we can all agree that we want to live in a secure nation, where the 'bad guy' gets caught or stopped before he does harm. [/b][/quote]Speak for yourself. If someone has not done something (yet), they have no reason to be stopped. Yes...Amerikka is a great place to live. ALL HAIL THE HOMELAND! :thu: [/b][/quote]Please don't start that Chip McDonald 'All Hail' crap... It's wearing a little thin. Ugh! God, you cynics need to be slapped... Look, WHAT I MEANT (please read this carefully) by saying [i]"the 'bad guy' gets caught or stopped before he does harm"[/i], was really referring to people attempting to commit a crime. Example, catching the drunk driver BEFORE he runs your children over, catching the bomber BEFORE he detonates the bomb. I wasn't referring to that Tom Cruise movie where they know they have the ability to tell the future and then prevent things from happening. There's no reason to assume the worst here. I'm just trying to establish a fundamental commonality that we can all work from. Can we do that? Super 8 Hear my stuff here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotown Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Chip McDonald: John Poindexter heads the new Office of Information Awareness. John Poindexter: convicted of conspiracy, lying to Congress, defrauding the government, and destroying evidence in the Iran Contra scandal... [/quote]Super8 wrote: [quote]There's no reason to assume the worst here. I'm just trying to establish a fundamental commonality that we can all work from. Can we do that?[/quote]Thats where you are wrong, or at least extremely tired. Appointing a convicted criminal to head such a sensitive agency is every reason to assume the worst here. What could be worse? :evil: And why doesn't the appointment of this criminal alarm you? :confused: Jotown:) "It's all good: Except when it's Great" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmix Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Jotown: [b][QUOTE]Thats where you are wrong, or at least extremely tired. Appointing a convicted criminal to head such a sensitive agency is every reason to assume the worst here. What could be worse? :evil: And why doesn't the appointment of this criminal alarm you? :confused: [/b][/quote]Because we already had a rapist in the oval office ? I don't know, maybe we're all desensitized. Rob Rob Hoffman http://www.robmixmusic.com Los Angeles, CA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotown Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 [quote]Because we already had a rapist in the oval office ? I don't know, maybe we're all desensitized.[/quote]C'mon now, there is no reason for you to start slinging mud at former president George Bush senior is there? :rolleyes: Jotown:) "It's all good: Except when it's Great" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip McDonald Posted March 31, 2003 Author Share Posted March 31, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by NYC:Drew: [b]Chip, It takes more to cull, archive, capture and manage the data than we will ever have. Even today the USA is way behind in processing the electronic data it eavesdrop on. [/b][/quote]It *did* at one point, no longer. It's a matter of collation, not reintegrating. If you have access to 2 separate databases, you simply make it so that a 3rd can reference fields in the other 2. The trick is making everything compatable, which is just a technicality. Additionally, it's not a matter of endless motion capture. Identification software crossreferencing a target doesn't have to actually store the visual imagery of what it's parsing. It finds a match and then tags it. Storage space and processing speed will not be an issue in a few years. I presume it's probably already not an issue for the government in some black programs, presuming they're the usual 5-10 years ahead. Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/ / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip McDonald Posted March 31, 2003 Author Share Posted March 31, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by C.Me now or C.Me later: [b]The Gov. has been tracking us for years, its called a social security number(bar code).[/b][/quote]But the government hasn't been able to use that number to instantly retrieve your bank account, crossreferenced info about where you used your credit card, what you bought and when, where you've been and where you "normally" go. That's all already out there, but it's not all open. They want it all open. That, combined with a bunch of new surveillance initiatives. Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/ / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip McDonald Posted March 31, 2003 Author Share Posted March 31, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Super 8: [b]going to require an immense infrastructure, and it's going to be REALLY expensive. Going to all of this trouble JUST to have the ability to know what time every man, woman, and child, in North America takes a shit hardly justifies the effort. To top it off we have things like laws and constitutional rights that are there to protect us. It seems very bloated and inefficient to me.[/b][/quote]The point isn't to know where everyone is at any one moment, but to have the ability to find that out when requested. ...and now, just for you Super8... let's hear it, ready..? ALL HAIL THE HOMELAND! Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/ / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip McDonald Posted March 31, 2003 Author Share Posted March 31, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by 'rold: [b]Didn't the camera thing happen in London, UK as well? [/b][/quote]It's happening big time in the U.S.. It's a matter of philosophy. The idea of FREEDOM isn't freedom from *potential* crime. What's amazing is that somehow, over the last 15 years, the idea of invasion of privacy has completely evaporated. Poof, gone. No one seems the least bit bothered if someone is gawking at them with a hidden camera in a store, or watching them drive to work, listening to their phone conversations. No one cares. Well, I do, sorry. 20 years ago in this country it wasn't even a question. Amazing. Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/ / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mats Olsson. Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 I wish there was a common policy on all things. I remember a great say by some philosopher whose name I don't remember. This little list can be used in all sorts of projects. When you are about to decide on something, make sure it fits in this profile: 1. Is the project feasible, can it be done? 2. Is economically justifiable? 3. Is it socially desireable? If not all criteria is easily fulfilled = bad idea. /Mats http://www.lexam.net/peter/carnut/man.gif What do we want? Procrastination! When do we want it? Later! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip McDonald Posted March 31, 2003 Author Share Posted March 31, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Super 8: [b]Please don't start that Chip McDonald 'All Hail' crap... It's wearing a little thin. Ugh! God, you cynics need to be slapped...[/b][/quote]Up yers. [b]WAR IS PEACE![/b] [b]A L L H A I L T H E H O M E L A N D![/b] [b]WHAT I MEANT (please read this carefully) by saying [i]"the 'bad guy' gets caught or stopped before he does harm"[/i], was really referring to people attempting to commit a crime. Example, [/b] They used to catch a lot of people before they had a chance to commit a crime in the Soviet Union. [b]catching the drunk driver BEFORE he runs your children over, catching the bomber BEFORE he detonates the bomb.[/b] Well, if you follow that idea through then let's ban alchohol, huh? Ban the sale of anything you can make a bomb out of while we're at it. That would be very SAFE. The U.S. was founded on a concept not based upon enforcing a set of rules to prevent crime from occuring, but to enforce a set of rules to insure a *concept* of freedom could happen. It runs completely counter to the intent of the founding of this nation to allow spying as a means of crime prevention. Even with that aside - what of the question of abuse? What silly person would try to argue that it would NEVER be abused? That it's not *prone* to being abused? There's 50 thousand ways of making the U.S. safer. I wouldn't want to live here, though. Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/ / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Borland Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 To be honest, I'm more worried about companies like Microsoft than I am the government. I thought Microsoft was the government! Growing old is inevitable....Growing up is optional ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYCDrew1642606430 Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Chip, I'm in the business of developing, installing and supporting information technology. I have worked on many types of projects I will never mention here - for institutions that have been mentioned on these threads. I reiterate that we will always be behind the 8 ball with regards to being able to sort and process the data we capture - irrespective of any advances in hardware and/or software. On the upside, those advances are making it easier to store much more, and to sort much more, and at better "resolutions" (hey Nika, leave it alone!! ;) ). One of the problems that all data collecting agencies - especially intelligence faces is...at the point of data capture, it can be difficult to determine what's food and what's trash, so you try to grab as much as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip McDonald Posted March 31, 2003 Author Share Posted March 31, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by NYC:Drew: [b]I reiterate that we will always be behind the 8 ball with regards to being able to sort and process the data we capture - irrespective of any advances in hardware and/or software.[/b][/quote]They're not talking about sorting a mass of data, they're talking about essentially having a common interface for all of what's already there. We've already got the traffic and city camera infrastructure started, it's not like it would be a big deal to hang an extra PC at the HQ in each city to keep a running list of each registered vehicle/person's where abouts everyday, and have that there available for searching at a later date. Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/ / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeVW Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Brittanylips: [b]I was flying to LA with a friend of mine, a composer who has an olive complexion and dreadlocks. He too was "randomly" searched. Apparently, every single time he flies, he is "randomly" chosen to be completely searched! -Peace, Love, and Brittanylips[/b][/quote]Funny, it's the same with my dreadlock wearing wife. Suddenly, those searches don't seem quite so 'random', do they? George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mars_dup1 Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Chip McDonald: [b] ALL HAIL THE HOMELAND![/b][/quote]BTW - anyone know where this "Homeland" crap came from anyway? I can't EVER recall anyone referring to America thus prior to 9/11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotown Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 I think it was borrowed from the famous Rhienland,(Homeland) propaganda campaign used by some guy named Hitler. :D Jotown:) "It's all good: Except when it's Great" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super 8 Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Jotown: [b]Super8 wrote: [quote]There's no reason to assume the worst here. I'm just trying to establish a fundamental commonality that we can all work from. Can we do that?[/quote]Thats where you are wrong, or at least extremely tired. Appointing a convicted criminal to head such a sensitive agency is every reason to assume the worst here. What could be worse? :evil: And why doesn't the appointment of this criminal alarm you? :confused: [/b][/quote]I wasn't even talking about Poindexter, Jotown. Please go back and read the post I was refering to BEFORE you start drawing your conclusions. Super 8 Hear my stuff here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super 8 Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Chip McDonald: [b] [quote]Originally posted by Super 8: [b]Please don't start that Chip McDonald 'All Hail' crap... It's wearing a little thin. Ugh! God, you cynics need to be slapped...[/b][/quote]Up yers..[/b][/quote]No... UP YERS, dude... If you expect people to buy in to these things you post, you can start by taking a less abrasive approach. There are people -myself included- who find your sarcasitic little tag pretty damn offensive. Super 8 Hear my stuff here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotown Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 [quote]I wasn't even talking about Poindexter, Jotown. Please go back and read the post I was refering to BEFORE you start drawing your conclusions.[/quote]This thread is about Poindexters appointment. It is in the first line of the first sentence of the first post. And you still haven't answered the question I posed in my post. :confused: Jotown:) "It's all good: Except when it's Great" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super 8 Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Jotown: [b][QUOTE] And you still haven't answered the question I posed in my post. :confused: [/b][/quote]I don't have an opinion about it. Have you researched him? What have you found out? Got any links? This thread -by the way- is about gathering info on people, and I was addressing that in my former post. So I was on topic. Super 8 Hear my stuff here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotown Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 Listen Super 8, I was no attacking you. I assumed that you read my previous posts as well. I guess you hadn't. No biggie. :) Jotown:) "It's all good: Except when it's Great" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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