surgevw Posted April 10, 2005 Share Posted April 10, 2005 Wow. Had a lesson today. We decided last week to learn a new song. I had always like "Take Five" done by Brubeck, et. al. The recording I have isn't one for guitar, but it loks like the sheet music I got makes the guitar a brass instrument (Alto sax?). None of this is what blew my mind. What did was just how dynamic, expressive, yet technical this all is. I am now to the point (16 months) where I can say that I can do hammer-ons and pull-offs, more or less on demand. But the technical "noodling" (which I took for granted when I listened to the album) is eye-opening. I am going to like learning this piece, I think. I also realized now why those suitcased sized archtops exist (although I bet I still am not comfortable with one). But I was downstairs in the music stor gazing at Gretsch guitars and being educated on Filtertron (?) pickups. A great excuse for more G.A.S. someday [the fiance would love me to get a Brian Setzer Gretsch. Citibank would too ;-)] Most of all I am blown away about how much more to this piece there is than "notes". So much expresion that is difficult to capture on the page. So much to learn, and only one lifetime... still a noob! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funk Jazz Posted April 10, 2005 Share Posted April 10, 2005 good for you, it's an equally frustrating and rewarding challenge. just don't become a snob once you "get" it, and don't expect too much of yourself. just tackle one little detail at a time, and always learn tunes, and learn tunes, and learn tunes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauldil Posted April 10, 2005 Share Posted April 10, 2005 Yeah, that is one great tune. Paul Desmond's sax solo is so understated and elegant that it's a great lesson in itself. It's a good song to learn because it's simple to play and is very recognizable. Good luck. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njrocker Posted April 10, 2005 Share Posted April 10, 2005 Congragulations, jazz can be an awesome thing to learn and play. I starting really getting into it about nine months ago myself. If you ever need some listening material, check out your local library's jazz section, if it has one. A must have is Miles Davis' Kind of Blue, which continues to sell a very large amount of copies every year. If you want your mind blown, pick up any of the copious Django Reinhart compilations. And, good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicalhair Posted April 10, 2005 Share Posted April 10, 2005 I read your post to "Seven of Mine" (what will I call her when she turns 8? I'm not looking forward to that day) because I've been telling her that once she gets past some rudimentary skills and knowledge that she'll understand and what is so cool about music. Dude, we all know that feeling and thanks for spelling it out so well. I never approached jazz from a feeling of confidence, and I focused on "chord melody" for a while both as a pursuit of knowledge and because I didn't have many jazzy situations to play in which is definately my own fault in a lot of ways (besides, I'm a roots-rock, classic-rock, acid rock "stax" funk guy jam-band at heart). About the Gretsch pickups: yeah man supposedly the "best" of their's are amazing. TV Jones is supposed to make the best "Gretsch" pickups now. His line of pickups is more than "just" Gretsch pickups so that he can market to a wider range of players and needs, but I think the ones that have the "tron" in the name start incorporate the Gretsch flavor. Like the "Powertrons" which I'm putting in my Carvin Fatboy are supposed to be like a PAF with the Gretsch sparkle on the top end, but enough output to allow for coil splitting and fun stuff like that where as the standard Gretsch pick up and his take on them don't lend themselves to coil splitting. Also the old DeArmond pickups are supposed to be amazing and perhaps even cooler than the old Gretsches. The newer DeArmonds pickups are very sweet and interesting sounding, but I've never fooled around with the old ones to compare. I "passed" on the Korean made DeArmond archtop mainly because of a combination of snobbery and solidarity with the rest of the US workers, although the US made pickups they put in them did sort of make it a tougher choice. Take 5 is a most excellent song, and the melody sits on guitar very nicely. check out some comedy I've done: http://louhasspoken.tumblr.com/ My Unitarian Jihad Name: Brother Broadsword of Enlightened Compassion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicalhair Posted April 10, 2005 Share Posted April 10, 2005 I showed Seven of Mine the "flick of the index finger" and the rasgueado (she ain't got it down yet) and she is in her room strumming away on an A minor and an E major howling away like a very goofy Flamenco singer. check out some comedy I've done: http://louhasspoken.tumblr.com/ My Unitarian Jihad Name: Brother Broadsword of Enlightened Compassion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc taz Posted April 10, 2005 Share Posted April 10, 2005 Yeah, jazz is fun to play around with. I'm mostly about the theory and chord structure right now, but I'm trying some tunes, too. Some of the ones I'm trying right now are things my dad has in some of his Herb Ellis albums. I hear lots of blues-based jazz from him, so that might be easy for anyone starting out. That's what I'll study more when I get my next ax. That, and more fingerstyle. I was just messing around on a Schecter Gryphon guitar yesterday... nice piece. I'd definitely use it with heavier strings than usual (perhaps .011-.052), so I could play some jazz on it. Those crazy rock punks made it so hard to hear what I was playing, but whatever. sevenstring.org profile my flickr page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted April 10, 2005 Share Posted April 10, 2005 Desmond was amazing... such great tone and phrasing. Learning sax solos is a EXCELLENT way for guitarists to learn about phrasing. Learning them by reading notation is great for the sight reading chops... learning them by listening to them and then transcribing them is a great way to build your ear and notation chops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitar55 Posted April 10, 2005 Share Posted April 10, 2005 You should check out Chet Atkins' version of Take 5 to see how it can be done on the guitar. I made a Band-In-The_box version in Em to play along with. It's lots of fun, but I haven't mastered the feel for soloing over 5/4 yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpig Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 I have just set about learning "Midnight at the Oasis". Oh God but the chords are gorgeous. There is something there that is just so evocative and romantic. Cheesy 70s maybe but I'm an old hippie and am going to attempt it on a bouzouki... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surgevw Posted April 11, 2005 Author Share Posted April 11, 2005 Well thanks everyone for the encouragement and commentary. Things I have learned since I posted this: Chet Atkins did a version I need to listen to that miles davis album I have never heard of "rasgueado" or the index finger flick I need to ger a Django Reinhardt album More about Gretchs and "tron" pickups Right now I have a thick maple/maple neck Strat with an 11 set. I like it, but it is too bright for this work. I guess that's what the neck pickup and tone knob is for. From SRV to Paul Desmond/Dave Brubeck, there has been an expansion in my world this year. Not in having listening to music, but having "heard" it. And maybe understanding it a little... BTW, what a great forum! Seth still a noob! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicalhair Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Hey man, the "flick of the finger" is just that you can make a fist and flick your index finger like you were flicking someones ear or playing "football" with folded up paper triangles "flicking" field goals over someone's thumbs as goal posts. This flick can be used as a downstroke strum, bringing it back to the fist just as fast is the up stroke. You can flick and bring home the finger really fast and it makes for a nice sounding strum. What ws said about Paul Desmond above is right on: check out Bossa Antigua for some amazingly sweet playing. The idea that "phrasing" can be learned from listening and stealing from horn players is that they have to breath between lines so the breath cycles are an integral part of their lines. This makes them play in "sentence" form and not run on sentence form like we sometimes tend to do. Stammering when nevous is no different that stammering when soloing when feeling put on the spot. They at least must take breaths on the horns. Exhaling as you play a phrase or an idea and stopping while you inhale is not a bad thing to try. Putting "breath marks" and actually following them on sheet music you work off of is also a really good idea. Some classical guitarists sometimes do that-- how is that for a non-commital statement. check out some comedy I've done: http://louhasspoken.tumblr.com/ My Unitarian Jihad Name: Brother Broadsword of Enlightened Compassion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicalhair Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Oh, and a strat will work just fine for what your doing. check out some comedy I've done: http://louhasspoken.tumblr.com/ My Unitarian Jihad Name: Brother Broadsword of Enlightened Compassion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Soloway Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 I love Paul Desmond. I have about 6 of his albums plus Brubeck's Time Out and I never get tired of hearing Desmonds tone. Some random info about Take Five. When Paul Desmond died, he left the publishing rights to Take Five to the American Red Cross. Since 1989, it has raised over $4million dollars for them. www.solowayguitars.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBBPaul Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Don't forget Joe Morello's nearly melodic drums. Our new and improved website Today's sample tune: Lonesome One Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Thorne Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 I'm a big fan of Jim Hall, who played with and was a fan of Paul Desmond. Nothing wrong with a Strat for jazz unless you don't like the tone. Herb Ellis is one who doesn't play with that godawful muddy "jazz tone"; Charlie Christian was another. In my dotage I like Gibson scale and fat necks (just kidding - I always did). I get a nice bright-yet-mellow tone on my Epi jazz box, but if I told you how I do it I'd have to kill you lol... Enjoy the jazz! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funk Jazz Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 i'd highly recommend the Django In Rome . it's a ridiculously good price and some excellent sound on the recordings. this was at the tail end of Django's career, and he reunites with Stephane Grapelli for some tracks. http://images.overstock.com/f/102/3117/8h/www.overstock.com/img/products/muze/music/514333.JPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robman2 Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Brubeck commented on that once in I believe that Jazz documentary series on PBS.. He said the drummer, had this lick going and they just fell into it. Brubeck also, is one of the more notable, didn't follow anyone into it guys. His parents were hammering him on classical but he decided to do his own interpetives, and never looked back. That he was one of a few white guys who established stature, is remarkable in a genre generally owed to black players and composers for it's general foundation and generational trends. Label on the reverb, inside 1973 Ampeg G-212: "Folded Line Reverberation Unit" Manufactured by beautiful girls in Milton WIS. under controlled atmosphere conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBBPaul Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 I had the opportunity many years ago to sit in with Dan Brubeck, Dave's son. He is an awesome drummer as well. Our new and improved website Today's sample tune: Lonesome One Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitar55 Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Originally posted by blackpig: I have just set about learning "Midnight at the Oasis". Oh God but the chords are gorgeous. There is something there that is just so evocative and romantic. Cheesy 70s maybe but I'm an old hippie and am going to attempt it on a bouzouki... One of my favorite guitar solos by Amos Garrett. Trivia: Amos was the one who coined the term "The Humbler" when bootleg copies of Danny Gatton's performance with Robert Gordon were making the rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surgevw Posted April 19, 2005 Author Share Posted April 19, 2005 So I have been practicing Take Fave for a week or so. Can't believe I haven't mastered it yet Seriously, I underestimated the task but I am learning lots of cool stuff. There is some seriously fast yet subtle stuff going on. No brute force, but deceptively difficult finesse. As an offshoot, learned about Ebm9 as a launch point for funk. Pretty cool tangent for this weeks guitar lesson! Seth still a noob! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihategarybettman Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by chad: Herb Ellis is one who doesn't play with that godawful muddy "jazz tone"; -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- chad, thanks for bringing that up. That choked-off, ball-less tone that so many jazzers strive for (along with an annoying tendency to show off every scale they ever learned in every song they play) is what puts me off about 90 percent of the jazz guitarists out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Maldonado Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 Yo Guitar55 and blackpig, very cool song that "Midnight @ the Oasis" A friend of mine knew that Ry cooder was on that particular M. Muldaur album and for years thought Ry was doing this guitar solo. I had to correct him that it is indeed Amos Garrett. He refused to believe me. Some people like to hold onto their preconcieved beliefs in spite of the facts. Does anybody know if their is a solo tab for this solo somewhere? I'm trying to figure out the chords that he rakes over. Good Luck, surgevw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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