I need a real guitar setup for recording (not digital)

[Dylan]

About 8 months ago I bought a Line6 Flextone II Plus Combo in hopes that it would be a good amp with recording features. From what I could tell, it seemed to be essentially a Pod Pro with a power amp and speaker. At first I was really happy with the amp, as it had a wide arsenal of tones and was easy to dial in what I was looking for. I later added the Floorboard controller and an extra 1x12 cab for a bit more umph and better control. Ive gigged a ton with the amp and its been 100% reliable, but there are a few things that Im not totally sold with. First, the amp tends to have way too much low end. So much that I usually have to roll off most of the low EQ. This happens with all of my guitars, but especially with my humbucker-equipped models (SG, LP). My second gripe is that the XLR recording outputs pretty much sound like ass when I go line into to my audio interface (Echo Mona). The D.I. seems OK when used live fed into a P.A. and set to the Live setting, however. But for recording, the outputs seem much too noisy and the sound is thin. Ive tried different cables including Monster to see if it helped but it didnt. Another gripe is that its pretty much impossible to get a true clean sound out of the amp. Not to mention the total lack of dynamics with clean sounds.

 

Not having much money (especially enough for a new amp) I decided to give a Johnson J-Station a try based on the glowing reviews on Harmony Central since Musicians Friend is blowing them out at only $100. Like the Line6, my initial impressions were great. The sounds seemed good when just playing by myself, especially when used with reverb and another effect. But like the Line6, this unit has way too much low end by default on all of the presets. But unlike my Flextone when I roll back the Low EQ it affects the mid-range severely. I tried recording with the J-Station over the weekend on a project is essentially finished sans guitar. As soon as I cut off the effects and reverb from the J-Station all of the life went away from the sound. Its essentially flat as hell. Im starting to give up on digital when it comes to getting guitar sounds. Im sure that there are better and newer sounds available, but I doubt its worth it. In the short time that Ive had my amp Ive watched it depreciate more than any other piece of gear that Ive owned.

 

Im tempted to e-bay all of it and get some type of tube amp setup. Ive already owned several tube amps including a Fender Hotrod Deluxe, Fender Twin, Reverend Hellhound Half-stack, and others that I wasnt ever completely satisfied with. Im not gigging much at the moment, so I could probably get away with an amp thats geared more for recording than live use. One problem is that I dont have a decent room for micing my amp, which is why going direct has always appealed to me so much. Im just not convinced that any direct tools exist that can faithfully represent the dynamics and style of my playing, especially when it comes to clean sounds. I probably wont get more than $500 for all of my Line6 stuff, plus the $100 that Ill get when I return the J-Station. So $600 is probably going to be my initial budget, which I know isnt much but its all I have to work with. The Carmen Ghia and Univalve come to mind as heads that I could probably get within this price range used plus the cost of a cab. Any other recommendations?

[Guitarzan]

for low cash , have you checked out the traynor ycv80, 40 or 20 watt models?

[robmix]

I'd say you're headed down the right path - nothing can replace a great amp, and I own all the modeling boxes as well. They're useful once in a while but I usually only use them for quick demo guitars while writing or if I'm stacking guitars with more than 6 tracks. Without knowing the style of music you play it's hard to really know what amp will be best for you.

 

Rob

[Dylan]

I have considered the Traynor's but I would first need to find a local dealer that carries them. I generally play classic rock, blues, some hard rock like GN'R. I don't uber-distortion.

[Guitarzan]

sounds like the traynors fit your needs, there are some models that have a vintage 30 celestion. that is what i would seek.

[michael saulnier]

I think you're on the right track with a UniValve or a Carmen Ghia...

 

But some other possibilities...

 

Pro Junior's are cool "little" amps that have been known to get great sounds for recordings. ($300?)

 

Besides the UniValve, THD makes a BiValve, (two powertubes), and the just released "Flexi"... The clips of the Flexi I've heard NAIL that Marshall Plexi sound, but have a built-in attenuator like a UniValve. ($2,300)

 

James Peters makes a single-ended Class A "little" recording amp that many people like. It doesn't have an attenuator, but many people claim it gets great overdrive tone at low levels.

 

Mesa makes a "recording preamp" that's pretty nice. It provides a way to get a large set of Mesa sounds... if you like that sort of thing. ($1,000)

 

I've personally found my UniValve and a nice selection of tubes to give me LOTS of usable sounds, if you get one, plan on picking up a tube selection based on your tastes. You can find UniValves used on e-bay fairly regularly for around ($600), but keep in mind you need at least one cab to run it through... unless you go for the Palmer speaker emulator that James-Italy recently reviewed.

 

Hope this helps... good luck!

 

guitplayer

[Beermouse]

Originally posted by Guitarzan:

for low cash , have you checked out the traynor ycv80, 40 or 20 watt models?

Damnit Guit, it's my job to plug the Traynors like mad!

 

I'll second what Guitarzan said; the Traynor YCV series are excellent amplifiers (especially the YCV20WR and YCV40WR, which come with Celestion Green Backs and Vintage 30s, respectively). I have a YCV80 and I love it to pieces. It's a little loud though (don't really need that much power for anything but shows), so I'm thinking of getting a YCV20WR for practising.

[Grimmer]

I know this sounds a little wierd, but you may want to check out some of the higher wattage Tech 21's. They aren't tube, but I know from experience that they are absolutely fantastic for recording. They can cover a wide range of sounds, and most of the trademark series has direct outs, if that's what your into. If I were to get a solid state, these are the amps I would definately use. Seriously though, give them a try, they have a really good sound for a decent price.

[henryrobinett]

No one's ever tried the Emery Sound low watt tube amps? Man they're the bomb! They remind me of my Seymour Duncan Convertible, in concept and sound. But defintely a recording amp. Check it out.

 

http://emerysound.com/

[PBBPaul]

Personally, I'd look around for an old, early - mid 60's off-brand tube amp like Supro, Silvertone, Epiphone or even Gibson. They might be kinda ugly, but many of these amps will sound at least as good as the Fenders, Vox', and Ampegs of the same era but will cost a lot less. For instance, look here and here or perhaps here . There some values left out there if you look for them. Good luck!

 

My 2 cents.

[Bob Keelan]

I just picked up a Vox Pathfinder 15R a couple of weeks ago for $100 and I have been very pleased with it so far. It's 15 watts so you can nice some nice tone at low volumes and it sounds huge when you put a sm57 up to it.

 

http://www.sweetwater.com/images/products/Vox/V9168R.jpg

[gtrmac]

I had similar feelings about the POD and I sold mine. I got an H&K Tubeman preamp instead. Although I can't say it has the greatest high gain sounds it has a great Fender-ish clean channel. But the other channels are definately use-able. I put a Tube Screamer or a Treble Booster in front of it sometimes and I get other amp type sounds this way.

 

The important thing for me is that it feels like a real amp when I play through it.

[Dylan]

Originally posted by Grimmer:

I know this sounds a little wierd, but you may want to check out some of the higher wattage Tech 21's.

I used to have a Tech 21 Trademark 60 and it was pretty nice. The only problem was the it was prone to ground loops and I was never able to figure out why. Also, I felt that it's distortion sounds were a bit mucky if you were using anything but a mild overdrive. Otherwise, it did the SRV and Hendrix sounds very well and was reliable. The TM 120 looks even better, but I don't think it's probably worth the $750 new price.

[Dylan]

Originally posted by PBBPaul:

Personally, I'd look around for an old, early - mid 60's off-brand tube amp like Supro, Silvertone, Epiphone or even Gibson.

Thanks for the info and links. My only concern would be that those amps would be too powerful. The last thing I wan't is another Twin. Talk about a beast of an amp and a back-breaker. I'll try to find a 15 watter that's similiar.

[Dylan]

Originally posted by Bob Keelan:

I just picked up a Vox Pathfinder 15R a couple of weeks ago for $100 and I have been very pleased with it so far. It's 15 watts so you can nice some nice tone at low volumes and it sounds huge when you put a sm57 up to it.

 

http://www.sweetwater.com/images/products/Vox/V9168R.jpg

That looks nice. Are you recording using the D.I. output mainly, or do you also mic it as well? Is this amp primarily a clean sounding amp or can it get dirty as well?

[Dylan]

Originally posted by gtrmac:

I had similar feelings about the POD and I sold mine. I got an H&K Tubeman preamp instead.

Thanks, I'll have to give this unit a look. H&K makes some very nice gear and I'm sure that this is no exception.

[RangerJay]

Give this a try.

 

http://www.musicyo.com/product_specs.asp?pf_id=300

 

Sounds great on tape.

[Dennyf]

Originally posted by Dylan PDX:

I have considered the Traynor's but I would first need to find a local dealer that carries them. I generally play classic rock, blues, some hard rock like GN'R. I don't uber-distortion.

While I usually preach the Gospel according to Tech 21 (and by the way, the little Trademark 10 is a great little recording amp), if you're really just looking for a recording rig, and you don't have money falling out of your, uh, pockets, you might try to find an old Crate VC3112.

 

These are actually a really sweet sounding tube amp (clean channel, anyway--I think they tried too hard on the distortion channel) that you can probably pick up pretty cheap if you find one. The downside is that they are NOT terribly reliable, and so would be better off sitting in a studio than going out to gig. The issue is not one of bad circuit design, but rather one of poor choice in pcb construction.

 

But while they're working, they sound great! Nice and chimey, with a great natural breakup when turned up, and they work well with tube screamers. I had one on the road for two years, and really liked it up until that last little bit when it started giving me intermittent difficulty.

But it bounced around in a road case in the back of a box truck, and I think that aggrivated it's difficulty (had to keep resoldering the power tube sockets, which were mounted directly on the pcb--not a great scheme).

 

Anyhoo, for what you're playing, and what you want, give it a shot if you get the chance. Your imperitives are a little different from a "road dog's," and it might well prove reliable in "stationary" mode.

[Blue Strat]

Originally posted by Dylan PDX:

Originally posted by PBBPaul:

Personally, I'd look around for an old, early - mid 60's off-brand tube amp like Supro, Silvertone, Epiphone or even Gibson.

Thanks for the info and links. My only concern would be that those amps would be too powerful. The last thing I wan't is another Twin. Talk about a beast of an amp and a back-breaker. I'll try to find a 15 watter that's similiar.

Look for a Silvertone 1482 or 1481. Or Gibson GA-8T Discoverer or Gibsonette. Or any 5 to 15 watt off brand tube amp from the 60's. You can overdrive the crap out of these things and get some very good tones out of them at semi-low volumes. There are some tube amp bargains out there, but you have to search. One of my personal favorites is the Silvertone 1482. It's cheap (aobut $150 in great shape) and it's got the tone of a Fender 5E3 Deluxe (tweed, think "Cinammon Girl" by Neil Young) as well as a killer tremolo circuit.

 

An Ampeg Jet is even better, IMO, but a bit more pricey (about $350).

[Björn Fröberg]

One problem is that I don't have a decent room for micing my amp, which is why going direct has always appealed to me so much.

From my experiences, I can't say I've heard any DI'd guitar that sounds as good as a miked amp. Of course, it's a bit tricky to get the sound you wan't when miking, but you usually get them with trying different mic-positions and play with the knobs on the amp, testrecord and listening with your monitors. The sound never sounds like it does in the room, so you'll just have to listen to the recorded material and maybe EQ it.

 

You say you don't have a decent room for recording. What is the problem(s)? Most of the problems you can solve by trying out different positioning of the amp in the room, until you find the sweet spot. If the problem is noise, like the rumble of cars passing by or arguing neighbours, then the only way to fix it is to move. But that's probably out of the question.