Fuzz vs. Distortion

[phaeton]

Instead of polluting BlueMood's thread, i'll ask separately-

 

What's the key differences between fuzz and distortion? For awhile i thought it was mostly about whether or not you include the bass frequencies in the clipping, but now that i've looked at the guts and schems of numerous stompbox pedals the distinction is getting even slimmer.

 

fuzz == overdriven transistors

dist == shunted diodes

 

?

 

But then we've got knowledgeable and well-meaning guys like Craig Anderton using the term "fuzz" for anything that adds harmonic content to a guitar signal by various means.

 

 

Assuming that the 1960's Dallas Arbiter Fuzz Face is the definitive example of "fuzz", and everything else is an imitation or derivative... Does that mean a razored speaker cone is the definitive example of distortion?

 

[DC Ross]

IMO, from a very non-technical standpoint, in order from cleanest to dirtiest:

Clean -> Overdrive -> Distortion -> Fuzz

 

To me, fuzz is like a distorted distortion - try running a Rat into a Rat into another Rat, and you have enough fuzz to blind three mice

[Danzilla]

DC- I always put it the other way:

Clean -> Overdrive -> Fuzz -> Distortion

 

A Boss Blues Driver or a Fuzz Face make some of your sounds rough around the edges but can be considered "warm" ; my Tech 21 Comptortion makes no bones about it's assault on the tone.

 

Did I help or add more confusion?

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

Fuzz= the signature guitar riff in "A Question of Temperature".

 

Distortion= Clapton's guitar sound on John Mayal's Blues Breakers "Hideaway".

 

Bill

[Gruupi]

Well its all a matter of degree, but isn't it a level of distortion issue? I prefer a musical distortion, i.e. the even harmonics being emphasised verses a more saturated fuzz that has more odd harmonics. Of course there is a time and place for every sound, fuzz has its place if it makes the riff/song sound right. But for soloing/ and or improvising I have always tried to use as little distortion I could get away with while still getting some sustain.

[Billster]

Danzilla, I think distortion comes before fuzz in the continuum. Listen to things like early George Benson. His tone is primarily clean, but goes into a little bit of distortion and overdrive which is definitely NOT fuzzy.

 

As a matter of fact, distortion might even come before overdrive if you consider distortion to be a momentary thing and overdrive to be a more sustained thing.

 

Fuzz to me is a more affected sound, where overdrive is more naturalistic.

[fantasticsound]

First, technically, everything that isn't clean is distorted. These are subjective terms.

 

I agree with DC Ross and Danzilla about Clean -> Overdrive. After that it's less about the amount of gain-driven distortion and more about the quality of the timbre.

 

Either can be light or heavy.

 

The difference, to me, is the harmonic content.

 

Distortion, IMO, describes the smooth, heavily distorted sound. Fuzz, OTOH, has an erratic quality to the distorted sound. It ends up sounding "peaky", with many different peaks.

 

This may clarify or confuse the situation, but I "see" sounds as different pictures in my head.

 

Visually I imagine fuzz as a boiling surface of a liquid as the signal, with large, erratic bubbles rising to the surface and popping. This in contrast to my vision of distortion as a carbonated beverage, tiny bubbles more uniformly breaking the surface, and with less individual blasts. More of a single front than a bubbling caulderon.

 

You be the judge.. does that make sense to anyone else?

[Guitarzan]

that is a great way of putting it Neil.

[Gabriel E.]

I always thought that "fuzz" was "wooly" and "spitty" with a loose bottom end wheras "distortion" was smoother and more focused.

 

A Rat is a distortion pedal.

 

A Big Muff is a fuzz box.

[fantasticsound]

Gabriel, I believe you summed up my feelings in subjective terms I can appreciate.

 

Thanks, 'Zan. You realize, of course, by admitting you understand me you're at risk of being taken away by the "men in their clean white coats".

[Blue Strat]

Fuzz, Distortion, Crunch, Grit, etc. All different sides of the same dice.

 

A Fuzz usually has the treble frequencies rolled off.

 

A Distortion usually has scooped midrange.

 

Overdrive just boosts your signal.

 

These are my definitions.

[phaeton]

Fuzz, Distortion, Crunch, Grit, etc. All different sides of the same dice.

 

I realise that, but you're "tainted" just like me, if not moreso

[fantasticsound]

Originally posted by Blue Strat:

...A Fuzz usually has the treble frequencies rolled off.

 

I've heard fuzz with treble rolled off, but that's hardly a definition of the grand-daddy of fuzz, the Fuzz Face.

 

...A Distortion usually has scooped midrange.

 

LOL. That's funny. I was playing with an MXR Distortion+ long before there was a scooped mid sound.

 

These are my definitions.

Point made, point taken.

[phaeton]

The scooped-mid sound is cool, but to really pull it off you need a really good graphical-band active EQ, especially if you are layering guitars.

 

If you just dump the mid, crank the treble and bass, then you will end up with a kind of a hissy, ratty sound in the mix, especially with single-coils. There's a whole host of freqs that need to be boosted, esp. in the upper midrange. A few in the lower-midrange too.

 

FWIW, in the last "serious" band i was in, i had a singlecoil strat, some stompboxes, a home-made spliter and collector, and an EQ. The other guitarist had the tower of rack stuff and an Ibanez RG 550. I could dial in sounds that would just bury his rig. It pissed him off to no end.

 

--

 

Regarding distortion.... These days i'm learning the art of using subtle amounts of distortion. But there are lots of times where i will still mix n match several stages of distortion. I know lots of pseudoangst-ridden testonsterone-fueled kids have the gain on 11.5 all the time, and a lot of them are doing that to cover up sloppy playing.

 

Not me. I used to be murderously clean (before the tendonitis, atrophy and apathy). But there's a little bit of an art here too- I've crafted some distorted sounds, some HEAVILY distorted sounds that are very very smooth, heavy and solid sounding. Actually much more pleasant to listen to than some lesser-distorted metal sounds. And they're very tight, so they lend themselves quite well to layered/harmonized things. The sounds are mostly inspired by bowed instrument arrangements like cellos and/or violins. You can see where this is going, then...

 

Anyhow... While i'm starting to learn the value in backing off the distortion in some cases, I still see and feel the need to "overdistort" my guitar for some really evil-sounding stuff. Noise is the bane of that, of course, but i'm working on it . Three or so separate stages of gain and EQ in one pedal should have less total parts and cabling than the several pedals and amp front-end required to do it the old fashoined way.

[Blue Strat]

Originally posted by fantasticsound:

Originally posted by Blue Strat:

...A Fuzz usually has the treble frequencies rolled off.

 

I've heard fuzz with treble rolled off, but that's hardly a definition of the grand-daddy of fuzz, the Fuzz Face.

The Fuzz Face has a low input impedance and the treble is rolled off at the input. When the sine wave that is your guitar's signal gets boosted and clipped, harmonics are added. You can't have a square wave without adding harmonics to the fundamental. The more square the wave gets, the more harmonics. That's where the treble at the output is coming from.

[phaeton]

That's where the treble at the output is coming from.

 

So you're saying that fuzz tends to have more of the treble hacked off and replaced with harmonics, whereas wholesale distortion will alter the treble freqs less, leaving more original guitar signal content?

 

btw i accidentally posted a DIY question in BlueMood's thread so i brought it here:

 

Phaeton, the 4" junction box covers are round, and about 1/16" thick. They're made with a slot on one side, opposite a slotted hole, and they've got five knock-outs. There are some 6" PVC caps I saw at Home Depot, but they had a rounded top with sides about 3" tall or greater - too tall for a stomp box. But it might make a great enclosure for a theremin!

 

There are some blue plastic ones like that, w/o knockoffs. Those are what i used at first, but these metal tee caps look like they'll be more secure.

 

I know which 6" PVC caps you're talking about- glossy and really thick. Bleh. However, the gf says she wants a theremin, to sit around and make Star Trek noises with, so maybe i'll have to pick one up

[Blue Strat]

The covers I'm using are just stamped out sheet-metal.

 

So you're saying that fuzz tends to have more of the treble hacked off and replaced with harmonics, whereas wholesale distortion will alter the treble freqs less, leaving more original guitar signal content?

 

Yeah, that sounds about right. But remember, the distortion is turning the guitar signal into a square wave too, so you're adding harmonics to what's already there. I'd say that the difference between fuzz and distortion comes down to EQ.

[phaeton]

Pssst....

 

Hey Blue,

 

You have any interest in the Harmony Central Forums at all, or are you stayin' put?

 

[Guitarzan]

Originally posted by fantasticsound:

Gabriel, I believe you summed up my feelings in subjective terms I can appreciate.

 

Thanks, 'Zan. You realize, of course, by admitting you understand me you're at risk of being taken away by the "men in their clean white coats".

..can't talk now.....medication time

[Shoes]

It took this thread to remind me of why I pulled the guts out of my Big Muff some 25 years ago to use the box for a home project.

 

While there are times when it's specifically called for... I hate the sound of "fuzz" or things that cause a guitar to become undistinguishable.

 

all a matter of taste i guess

 

.. if I could get the right schematic for it I'd rebuild the thing.

[Blue Strat]

Originally posted by phaeton:

You have any interest in the Harmony Central Forums at all, or are you stayin' put?

I haven't checked out the HC forums yet. I'm kind of luke-warm on the idea. I'll keep posting here, at least until I decide if I want to check HC out, and then I'll probably still post over here too.

[Dr. Ellwood]

Fuzz is Keef's guitar tone on "Satisfaction" as in Can't Get No!!!

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

Originally posted by ellwood:

Fuzz is Keef's guitar tone on "Satisfaction" and in Can't Get No!!!

Fulltone 69

 

Bill

[fantasticsound]

Originally posted by guitarzan:

Originally posted by fantasticsound:

Gabriel, I believe you summed up my feelings in subjective terms I can appreciate.

 

Thanks, 'Zan. You realize, of course, by admitting you understand me you're at risk of being taken away by the "men in their clean white coats".

..can't talk now.....medication time

[BluesWithoutBlame]

just to add my two cents...

 

If you look at the waveforms that characterize each of them I think that:

 

Overdrive: raises the very low level signal from the guitar ( which is like millivolts) to a higher value. It is somewhat of a preamp that is overdriven, meaning pushed just slightly over its' limits so two things happen to the waveform, it increases the voltage level of the signal (BUT not equally across the frequency range...and that's why different OD pedals sound different) and SLIGHTLY clips the signal (squares it a little but) but just slightly because in the pedal they make it amplify past the "true reproduction of the signal" slightly.

 

Distortion: I have to admit, I am not sure how (if at all) this differs from "fuzz" except maybe at what point the electronics make the waveform a square wave...I think distortion swuares a at a higher point than "fuzz".

But that is only a diffence in at what point the signal is squared, but they work the same way.

A distortion/fuzz is not designed to ampilfy (though it CAN amplify the signal after it squares it) but more in making a square wave out of a sinusoidal wave. They also have characteristic sounds because of what is called the RC constant, which just means that it squares some frequencies more than others...but basically if a signal reaches the threshold, it will flatten the signal out.

 

 

I could be wrong, but this is my understanding of it.

[groove guru]

While I have no clue about the electronic design differences, I have always felt that distortion integrates with the guitar signal to make a complete dynamic tone and fuzz is a distorted overlayment on top of the tone.