creatura Posted August 27, 2001 Share Posted August 27, 2001 I have a '95 american standard tele that is so noisey ...its next to impossible to record through my twin reverb or marshall 100 watt head or any other amp for that matter...it buzzez SOO BAD...let me add Ive done every thing I can imagine to make this thing quiet icluding: -installed fender vintage noisless pick-ups -had the cavities sheilded -used different cables -used various outlets (grounded and ungrounded) -used an emi filter and to no avail...its still unbearable ...please what else can I do ????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott from MA Posted August 27, 2001 Share Posted August 27, 2001 Hmmmm... somethings not right here. You certaintly shouldn't be picking up much 60-cycle hum after those mods, especially with the Vintage Noiseless pickups. Well... we can be sure that the hum is not due to the pickups. Must be picking it up in the controls. You could try "star grounding", where a large capacitor is added. Not only will this reduce hum, but it protects you from major shock too. Might be tough finding room for it on a Tele though, the control cavity is so small. Usually star grounding is done on Strats. Teles rarely need it, because the wiring setup doesn't contain the ground-loops that a Strat does. I'm real curious if there's faulty wiring in your guitar. I mean, Teles are known for hum... but not THAT bad! This message has been edited by Scott from MA on 08-27-2001 at 12:58 AM Scott (just another cantankerous bastard) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creatura Posted August 27, 2001 Author Share Posted August 27, 2001 Thank you much for the advice...does "star grounding" affect tone at all and are there any links that you know of that go into this topic ?? thanx again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott from MA Posted August 27, 2001 Share Posted August 27, 2001 No, it should not have a negative effect on your tone. I did a web-search, but the only links I found for star grounding were pertaining to tube amps. I wish I could give you more info, but I have only seen guitars that had this done... I've never actually done one myself. Scott (just another cantankerous bastard) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creatura Posted August 27, 2001 Author Share Posted August 27, 2001 Thanks again Scott...I did a search my self and only found the amp stuff too...however I just went over the wiring again comparing my guitars to the schematics that came with the noisless PUs an there are a few questional connections...so I will be talking to the tech who installed them tomarrow and probably demanding that he go to any length to make the damn thing quiet....however I am still open to suggestions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creatura Posted August 28, 2001 Author Share Posted August 28, 2001 Well I took it back to the tech and he sheilded the wires(on top of the cavity sheilding) ang its still noisy ...this is a fender cirtified shop...so what gives...?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott from MA Posted August 28, 2001 Share Posted August 28, 2001 No... I wouldn't expect shielding the wires to make a difference at this point. This doesn't sound like a problem of picking up external noise. I would say there is either incorrect wiring (causing a ground loop), or a faulty component. Tough to say without hearing it, though. When the tech had it, did he plug it into an amp and hear the "buzz" for himself? He should be able (I would hope!) to tell the difference between external noise and faulty circuitry. OK... Someone else jump in here and throw some ideas out! Scott (just another cantankerous bastard) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted August 28, 2001 Share Posted August 28, 2001 Yeah, geez, hmmm...it seems to me, in the shop, to just keep the dadburn thing plugged in to a little, oh, say 30 watt Gorilla or something...while you're working on it...and then tweak 'til you get rid of the buzz. You're sure the regular ground wire to the bridge is fastened? Take a piece of wire and hold it between the cable and the strings. Touch the strings and see if it goes away. I had a big ugly piece of wire on my acoustic (electric/acoustic) for the longest time to get rid of that. Looked stupid. Sounded great. "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thx1136 Posted August 28, 2001 Share Posted August 28, 2001 With all the precautions that were taken is it possible that it's a proximity problem? Does the hum change in volume as you move to different places in relation to the amps? Admittedly this does solve anything, but it may be a clue to where to look next. Do other single coil pickups in other guitars have any of the hum you experience with your guitar? again not a solution just more clues. ------------------ Visit BooneRock.net - Play the Rustech Blend'r-great amp, great tone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael saulnier Posted August 28, 2001 Share Posted August 28, 2001 You can argue that Fender's Vintage Noiseless pickups don't sound "vintage"... but the ones I have in two of my strat's are TOTALLY free from 60 cycle hum. I can stand in front of my computer monitor with the guitar on 10 with my amp cranked, and distortion box on... and there's no sound till I hit a string. If I tried this with my non-noiseless strat with regular pickups... I HUM HORRIBLY! If I switch to the humbucker in the bridge, BZZZZZZZ... it buzzes a bit, but switch back to the "noiseless"... no buzz. One of my strat's (American Deluxe Fat) has these factory installed, for the other I bought two to mod a Lone Star strat. Neither has ANY buzz on the noiseless pickups. Which leads me to believe there's some other problem. Have you isolated it to the guitar? I mean, have you had the problem when you go into your amp with just a cord? How about local EM sources like computer monitors, lighting, and other sources. Could it be your AMP? Don't give up, I love my Fender Noiseless pickups and rarely play a single coil guitar without them these days... If you finally get desperate enough to try some other product, Kinman makes another "noiseless" strat type pickup that has impressed several of my cyber friends. I haven't had the chance to put them in one of my guitars... but I just may have to upgrade my Jimmy Vaughn strat... it plays great, but I've gotten used to QUIET! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif guitplayer ------------------ http://www.mp3.com/acousticvoodoo Guitar Forum CD Info http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/Forum19/HTML/000537.html I'm still "guitplayer"! Check out my music if you like... http://www.michaelsaulnier.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynx Posted August 28, 2001 Share Posted August 28, 2001 Anti-hum wiring and star grounding can be found at: http://guitarnuts.com/wiring/index.html A very good site, but not for the electronically challenged. The bad news is that I performed everthing there like a pagan religous rite on my old, early Squier Strat without much result. Welcome to the club. I'm down to replacing pickups with Vintage Noiseless but now you are scaring me....let me (us) know if you find it. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott from MA Posted August 28, 2001 Share Posted August 28, 2001 Don't shy away from the Vintage Noiseless, lynx... I'm willing to bet that his problem isn't the pickups. Scott (just another cantankerous bastard) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creatura Posted August 28, 2001 Author Share Posted August 28, 2001 Hey kids...well basically we(me n the tech)spent a couple hours with my ax when I first showed up at the shop we plugged her in and his( the tech)first response was "this is Dead quiet" and sure enough it semmed it for a sec then there she went as soon as he moved less than a 1/4 inch and that was on the bridge PU...I failed to mention that sometimes if you wave the guitar around you can find a "magic spot"...however this is only some of the time and usually it is not a spot that leaves me in a very playable position (its usually at a cirtain angle from the amp and lying flat but in mid air if you could picture that) and when we switched it to n/b and neck position it was worse and no "majic spot" could be found... he then disconected it and sheilded MOST of the wiring but not all...and assured me it was wired correctly...then we plugged it in again...no change at all...we then plugged in a couple strats he had lying around to compare and they were HORRIFYING compared to my tele ...and for a moment I thought maybe I am expecting too much...then I thought that noiseless means no noise and they would've been called vintage reduced noise PUs...but they are called noiseless...and I quickly remembered putting my mic in front of my twin and hearing the buzz constantly even when I am playing...adding compression makes this unbearable...noise gates seem useless attacking this problem...and come to think of it I cannot think of one album where you hear buzz like this or even close...so someone knows somthing...and I find it hard to believe that in this day and age with digital cable the internet and space stations that I'm having this much trouble quieting a tele... and now the tech is saying that fender sheilds their guitars under the paint(lol) and that they charge the bodies (lol) this could be...it would make some sense in that a static charge could help the paint stick...maybe but for it to cause this c'mon... I love this guitar it plays like it was made just for me...I play lefty and this is hard to come by with a lefty right off the shelf...but man the damn thing is noisey!!!! so I geuss I go off to another tech... thanks for the replies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strat0124 Posted August 28, 2001 Share Posted August 28, 2001 If it hums to the high heavens while your amp is clean, I'd worry a little....just a little. But realistically, if you're usin a Tele or strat equipped with single coils, I wouldn't sweat bullets over a little hum. And yes that hum is polarized, depending on the position of your "antenna" (guitar). I can live with a little hum, and yeah some guitars make more noise than others. Noise gate the thing while recording....works like a champ, and will pass, if adjusted right only your guitar. Just be careful to adjust it so much that it cuts off the end of your notes in decay. I've heard many many recordings of the greats with good ole Fender hum during the intros or breaks. It's part of the charm to me. Shielding works wonders, also dipping pickups in parafin..if you know how. But if you aren't experienced doing any work on your guitfiddle....take it in. I suspect it only hums when your amp is cranked...but I don't know. Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott from MA Posted August 28, 2001 Share Posted August 28, 2001 Originally posted by creatura: we then plugged in a couple strats he had lying around to compare and they were HORRIFYING compared to my tele Why do I suddenly get the feeling that the problem is not as bad as I believed it to be? I've been trying to figure out what would cause a REALLY BAD hum. Scott (just another cantankerous bastard) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thx1136 Posted August 29, 2001 Share Posted August 29, 2001 One solution that I forgot to mention might be to get a "balanced" power source for your amps. A balanced power supply has +60 volts on one leg and -60 volts on the other. Any crud on the line theoretically cancels itself out. I've heard from folks who say this really quites their old tube amps down by a noticeable amount (3+dB). If you can find someplace that would let you try out one of these power sources it might be worth checking out. Equi-Tech is one of the brands (I think-hard to remember that far back) They are not inexpensive so if you can, try one first. You could also go in and beef up the power supply to your amp, sort of overkill on the filtering. A firned of mine does that with his amps and they are much quieter than before the mod and still retain all their tone. ------------------ Visit BooneRock.net - Play the Rustech Blend'r-great amp, great tone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creatura Posted August 29, 2001 Author Share Posted August 29, 2001 well I'd just like to add that I'm playing super clean straight in to a fender twin...as for "things not being as bad as they sounded at first" think again cuz I feel that if I can't get a clean recording what good is the damn thing...I can understand if tons of gain was involved but I do alot of acoustic work and sometimes beef up the acoustic tracks with electric and I'm not getting clear recordings...I have several noise gates and they work quite well while the track is silent...the problem is when the guitar is being played...compressing the guitar brings up the level of hum significantly...ok next logical step don't compress?? no cuz then the levels dont turn out...and tone is different...point is it probably isn't as bad as you could get but its bad enough to be unrecordable for any pro recording...but the sound of the guitar is GREAT the tone is perfect... thanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott from MA Posted August 29, 2001 Share Posted August 29, 2001 First of all... if you're telling me that the normal hum of a Strat is HORRIBLE by comparison, then you're definately NOT having as big a problem as I had thought. I think you're being unrealistic. Your never going to get a SILENT electric guitar. All electric guitars (and amps) produce some sort of electrical noise... and Teles and Strats are known for their hum. It's part of the "trademark" Tele sound. If you don't like it, then you bought the WRONG guitar! If you REALLY can't stand it, then find the frequency (should be around 60 Hertz) and notch it out. If you are making it worse by compressing, then EQ it out before the compressor. Scott (just another cantankerous bastard) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thx1136 Posted August 30, 2001 Share Posted August 30, 2001 To add to Scott's suggestions, try a different mic placement. Backing off a short distance can help with the hum/buzz and not hurt the sound too much. Use your ears to listen to the amp at various distances while someone plays the guitar. You should be able to find a spot to place the mic that will still work, but give you less amp noise. You might also try recording the track with less compression, say 2 to 1, and then compress the recorded track the "rest of the way" to get the sound you're used to. ------------------ Visit BooneRock.net - Play the Rustech Blend'r-great amp, great tone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thx1136 Posted August 30, 2001 Share Posted August 30, 2001 By the way, I helped beef up a friends Twins power supply (and tweaked the bias) and it runs very quiet now with a good beefy tone. He plays a Strat through it and I feel the amp would be quite acceptable for the kind of situation you describe. That might be the way to go also. You could also buy a Blend'r, they're dead quite as tube amps go and sound great to boot. (Yeah, I know it's a shameless plug, but they're a darn good amp) ------------------ Visit BooneRock.net - Play the Rustech Blend'r-great amp, great tone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superG Posted September 22, 2001 Share Posted September 22, 2001 i think tedster has it right- ive found winding a zip cord,from the bridge to the players foot,(yes,skin)-solves most of my unbalanced guitar noise. while there will ALWAYS be a ,(less noise)sweet spot,the induction noise inherent regarding (antenna,fishing for noise!)unbalanced gtr cables,will always be a factor,esp.,at high gain applications. If you hold the gtr in question,hands free,at it noisiest-take a patch cord-and touch the bridge with one end,and the player w/ the other-the result is usually a significant shielding of any obvious amp noise.good luck G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperator Posted September 24, 2001 Share Posted September 24, 2001 Ground wire that goes to bridge is alright? That makes a huge difference. Are you playing anywhere near your computer monitor? Both amps at the same time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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