LiveMusic Posted August 11, 2001 Share Posted August 11, 2001 Last night, I attended a concert by Bryan White, country singer. Not very country, more like folk/pop. Anyway, very nice fellow. Terrific voice. If he sang on key. Sang flat all night. Kinda ruined it for me. Literally. I didn't enjoy it. He had a real good band, though, as all top touring acts do. I'm curious if this was an anomaly. I've heard dozens of acts in the past couple of years and almost all of them (similar stars and bigger) seem to sing perfect pitch. Are they really singing that well or do you think some are not, like White, but are using some kind of processor to alter the pitch? If so, he needs one. Q2: I don't understand how the mixing works. These acts have a big mixing board in front of the band, maybe 100 feet away. But there's another big board and sound man to the immediate right of the stage (my right). What is the one on the right for? Why two? Q3: He changed acoustic guitars on each song. (I couldn't tell what kind they were.) His tech guy would take the one he was playing after each song and give him the other one. Why? Is the tech guy retuning after each song? Geez, do his guitars get out tune that bad? Are they striving for perfection? If so, he needs help on his pitch. Have I mentioned that? Q4: His bass player must be brand new. I noticed he played from sheet music for every single song. This surprised me. Are top acts like this... do they demand note for note perfection? I would have thought a top flight bass player would just wing it, more or less. ------------------ Duke This message has been edited by LiveMusic on 08-11-2001 at 10:02 AM > > > [ Live! ] < < < Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not coaster MODERATOR Posted August 11, 2001 Share Posted August 11, 2001 The guy on the right's job is to provide a seperate monitor mix for the band. The guy in the audience controls the sound the audience hears. It's nice to see out of tune live singers. I'm tired of everything's got to be autotune pitch perfect. The acoustic should stay tuned longer than 1 song. New strings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott from MA Posted August 11, 2001 Share Posted August 11, 2001 Originally posted by LiveMusic: Q2: I don't understand how the mixing works. These acts have a big mixing board in front of the band, maybe 100 feet away. But there's another big board and sound man to the immediate right of the stage (my right). What is the one on the right for? Why two? The one in the audience is "Front of House"... the one off stage sets the montior mix. Originally posted by LiveMusic: Q3: He changed acoustic guitars on each song. (I couldn't tell what kind they were.) His tech guy would take the one he was playing after each song and give him the other one. Why? Is the tech guy retuning after each song? Geez, do his guitars get out tune that bad? Are they striving for perfection? If so, he needs help on his pitch. Have I mentioned that? He probably uses open tunings, and needed the guitar tuned for the key of each song. (Just a guess) Scott (just another cantankerous bastard) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott from MA Posted August 11, 2001 Share Posted August 11, 2001 Oops... Cereal must have posted that answer while I was still typing. Sorry for the "re-hash". Scott (just another cantankerous bastard) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kudyba Posted August 11, 2001 Share Posted August 11, 2001 Ever hear Anthony Keidis from RHCP sing live? Listen to their Woodstock performance...it ain't pretty... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael saulnier Posted August 11, 2001 Share Posted August 11, 2001 One word. AUTOTUNE. guitplayer I'm still "guitplayer"! Check out my music if you like... http://www.michaelsaulnier.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not coaster MODERATOR Posted August 12, 2001 Share Posted August 12, 2001 Originally posted by Scott from MA: Oops... Cereal must have posted that answer while I was still typing. Sorry for the "re-hash". Beacha by 2 minutes!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip McDonald Posted August 12, 2001 Share Posted August 12, 2001 Originally posted by kudyba: Ever hear Anthony Keidis from RHCP sing live? Listen to their Woodstock performance...it ain't pretty... The problem there is that he should never have tried to "sing". It's weird - now that rap is accepted and singing *isn't* expected, he's trying to sing. Strange. ------------------ New and Improved Music Soon: http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/ / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasticsound Posted August 12, 2001 Share Posted August 12, 2001 Originally posted by LiveMusic: Last night, I attended a concert by Bryan White, country singer. Not very country, more like folk/pop. Anyway, very nice fellow. Terrific voice. If he sang on key. Sang flat all night. Kinda ruined it for me. Literally. I didn't enjoy it. He had a real good band, though, as all top touring acts do. I'm curious if this was an anomaly. I've heard dozens of acts in the past couple of years and almost all of them (similar stars and bigger) seem to sing perfect pitch. Are they really singing that well or do you think some are not, like White, but are using some kind of processor to alter the pitch? If so, he needs one... I've worked with Bryan before, and I can tell you he CAN sing. What happened at the concert you attended could be any number of things. Did he look at the monitor console and frown? That would indicate problems with the monitor situation. If not, he could be sick. Stuffed sinus's affect your ability to hear proper tune, as your emotional state can. This is all speculation, but I, too, am happy he didn't fake it with autotune, though I feel your pain. I've been to concerts where my gut feeling was, "I paid for this, the least they could do is sing in tune/ have a decent house mix/ etc." Too many artists rely on it, however. Q2: I don't understand how the mixing works. These acts have a big mixing board in front of the band, maybe 100 feet away. But there's another big board and sound man to the immediate right of the stage (my right). What is the one on the right for? Why two? As stated, the one on the side is the monitor console. Many artists have need for upwards of 20 mixes onstage, whether for simple mixes, sidefills, backfills, or stereo ear monitors. With all due respect to FOH mixers, the monitor guy is the one who's usually, REALLY working! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif Q3: He changed acoustic guitars on each song. (I couldn't tell what kind they were.) His tech guy would take the one he was playing after each song and give him the other one. Why? Is the tech guy retuning after each song? Geez, do his guitars get out tune that bad? Are they striving for perfection? If so, he needs help on his pitch. Have I mentioned that? Sometimes this is for tuning, but other times it has to do with.. the stage show. Some artists like to wear guitars like different outfits onstage. Many of the country artists play acoustic passably or well, but if there is another acoustic guitar in the band, chances are you don't even hear the artist's instrument. This is not universal, just common practice. Q4: His bass player must be brand new. I noticed he played from sheet music for every single song. This surprised me. Are top acts like this... do they demand note for note perfection? I would have thought a top flight bass player would just wing it, more or less. The bass player could be a sub, whether for reason of sickness or otherwise. The country act I was out with in June and July has a player whose wife gave birth to twins at the end of a 3 week run. He'd hoped the babies would wait until we finished the final weekend, but it was obvious that wasn't going to happen. He and the road manager tracked down an available player to sub, and we dropped him off to catch a plane home. (We were on a 50 hour marathon run from Calgary, Canada to West Virginia!) The sub arrived at the next gig, with no real time for rehearsal. He had picked up a copy of the CD with all the current live tunes, at the management office in Nashville. The regular player left his arrangment book with us. I don't believe anyone but the band and crew could tell the difference. That's the beauty of artists using sideman. Although there are some fantastic players you'd hate to lose, there ARE replacements available, even in a pinch. And yes, a lot of these acts insist on note perfect playing, in part BECAUSE their bands change from year to year. It seems like every road player is looking for a big name, salaried gig, preferably with someone who's raking in the dough. When you're playing as a sideman, it's not like you're a member of the E Street Band. You're usually an unknown guy, except to diehard fan club members. Occasionally, players stand out of the shadows, as in the case of Charlie Crowe, lead guitar for Brooks & Dunn. He has his own signature model guitars from Carvin, and he's written tunes with B & D for their records. This is far from the norm, however. It's very refreshing for someone to ask these questions! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif It's often assumed that musicians will know this stuff. Living in Nashville, I guess I forgot my own ignorance, prior to working in the music business here. If you want to see this stuff up close, find out how you can get on the stage crews that work the local concert venues. You'd be surprised how much you'll learn, setting up sound, lights, and video for concerts. Plus, usually you get to see the show free of charge. Unless you're working it, in which case they'll PAY you to see a concert! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Hope this sheds more light on the subject.. ------------------ Neil Reality: A few moments of lucidity surrounded by insanity. It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpy Posted August 12, 2001 Share Posted August 12, 2001 Hey neil was scott playing drums when you worked with him?? kinda know scott...and he was playing with him for awhile.. laters... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasticsound Posted August 14, 2001 Share Posted August 14, 2001 Originally posted by grumpy: Hey neil was scott playing drums when you worked with him?? kinda know scott...and he was playing with him for awhile.. laters... I worked local crew on several shows here in Nashville, so I had little contact with the players. The show I remember well, he was opening for Vince Gill. Pretty early in his career. ------------------ Neil Reality: A few moments of lucidity surrounded by insanity. It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fire Posted August 14, 2001 Share Posted August 14, 2001 Well Jimi Hendrix didn't sing in tune all the time ------------------ I play WashBurn And I use a Marshall I play WashBurn And I use a Marshall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott from MA Posted August 14, 2001 Share Posted August 14, 2001 Originally posted by Red Fire: Well Jimi Hendrix didn't sing in tune all the time What the hell does that mean?! Are you suggesting that Hendrix should be the standard by which all else is measured? His guitar was often out of tune too... do you consider that OK? You're right... Jimi was a LOUSY singer, and he was the first to admit it. I doubt he would have wanted to be the benchmark for future singers. This message has been edited by Scott from MA on 08-14-2001 at 04:13 PM Scott (just another cantankerous bastard) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve LeBlanc Posted August 14, 2001 Share Posted August 14, 2001 He also had a tendency to play minor passages over major chord progressions... should we all follow suit? umm, why not? This message has been edited by Steve LeBlanc on 08-14-2001 at 02:36 PM http://www.youtube.com/notesleb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasticsound Posted August 14, 2001 Share Posted August 14, 2001 Originally posted by Red Fire: Well Jimi Hendrix didn't sing in tune all the time 9 posts and you're makin' friends and influencing people all over this forum! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Not to worry, we're all entitled to our ridiculous opinions, and while we're an opinionated bunch, if you stick around, you'll find it's a lot better than it seems, right now. As for Hendrix in tune... Uh... the man died of an overdose.. wasn't known for being sober onstage... I don't know about the studio, but... It's pretty hard to be in tune when you're drunk or stoned... of course you THINK you are at the time. (I can only vouch for drunk on this one, and I haven't been in 15 years, so your mileage may vary.) ------------------ Neil Reality: A few moments of lucidity surrounded by insanity. It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott from MA Posted August 14, 2001 Share Posted August 14, 2001 Originally posted by Scott from MA: a tendency to play minor passages over major chord progressions OK... that came out very different then what I had meant to say. Call me stupid! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/redface.gif In fact... I'm going to retract that statement all together. Scott (just another cantankerous bastard) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve LeBlanc Posted August 14, 2001 Share Posted August 14, 2001 That's cool Scott...I had to call you on it though http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif...I think I know what you were trying to say...kinda like: Charlie Parker shot heroin does that mean anyone who wants to burn BeBop jazz should? Right? For the record...I do like a lot of Jimi's singing and he wasn't didn't always sing out of tune. His guitar was almost always out of tune but there were good reasons for that it had very little to do with how High/Drunk he was...I could be wrong but I've struggled with Strats before and he stretched it further than I ever will http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif. This message has been edited by Steve LeBlanc on 08-14-2001 at 04:20 PM http://www.youtube.com/notesleb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott from MA Posted August 14, 2001 Share Posted August 14, 2001 Sure, Steve... I can count on you to bust my nuts! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Scott (just another cantankerous bastard) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveMusic Posted August 15, 2001 Author Share Posted August 15, 2001 Neil, he had one of his earplug monitor thingies out. They have one for both ears, right? He would put it in and then take it out. Of course, I see a lot of performers do this. Do these things not stay in well or does it have something to do with the sound? Good post to this thread, by the way. ------------------ Duke > > > [ Live! ] < < < Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip McDonald Posted August 15, 2001 Share Posted August 15, 2001 A) Jimi's voice was/is immediately recognizable as "Jimi Hendrix"; there's a lot of generic voices around that are perfect - perfectly boring. B) For what he used it for, it worked fine. C) I haven't heard a lot of singers emote as well as he did with his voice on "Machine Gun". D) I've never heard a perfect singer. ------------------ New and Improved Music Soon: http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald This message has been edited by Chip McDonald on 08-14-2001 at 08:46 PM Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/ / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasticsound Posted August 16, 2001 Share Posted August 16, 2001 Originally posted by LiveMusic: Neil, he had one of his earplug monitor thingies out. They have one for both ears, right? He would put it in and then take it out. Of course, I see a lot of performers do this. Do these things not stay in well or does it have something to do with the sound? Good post to this thread, by the way. Thanks for the kind words. There's no simple answer to this one. I was just out with The Wilkinsons. Amanda and Tyler use stereo ear monitors, and Steve (they're dad) uses only the left, but has a wedge on the right. He only puts vocal in the wedge. The ear has his vox, acoustic, Amanda, and Tyler's vox. He's listening to their voices and his guitar in one ear only! Meanwhile, on the first gig I mixed with them, Amanda & Tyler were kind enough to inform me that they play with the ears onstage a lot. Sometimes they pull one out for a while. This has nothing to do with the monitor mixer. I'd have been pulling teeth out, trying to figure out what was wrong, had they not given me a heads up. (Turns out part of the reason is they need new, better fitting ear molds.) When I came on they had only a single clean set of the yellow, E*A*R type plugs that come with the Shure PSM ear monitors, for me to use. After that set was destroyed, I had to use the clear plastic inserts Shure provided. None of the sizes fit my ear well. I can attest to the fact that bass response on these units goes completely out the door without isolation. (And I was using dual driver E5 ears.) I thought one mixing board had a broken headphone amp, because the ears sounded like a transistor radio. The bass was not coupling with the air in my ear canal, because it could vent out so easily. So, to answer your question, it could've been a broken ear monitor, or a bad mix, or he wanted to hear more of the stage volume, or he needed to give that ear a rest, or he needs new molds, or... I think you get the picture! Given the state of his singing, I do think it's likely he was attempting to get a better feel for tuning by taking that ear out. Kinda like putting your finger in your ear temporarily to hear your voice over outside noise. Hope this helps! ------------------ Neil Reality: A few moments of lucidity surrounded by insanity. It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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