Sunshy Posted April 12, 2003 Share Posted April 12, 2003 Hey y'all. I'm want to run a speaker cable from my amps into a smaller speaker that I will place in the living room so I can dial in the guitar sound I want in my bedroom studio (disconnect the combo speakers), but have an external speaker miced in the living room. I know it's not a good idea to run an amp without a speaker cab. So what are the pitfalls? I have a Musicman tube amp (Fender Twin Copy) and a Roland JC-77. What would be a good speaker to get? What size? Thanks! "Pray for the dead . . . but fight like hell for the living." Mother Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted April 12, 2003 Share Posted April 12, 2003 O.K., what does this amp use for speakers? Is it a 2x12" compliment, as in a Fender Twin, which you compare the Music-Man to? How about the Roland? 1x12", 2x12" ? What are the respective impedances? Does either amp have an impedance-selector switch? Correct impedance is the most important thing here. Do you already like the way these amps' speakers sound, in their open-back cabinets? Why not put each amp-chassis in their own "head"-style cabinets- allow for ventilation -and run a long, heavy-gauge (and safely routed) speaker-cable to each respective cab? Find a way to block-off the opening where the chassis was in each cab that will not rattle; perhaps some "egg-crate"-style sound foam with cardboard and duct-tape, if you don't want to get too elaborate. Then experiment with a close-positioned mic to determine which sp. in each cab sounds best (a lot of folks find that one out of the two- or four- speakers in their bigger cabs actually works better than its mates for recording) and take notes. Then, try some multi-mic set-ups, to capture the open-back sound and some natural ambience. Guitar Player magazine ran an excellent article on these tactics a while back, e-mail me ("send private message" in your profile) if you can't find out which issue. You will then have, for less money, the same basic sounds that these amps have had right along, with the controls right at hand and the speakers and mics wherever you want'em. If you still want a different sound, say, a closed-back cab for another flavor, make sure that it has the same impedence as the original speakers (probably 4-ohms or 16-ohms for a 2x12"; 8-ohms or 16-ohms for a 1x12") for each respective amp. This is very important! You might also try a speaker emulator or a direct-box along with the mic'ed cabs. Used simultaneously, this would open up a lot of possible routing and mixing options for you. The same impedance rules apply here, though you might have to figure out the combined parallel- or series- impedance. For more in-depth and technical info, address the excellent "Feel free to ask Myles" thread here; Mr. Myles Rose is a forum-moderator and the resident amp'n'tube expert (he works for Groove Tubes, c'mon! ) Best of luck, post back with any news of how things go, or with any answers- and/or questions -to my earlier questions and comments... -k Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshy Posted April 13, 2003 Author Share Posted April 13, 2003 Hey, thanks so much for the valuable info! I've been dreaming about doing something like this since my buddy told me about a studio he went to that had something like 10 different guitar head in a rack in the control room, and you were able to hook them up to any one of 10 cabs in the studio proper with a simple patch cord! My info: The Music Man is a 2x12 and does have an impedance switch (4 or 8 ohm) and a "hi, stand by, low" switch in front--which I've never been able to figure out. Don't know what the hi and low refers to. I can disconnect the speakers by simply unplugging the speaker cable that goes to them. The JC-77 is a 2x10 and does not have an impedance switch. I coudn't find the impedance, but maybe didn't look hard enough. I cannot easily disconnect the speakers as it's not just a simple speaker cable connection (they're hard-wired in a way). I understand that impedance is VERY important, but what did you mean by "safely routed" heavey gague speaker cable going to the speakers? I thought that disconnecting the head portion of the amps might be a little too drastic, but now I'm warming up to the idea. I have Steinberg Warp and UAD's Nigel. I like Warp and use it for a lot of things, but it's still not a nice, miced, tube amp running on 11 I'll research the Guitar Player article and get back to you if I can't find it. And thanks again! This should be fun (I can see the neighbors hating me though). "Pray for the dead . . . but fight like hell for the living." Mother Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 Hey, Sunshy! (Cool "name", BTW!) Since I was pretty much telling you to run long speaker-cables all over your home, I felt obligated to recommend "safe" cable routing, as in away from dogs, kids, rocking chairs, scissors... (Ya never know what a pair of scissors might do when there's no paper or rock to be found!) ...maybe even using various grommeting or "safe-edge" products if you route through walls or anything... An educated guesse: smart money says that the "Hi" and "Lo" positions are some sort of high/low output-power options. I'm pretty sure that was the case with a Music Man amp I encountered; not so sure of exactly which approach was employed. Given that they're using the Standby switch for this function, some voltages are probably being raised or lowered for parts of the output circuit. Experiment, comparing both settings while playing and "pushing" the amp a bit hard. "Hi" and "Lo" may give a perceived volume difference, and/or a different "feel". Pay close attention to "attack" and picking-dynamics; there's likely some differences between the two. If you don't know- I'm not sure, with the way you've worded this -standby lets the tubes' heater filaments warm-up the internal components in each tube before operating voltages are applied to the tubes. When you turn the amp on, leave it in "Standby"-mode for a few minutes. Then select "Hi" or "Lo" for the specific tonal-reponse you want. When you aren't playing through the amp for a while, put it back in "Standby". Also, when you are about to turn the amp off, switch to "Standby" first, then turn off the power. All of these will extend the usable life of your tubes. Make sure you use actual speaker cable, not instrument patch-cords! You risk damage to your amps, wether tube or ss, if you do otherwise. Lotsa people do this unknowingly and get away without noticeable damage, but they are just lucky... and notice that I use the words "noticeable" damage... how many little chips in a chair-leg before someone crashes down onto the floor? If you knew this and just meant "patch-cord" in a more generic sense, sorry! But, I figure... betah safe'an sorry! Speakin' of which... never run an amp, especially a tube-amp, without a speaker or similar (GT- or Marshall- speaker emulator, THD Hot Plate, etc.) "load" connected. Another educated guesse: the 2x10" speakers in the JC-77 are probably two 8-ohm speakers, probably wired in parallel, which would result in a 4-ohm nominal impedence. I don't think that it is "stereo"; I'll take the lazy way here and suggest you ask Myles or Guitplayer for more details! (Don't languish in dispair if you don't get an instant response here, Myles is way busy. But, he's da man!) When removing the actual "amp" from the cabinet, be careful not to touch any exposed wire or component leads, as the filter-capacitors act much like batteries (batteries are actualy specialized capacitors) and can sometimes delivor a tazor-like zap that is potentially LETHAL. I'm not trying to scare you, this isn't that hard. But, if it can be said that a little caution can go a long ways, a lack of caution can go all the way to Hell in less time! Try things out with the Music Man first; once you're succesful there, then turn back to the Roland JC-77, which is evidently a job requiring a soldering iron and, simple as it may seem, a knowledgeable and experienced solderer. "Keep us Posted!" -k Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshy Posted April 14, 2003 Author Share Posted April 14, 2003 Thanks so much. I really appreciate you taking the time to write me with all that good info. BTW, I did mean "patch" in a studio sense, not a "patch cable" sense I may not know much, but I know enough to ask! I'll keep you posted as far as if I end up frying or blowing up any of my gear "Pray for the dead . . . but fight like hell for the living." Mother Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 No sweat, no offense, glad to hear it ,and- -I'd wrather hear from you about things going great! But, let me know if you have any trouble, too. See ya... -k Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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