How many songs do you know?

[LiveMusic]

This is really about those who sing but it would also be interesting to know your number if it's just your guitar part.

 

So, how many do you know well enough you can play with (almost) no looking at a cheat sheet? (If you sing, post that, too, as I'm mainly curious how many songs one can potentially learn well enough to sing.)

 

Right now, I am working on my database... potential play list... so I can settle on a list to master. This database is at 380 songs at the moment and I have another database that has 250 in it that I will have to merge with this one; some will duplicate, so I don't know what the final number would be. Man, that would be awesome to know that many songs, although I guess that's impossible. I'd settle for 50 for starters. I'd hope that eventually, I could learn between 100 and 200. Is that possible? (I mean, with no cheat sheet.)

 

(I will use cheat sheets as long as I need them. Would rather not but I have no choice for a long while.)

 

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Duke

[Tedster]

Without looking at a cheat sheet? Maybe two...no, a few more than that...I forget. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

One thing is that if you don't sing a song often, even if you know the lyrics, you'll forget them. Like running into someone you worked with 10 years ago...used to know their name, now, can't remember to save your life.

[Chip McDonald]

I've been teaching guitar every day for the past 16-17 years or so.

 

Hmm. Haven't thought about it this way, but:

 

The number of songs I've learned - is probably an average of around 5 a day (not every lesson; some times it's a song I've already shown someone before; and saturdays it's 9 hours of 30 minute lessons) 5 days a week, 52 a year... Fudged down, maybe 900-1,000. Say 17,000 songs in guitar lessons?

 

Until I was 25 I basically spent most of my waking time playing guitar, dissecting songs; on my own I probably learned at least 1 a day on average, conservatively... say 300 a year, really conservative, for 10 years. Another 3,000?

 

Various bands, original songs and covers, 17 years worth.. hmm.. Some crossover with the above, crossover between bands... maybe 250? This is difficult, because in my later cover bands it's hard to say what was actually learned and what was played on the spot (which I'll elaborate on)... A Pink Floyd cover band consisting of 90% of their catalog, a brief stint in a Police cover band... Hmm. Yeah, maybe 250.

 

Hmm. I've probably learned around 20,000 songs.

 

NOW, HERE'S THE FUNNY PART:

 

Ask me how many songs I think I know right now...

 

"Uhm... I'm not in a band right now. Legitimately, maybe none".

 

 

I can play through probably.... a few hundred songs right now, but it wouldn't be perfect.

 

The problem is this: somewhere along the line I figured out that if I've heard the song a few times, I don't need to "learn it" - I just "play it back" instantaneously. If it's not some goofy altered tuning, and I've heard it once, I can fake it on the spot given a quick little "real world test" ("hmm.. is that a pull off to here this way, or that way? Oh yeah, obvious, ok, GO").

 

This isn't "learning" a song. If I haven't heard the song in a while, there might be a problem. Or, if it uses an oddball tuning that doesn't reveal itself until the part comes up ("uhmm.... uh oh. That next part requires an open F# string: I don't have one of those..."), then there's a problem. But then, that's kind of fun.

 

"Legitimately" knowing a song is having it wired to the point of being able to play it in your sleep almost. I *think* I've actually come quite close to that at a gig before, actually. Hmm. In fact, I watched a lot of NBA games around the last season before Jordan retired the first time on t.v.'s in bars/clubs, because I was on complete autopilot (save the solos - time to use the brain again) and I made sure there was a tv pointed so I could see it from the stage (it's a *job* in a cover band, not a "gig" per se IMO, so I have no qualms about not paying attention in this situation). That's "knowing a song" to me, when you can do 50-60 songs without looking at your fingers or even really hearing yourself.

 

So right now - I could do that for probably maybe 80 songs or so, probably glitched up. If I was in a cover band it would be around 200. Counting songs I could squeak by probably twice that. Counting songs I could play if given a few moments to check my memory, wooh... There's no telling.

 

THE FLIPSIDE TO THAT IS

 

Because of this, *boredom* is a serious factor. I can remember parts of Allan Holdsworth tunes more easily than simple songs, because they're so idiomatic: "Oh yeah, where he uses that oddball stacked fourths voicing in a pseudo-whole tone series". That's like having a map.

 

I CONFESS.......

 

I can play anything I want, and have played basically every kind of music there is in all sorts of conditions, good and bad (mostly bad...).

 

The song that has killed me live, the few times I've found myself playing it (for tips) is... get ready.. wait for it, wait for it....

 

 

"Take it Easy" by the Eagles.

 

It kicks my butt. A blur of open chords: and there's an Am substitution for a C in there somewhere, and some other little fun detours. VERY EASY AND SIMPLE STRAIGHT-FORWARD SONG.

 

But man!!! You're cruising along there, G, D, C.. Em, C, G, Am, C.. wait... didn't I just play G? Or was it Em? Wait... is this .. which repeat? What was the words? Wait, is *this* the repeat where the aggravating substition happens, or.. hmmm" Just a cavalcade of those kinds of thoughts *every second*. It's so easy the mind wanders off.. you *think* you're just intuitively playing a simple song, but then... how many repeats? Isn't this repeat the break? Or is it the second one? Wait, is this where the refrain repeats? Of course the end... that goes FOREVER... "man, this seems too long... or is it?)

 

It's so simple it lulls you into complacency.

 

I mean, I'll admit I could probably play it straight through right now - I think I've crossed that threshold of inevitable memorization, BUT it wouldn't be comfortable.

 

Catch 22: Memorization isn't neccessary if you can play intuitively whatever you hear on the spot. That likewise makes *memorizing* something twice as difficult.

 

Which is why I'm not in a cover band on the side to make ends meet. It's easy enough: *but *I'd* have to routinely listen to music I generally probably don't like, repeatedly, to stay on top*. Not worth the pittance a band gets around here.

 

So put me down for maybe 150 songs; 250 as long as I can cram for it a day before the test and I've heard the songs before. If I can cheat and "test" some things for a few seconds before the song - put me down for " a considerably larger number".

 

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New and Improved Music Soon: http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald

[Lee Flier]

Interesting, Chip!

 

The way my brain works is almost the opposite. I never get bored with a song that I really like to begin with. The way my brain works, the point at which you can play the song kinda on autopilot as you mention, is the point where it just STARTS to get interesting. Once I am no longer concerned with whether I'll remember the changes or whether I can technically execute a challenging part of the song, that's when I can focus on the stuff that to me makes music worth playing: the emotional expression, tone, dynamics, and listening to what the other musicians are doing and playing off them. Even if I'm "just" doing a cover gig my attention doesn't wander (unless I'm playing a song I just don't like, which isn't often) - I slip into this hyper-aware, Zen-like state that could never be boring.

 

Because this musical nirvana is kind of my goal in playing, that explains a lot about why the music I like isn't necessarily the most technically or cerebrally challenging, and I'm also not one of those people who knows a zillion songs. Like you, there are a lot of songs I COULD play with fairly little effort, but I don't necessarily want to because if I haven't really gotten INSIDE the song it doesn't really do much for me. Getting really inside it takes a lot of repetition no matter how simple it is, and if it's a good song you never stop discovering nuances you can throw into it that make it more exciting, again, no matter how simple it is and how many times you've heard/played it.

 

Of course with original material it's even more challenging because nobody before you has laid any groundwork as to what the song really is about. It's all up to you. That's the coolest thing to me - repeatedly playing a new song that you wrote and pulling out all the arrangement elements and tonal qualities and dynamics and interplay that really bring out the essence of it. But that can certainly be done with someone else's song, too, which can take it to another level that maybe even the original recording doesn't get to.

 

But anyway... uh... to answer the question, I'm not sure exactly how many songs I know. My band plays about 75 right now I think, but all of us know a lot more than that. But I don't think I personally know as many as a lot of people who've played in cover bands, because as I said I'd rather know fewer songs but know them REALLY well, than a whole bunch of songs half-assed. And I think what I would call "half-assed", most people would count as knowing the song. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

--Lee

 

This message has been edited by Lee Flier on 10-08-2001 at 01:22 PM

[Chip McDonald]

Originally posted by Lee Flier:

The way my brain works is almost the opposite. I never get bored with a song that I really like to begin with.

 

Well, if I like it it's a lot easier, because that means I've probably actually actively listened to it - as opposed to putting up with hearing it to learn it.

 

Even if I'm "just" doing a cover gig my attention doesn't wander

 

Well, the gig I was refering to was a sort of ... it was "a job" that went longer than it should have, if you know what I mean.

 

into this hyper-aware, Zen-like state that could never be boring.

 

The folding-space state is the best. That's what I play for; but when you've played a particular Greenday song 900 times and it gets boring trying to reharmonize it, make it reggae (which works surprisingly well), or some other thing to make it "spicy", ... it gets old. OR, it gets weird.

 

cerebrally challenging, and I'm also not one of those people who knows a zillion songs. Like you, there are a lot of songs I COULD play with fairly little effort, but I don't necessarily want to because if I haven't

 

I'm not saying my mind drifts with simple songs neccessarily, but with simple songs I don't find particularly... hmm... enthralling. As in, a lot of "alt college rock" that one might find oneself playing in a cover band that is just plain bland.

 

I love simple songs. Voodoo Chile is great, simple, and the best launching pad for "space folding fun" there is maybe. Keeps my attention because it allows you to do things with it. Whereas "Margaritaville" - can't get motivated about that I'm afraid....

 

.... as opposed to "Last Dance With Mary Jane". A lot of fun can be had there. In fact, that last cover band I played in had mutated that song into something that almost didn't resemble the original, because you can do so many funny things with it: turn the Am in the intro to the Am of "Ain't Talkin 'Bout Love"; Campbell's solo can be mutated into the intro of "We Are the Champions",and then you come out right back into the main riff... other things, fun to solo over, great spaces to put slinky fills, fun.

 

Margaritaville.... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..D strumallumaluma..zzzzzz....D strummalalalll.zzzzz.. "Hey, wow, Jordan just faked out 2 guys and did a reverse finger roll while falling offbalance out of bounds!".... zzzzzz.....zzzzzz..A strummamlumma....zzzzz..z.z.z...Dd strummalumma..zzzz

 

Of course with original material it's even more challenging because nobody before you has laid any groundwork as to what the song really is about.

 

... and nobody can get mad for a "Creative Rewrite" on the spot, either.

 

a lot of people who've played in cover bands, because as I said I'd rather know fewer songs but know them REALLY well, than a whole bunch of songs half-assed. And I think what I would call "half-assed", most people would count as knowing the song. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

I've learned a lot of songs "really well", if not to the point of Xeroxing the sound, but it doesn't stick if my brain doesn't find a need for it to stick. Doesn't mean the information learned isn't still there somewhere, though.

 

Also, motivation became difficult in the last cover band, because we were getting better responses fooling around with arrangements and parts than trying to mimic a song perfectly. Now and then some guy would come up "hey man, that was cool that you nailed that part", but... I'm not playing for that guy, you know? Oh well...

 

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New and Improved Music Soon: http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald

[DC]

Hmmm, it's weird, but most of the tunes I've played regularly I could prolly pull off on guitar or bass without much thought. Chances are I might head into another verse instead of the middle 8 occationally, but I'm pretty quick to recover on that sort of thing. And yes, you'll have to tell me the key so I can start on the right note/chord.

 

Singing is quite different. I blank on words much more than music. Thing is, sometimes we've done a tune we haven't done in ages, and somehow the intro will just lead me into the first line. Usually if I can remember the first line of lyric, the rest will just come out. This is not always true, and sometimes I'll forget a chorus or something really obvious for no apparent reason. Words just don't stick like music does.