revolead Posted October 19, 2003 Share Posted October 19, 2003 In sound and music class my teacher calls the minor 3rd of a Cmajor scale E and G. Is this correct? (The teacher is kind of a moron.) I want to say that C to Eb would be the minor 3rd, but I suppose that is for Cminor. I also considered the fact that A is the relative minor of Cmajor. Help anyone? Shut up and play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beermouse Posted October 19, 2003 Share Posted October 19, 2003 A minor third is a minor third, regardless of the key. It's just a measure of space, really. C natural to Eb will always be a minor third. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim P. Dyndale Posted October 19, 2003 Share Posted October 19, 2003 Right... You can't say THE minor 3rd in a C-major scale is E to G, because D to F and A to C are also minor 3rds. You could say that the minor 3rd in a C-major CHORD is E to G though. -Joachim Dyndale -------------------- Einstein: The difference between genius and stupidity is: Genius has limits My Blog... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henryrobinett Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 Yeah that's right. The distance from E to G is the distance of a minor third. The distance from C to Eb is also a minor third. But the distance of C to E is a MAJOR third. All the best, Henry Robinett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revolead Posted October 20, 2003 Author Share Posted October 20, 2003 Originally posted by Joachim P. Dyndale: Right... You can't say THE minor 3rd in a C-major scale is E to G, because D to F and A to C are also minor 3rds. You could say that the minor 3rd in a C-major CHORD is E to G though.Hmm...maybe that's what he meant. The whole purpose was to demostrate the difference in frequency is a ratio (about 5/4 for a major third; 6/5 for a minor third, in just intonation, different for equal tempered). So basically my teacher should stick to liquid crystal research and cram the music theory up his a$$?! Shut up and play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim P. Dyndale Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 That might be a bit too harsh. After all, all he got wrong was he said THE instead of A... I don't know his EXACT wording, so I really can't make any judgements here. -Joachim Dyndale -------------------- Einstein: The difference between genius and stupidity is: Genius has limits My Blog... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcohol Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 If this is a college course, go along with your teacher, he's giving you a mark. In a C major scale D-F, E-G, A-C, B-D are minor thirds. C to Eb is a minor third in a C minor scale. In a C major chord E to G is a minor third. "The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in a period of moral crisis maintain their neutrality." [Dante Alighieri] (1265-1321) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim P. Dyndale Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 I would be picky and say that B-D is not in the C-major scale -Joachim Dyndale -------------------- Einstein: The difference between genius and stupidity is: Genius has limits My Blog... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henryrobinett Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 Hmm. How could you say B-D is not in the C major scale? All the best, Henry Robinett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_dup3 Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 This is one of the confusing things about traditional terms in music analysis. Frequently people will use a term in one sense but the person hearing the term will take it in another connotation. The terms diminished & augmented are slightly more precise when discussing intervallic relations but many also use the term minor when discussing 3rds even, as here, when it might not apply to the span between the tonic & scalar 3rd. This was really confusing to me when trying to learn at early stages; different speakers/writers would use the same terms in different ways, sometimes consistently, sometimes not. It's even worse when slipping between simple intervals & harmonic/chordal relationships [where all the same terms (major, minor, diminished, augmented) really carry their greatest connotations]. This is why I regularly suggest that the terms above be reserved for chords & that the appellations sharped or flatted be used for intervals. A "flatted 3rd" is a flatted 3rd wherever in the octave it lies & there's no mistaking that for a minor key harmony. Similarly, when the term "diminished" is reserved for a chord type & "flatted 3rd" or "flatted 5th" is used for intervals, there's no confusing the two meanings. Some, unfamiliar with this style may still wonder what you mean but they're more likely to ask, if that's the case, than to presume that they know which sense you're using the term "minor", etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henryrobinett Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 d - I know what you mean. It can get confusing. But since that's how those chords actually got their name it kind of makes sense. I don't have a problem with it generally. I'll specify and say this is a diminshed interval. Or if we're talking about intervals saying, "Oh no. It's diminished." But in the real world I'd just more than likely say it's a flatted 3rd or flat 5 or 6 or 3rd or flat 4th. Diminished is a very wierd interval. All the best, Henry Robinett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_dup3 Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 Of course it's traditional in theory analyses to use the terms augmented, etc., for the harmonic constructs not just for the intervals but as we realize, it's confusing---& not just for neophytes. I think the same problem exists for the use of chord nomenclature. Once it took me a half-hour (which I'll never get...etc. ) to find that a reference to a "chord of the minor 7th" was intended to name a chord with a major 3rd but a "minor", that is, flatted, 7th. Hence my current insistence on the use of #& b rather than the conventional terms. As Revoload points out, it's too easy to misconstrue the connotation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revolead Posted October 20, 2003 Author Share Posted October 20, 2003 Originally posted by Joachim P. Dyndale: That might be a bit too harsh. After all, all he got wrong was he said THE instead of A... I don't know his EXACT wording, so I really can't make any judgements here.Sorry. I really don't like the professor. Anyway, thanks for the help guys. Now I have to go study my mass media for the midterm. FUN!!! Shut up and play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim P. Dyndale Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 Actually sounds like you study some pretty interesting subjects! You could be a lot worse off... I studied music in high-school and a couple of years in college. I can't imagine myself studying something else at that time. Now I'm actually interested in studying math, physics, computer science, graphic desgin, web design etc... All kinds of things. I'll have to finish that Bachelor in music first though. -Joachim Dyndale -------------------- Einstein: The difference between genius and stupidity is: Genius has limits My Blog... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revolead Posted October 21, 2003 Author Share Posted October 21, 2003 I have some interesting classes. I would be a little more excited about this Sound and Music 1240 class if the professor wasn't such a moron. I'm studying to be a journalist, so I need a large variety of classes. Shut up and play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim P. Dyndale Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 Journalist, huh. Cool -Joachim Dyndale -------------------- Einstein: The difference between genius and stupidity is: Genius has limits My Blog... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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