today's music ain't got the same soul...

[Adamixoye]

Look, not to complain, but this is a very tired topic. Let's just state some of the true clichés that apply to this topic:

 

Music is always changing

Music goes through phases

You just have to look harder for the right stuff

You like one thing, I like another

 

By the way, about "meaning" vs. "for the people", these are not mutually exclusive things. Even as far back as Beethoven, songwriters and composers have been writing music with an eye towards the people. That doesn't mean his music didn't have "meaning" (if you define meaning as expressing his emotions and artistic abilities).

[Funk Jazz]

Originally posted by webe123:

I don't need to change at all! I KNOW good music when I hear it, but it AIN'T on the radio any more! There is not much you can do about it, but that does not make it right! And as far as me having to go to every club to just find a decent band, that would take WAY too long and WHY would I want to waste my time doing that??? And YES music DOES need a change! It needs to have these boy groups thrown out and put in some real groups! That is the point!

who's talking about boy groups? there have always been boy bands, and teen pop creations. always. ever head of a little record label called motown?

 

why does new music have to be served to you on a dish (radio)? isn't the journey as important as the destination? there is options, all is not lost...

 

look man, classic rock radio is just as lame as new formats. if you don't like modern radio, don't listen. tune in on the 'net to some other stuff.

 

you know that internet thingy? it's pretty good too... but all that typing, and those pop-ups, and google searches that go nowhere... that would take way too long and why would you waste your time doing that?

 

that's so classic. perfect lazy modern americanism.

 

i have a feeling that you would have missed the chance to see great music in an any era.

 

sorry for the grumpy sandwich, but your asking for something that ain't gonna happen. radio will never devolve out of corporate ownership.

[Funk Jazz]

Originally posted by ihategarybettman:

funkjazz, you're right, there are good artists out there (I have CDs from Steve Earle, Queens of the Stone Age, and Radiohead), but it seems like it was easier to find the quality stuff in the "good old days." Albums were cheaper so it was easier (economically) to take a chance on buying a record you weren't familiar with, local radio played a wider variety of music and artists, MTV in its early days actually played music videos, and you didn't have to go into hock to pay for concert tickets. Also, I miss Musician magazine, which had a great section on new artists to look for.

you got that right about concert tickets.

 

i still would argue that you can sample just about any record out there on amazon.com. there was no way to do that 20 years ago, it was all word of mouth/radio.

 

internet radio is great too, if you have the tools. there is a station for every interest.

 

.02

 

many, many options.

 

i think we have it better than ever. though the saturation can be frustrating.

 

you can carry 10,000 songs anywhere you go, in a little mp3 player in your pocket. that's just beyond star trek. imagine trying to explain that to someone in the 50's.

[webe123]

Originally posted by funkjazz:

Originally posted by webe123:

I don't need to change at all! I KNOW good music when I hear it, but it AIN'T on the radio any more! There is not much you can do about it, but that does not make it right! And as far as me having to go to every club to just find a decent band, that would take WAY too long and WHY would I want to waste my time doing that??? And YES music DOES need a change! It needs to have these boy groups thrown out and put in some real groups! That is the point!

who's talking about boy groups? there have always been boy bands, and teen pop creations. always. ever head of a little record label called motown?

 

why does new music have to be served to you on a dish (radio)? isn't the journey as important as the destination? there is options, all is not lost...

 

look man, classic rock radio is just as lame as new formats. if you don't like modern radio, don't listen. tune in on the 'net to some other stuff.

 

you know that internet thingy? it's pretty good too... but all that typing, and those pop-ups, and google searches that go nowhere... that would take way too long and why would you waste your time doing that?

 

that's so classic. perfect lazy modern americanism.

 

i have a feeling that you would have missed the chance to see great music in an any era.

 

sorry for the grumpy sandwich, but your asking for something that ain't gonna happen. radio will never devolve out of corporate ownership.

Sorry dude, but your opinion of what music is doesn't cut it for me! And YES I LIKED MOTOWN! How did THEY get in this conversation?? I was the one saying I liked those groups (from the 70s) , REMEMBER?? You sound like someone who if everyone does not agree with what you say, they get flamed...well too bad! And by the way, you don't know me from diddly so why don't you get down off your high horse and LEARN!?? I can't stand it when peopole like you have to put other people down for what they state they believe that is different from your beliefs! You type like you seem know everything about everything, so there really isn't much I can tell a person like you is there? So I don't want to go to a hundred bars and go through a hundred groups to find ONE good band? SO WHAT? Who the hell are YOU to tell me otherwise!? So WHAT if I don't want to listen to hours of endless RAP and pop music which makes me sick to my stomach! I like what I like period and I don't give a DAMN about what YOUR opinion is of my tastes! And if you think I or other americans are lazy then you don't know your head from a hole in the ground! You don't know me and I don't know you, so how can you say that about americans you egotistical jerk?? How do I know you are not some lazy idiot yourself!? Sorry for the grumpy sandwich but that is just the way it is!!

[Funk Jazz]

Originally posted by webe123:

Sorry dude, but your opinion of what music is doesn't cut it for me! And YES I LIKED MOTOWN! How did THEY get in this conversation?? I was the one saying I liked those groups (from the 70s) , REMEMBER??

 

how would you know what i think music is? c'mon. motown put out boy bands and created pop stars, and many hipsters of the day hated it. . that's the point. you are putting down something from this generation that you gladly accept from your own. i love motown.

 

You sound like someone who if everyone does not agree with what you say, they get flamed...well too bad! And by the way, you don't know me from diddly so why don't you get down off your high horse and LEARN!?? I can't stand it when peopole like you have to put other people down for what they state they believe that is different from your beliefs! You type like you seem know everything about everything, so there really isn't much I can tell a person like you is there?

 

i do know what you posted, and it sounded lazy. i don't know anything else about you. if you look back on the thread, you jumped on my opinion first, putting me down for suggesting the music i like. so who's flaming who? i never said i didn't like classic rock, or motown, or anything.

 

So I don't want to go to a hundred bars and go through a hundred groups to find ONE good band? SO WHAT? Who the hell are YOU to tell me otherwise!?

 

man, you are incredibly negative. stay home then, it was just a suggestion. i would go see your band, and i would support your effort, and i would appreciate the heart it takes for you to get up in front of people and play music.

 

So WHAT if I don't want to listen to hours of endless RAP and pop music which makes me sick to my stomach! I like what I like period and I don't give a DAMN about what YOUR opinion is of my tastes!

 

i made no mention of taste, i made no assertion that rap or pop is better than anything from the 70's. this is all you.

 

And if you think I or other americans are lazy then you don't know your head from a hole in the ground! You don't know me and I don't know you, so how can you say that about americans you egotistical jerk?? How do I know you are not some lazy idiot yourself!? Sorry for the grumpy sandwich but that is just the way it is!!

back at ya, pal. i am a lazy american too. i complain when my cable is out, when my internet connection is slow, etc. i have been all over the world and have seen how others live. we are lazy. sorry you can't take a little ribbing.

 

why did you edit out the "fuck you" and "shove it up your ass" part? that was my favorite

 

who's flaming who? take it easy. i'll buy you a beer someday. neither of us are such bad guys, just rubbing each other the wrong way.

[coyote]

Maybe this is the key, right here. Back in the 60s & 70s (and even into the 80s a bit), FM radio had an amazing variety of music. "Classic Rock" included obscure King Crimson along with hits by the Police and VH, as well as 60s soul & pop and 70s prog and new wave. You didn't have to go further than your radio to hear an incredible variety of music.

 

Nowadays, every FM station is programmed to play whatever's selling the most - which is in turn decided by the amount of airplay the music gets. Where there used to be a steady diet of variety, now there's a steady diet of sameness. So now you must seek the music instead of it coming to you.

 

Ahhh, the "good old days..."

 

Originally posted by funkjazz:

anyone that says there isn't music out there today, just plain isn't looking.

[Funk Jazz]

how about this:

 

"just plain isn't used to looking?"

 

[adam b_dup1]

"Forget the lyrics, forget the message....Just play" - Cream

 

that, to me is what makes music have feeling, just having fun

[whitefang]

I'm not gonna mention any one artist or band specifically, because that might start another needless fight.

 

All I'll say is, if you look and listen hard enough, you'll find something "new", or a new spin on something old, to get your feet and spirit moving. Just like in "the day". Eventually, the plastic, commercial crap wears everyone out, and the good stuff can start finding it's way back to decent airplay. I've heard more good new stuff than I thought I would, and the numbers are growing.

 

Just be a bit more patient...

 

Whitefang

[rockinredneck69]

This thread is really a good read on the history of what music means if read closely...just saying that each generation sees thier tastes a bit differant. I don't think that is true really, but in the whole "circle of life" way it is, I suppose. I see the connection with todays "boy bands" with some of the motown stuff and before that even. Does anybody else see the connection with todays "nu-metal" as being a modern day version of what we now call classic rock? Korn, Disturbed, Pantera, Sloth or *name your favorite metal band of TODAY here* are similar to bands such as Foghat, Sabbath, Kiss, Nugent and even AC/DC in the sense that those bands were not top 40 but had a sort of underground following. They were on the cutting edge of what hard rock were and are. The whole argument of genres in todays music scene seems nothing short of pathetic to me for the reason that it has been more and more mixed since at least the late sixties, the Beatles did more than anyone to turn the music world on its head in that regard IMO, where's the love people? i.e., where is the music appreciation? If you don't like it then turn it off or change the station, disc...whatever. Do not let the radio or label presidents tell you what is cool or popular, rather, listen and feel what you like! If it happens to be on the radio constanly and you feel it then cool but don't buy into the notion that you have to listen and enjoy any particular genre because its what you are supposed to do. On the flip side of that coin, its ok if others enjoy what they do. I'm kinda ranting here, and it feels oh so good, but it seems some take it way to personal if others disagree with musical tastes and that is sad. Music in any form is however you let yourself recieve it and that is as personal as religion to me.

[coyote]

OK, rather than be a "bitter old guy" who just bashes all the new stuff, let me delineate what I think is good today and what's not good (all IMO of course). First, the good stuff:

 

New soul is pretty good. Even though most of it comes from sequencers, you can still envision a band playing it (as Alicia Keys does) live. Much of it has cool harmonic/rhythmic structure and good singing.

 

There's some new rock that kicks and/or is a bit innovative. It took me awhile to get into Korn, for example, but now I see where they're coming from. The guy has an original voice and the band works.

 

Some rap is cool, mostly the humorous stuff. And some borders on soul, and shares the highs of it. And the videos feature droves of almost-naked hot women shakin' their bootays - this is not a bad thing!

 

Now, the bad (in corresponding order to the good):

 

Diva syndrome. So many singers insist on putting their 'stamp' on songs, to the point that they just stomp all over the song, grab it by the neck and choke it, and never let the song come up for air. Mariah & Whitney ruined an entire generation of singers.

 

Most of the 'nu-metal', grunge, and rock that comes out now is garbage. Tune down to Db, add some CookieMonster shouting, thrash around the stage.... blechhh. Or let's do another PearlJam copy band like Creed; PJ were pretty good but might as well have come out in 1972 and their clones are boring. And most of the rock-rap crossover stuff just makes me reach for the station-change buttons.

 

As for rap-hiphop, well.... hearing some dudes talking at me over a monotonous beat just gets old fast. Even with the hot women in the videos, after a few moments I'm changing the station. Where's the compelling musical rap, like Snap's "I Got The Power"?

 

To sum up, I know there's good new music to be found out in the world. Unlike a couple decades ago, however, it's now difficult to find good new music in the popular culture. But in a culture that is obsessed with 'Survivor', I guess that's no surprise.

[Jazz Guitar]

Originally posted by coyote:

 

New soul is pretty good. Even though most of it comes from sequencers, you can still envision a band playing it (as Alicia Keys does) live. Much of it has cool harmonic/rhythmic structure and good singing.

"New Soul"???? It doesn't sound anything like R&B. To me it all sounds like moanin' bitches in heat. Yep, the Mariah Carey banality of the early 90s has become a useless genre of the the 2000s.

 

I won't even comment on Korn.

[rockinredneck69]

Thats what I'm talking about...its not a matter of what Survivor, Whitney Houston or Mariah Carey "did to music", or even how they influenced it. Its how YOU percieve it. I don't give a flyin' fuck about KoRn...but it seems somehow they influenced the metal scene of today, to me that is sooooo sad. But, no matter, I don't have to like them and whether I like it or not, it will reverberate down to what the next generation enjoys (just don't tell them that KoRn was a catalyst as by then...well, KoRn will be seen the way todays kids see Survivor).

[TieDyedDevil]

My formative years were spent listening to pop and psychedelic music of the mid-60s through mid-70s. My first two concert-going experiences (1969) were Led Zeppelin and Jefferson Airplane.

 

Then disco came along in the mid-70s, followed by the casio-pop and glam-rock of the 80s. There was at least a decade there where I didn't turn on the radio for more than a thirty-second run through the local stations to find that they were *still* playing crap.

 

Sometime in the early 90s, the likes of Tool, AIC and Soundgarden caught my ear. Five years later it all degenerated to lowest-common-denominator derivative crap again... The radio's been off for about 9 years, and will probably never be on again. I find all my new music on the internet, where I (a) have a lot more choice and (b) don't have to suffer through commercials.

 

As to whether new music does or doesn't have soul, I'd say that's more a question of the listener's response. During what I (and a lot of folks my age) think of as the "golden age" of rock, about 90% of what was on the radio was - you guessed it - crap. Disco, I'll just never get... it's an attitude thing that I can't buy into, even as a joke. Turns out there was a lot of good music in the "underground" (i.e. not much airplay) during the 80s - my wife has been doing "remedial work" to teach me about it.

 

There are still musicians out there today who are making great music. They're just not on the radio. If you're lucky enough to have a vital original music scene (as we are in Portland, OR) you'll hear lots of good stuff in the local bars and clubs.

 

The radio and the major labels are increasingly irrelevant unless you're looking for more of what sold the most last year and the year before and the year before that...

[TieDyedDevil]

Originally posted by coyote:

Maybe this is the key, right here. Back in the 60s & 70s (and even into the 80s a bit), FM radio had an amazing variety of music. ...

 

Nowadays, every FM station is programmed to play whatever's selling the most - which is in turn decided by the amount of airplay the music gets. ...

Hard to believe, but there was a time when the on-air personalities not only kept their mouths shut except for station ID and an occasional relevant comment about the music, but also got to choose their own playlists - often from their personal collections.