fet Posted July 9, 2001 Share Posted July 9, 2001 Punk-style guitar (i.e. Ramones, Iggy Pop, Sex Pistols, Offspring) is just another color in the rainbow of guitar sounds/textures. Nothing wrong with it, if that's the emotion you're intending to evoke in your listeners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Posted July 9, 2001 Share Posted July 9, 2001 Any of us who have done covers for years can hear a Ramones song and know how to play it instantly, but so what? A lot of the punk stuff is good music reguardless of the playing difficulty and lack of lead breaks. I think it's perfect for beginners to learn and a good song is a good song. Who's that guy with a Marine haircut and tatoos and apparently can't be bothered with shirt wearing? Anyway, when Joey Ramone died he said; "Man, the Ramones were great, it was like four retarded guys playing rock & roll." After I stopped laughing I realized he was right and I still love the Ramones. -David http://www.garageband.com/artist/MichaelangelosMuse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted July 9, 2001 Share Posted July 9, 2001 I came up as a musician during the birth of punk, and boy was I glad to see it happen. At the time (mid 70's) rock music had begun to take itself WAAAYYY too seriously. And of course a lot of the prog-rockers and such worried that punk would dilute the talent pool. But the 80's spawned a whole new generation of shredders. So I think fet is dead on - punk simply provided ANOTHER avenue to go down. It's not as if technically great players went away simply because a lot of 3-chord bands sprung up in the wake of the Ramones. I prefer to think that the punk bands released the stranglehold that the industry had on music - the notion that you have to study for years and shell out millions of dollars to make good music. There will always be those who will do that, but there's a lot of joy in "folk music" - music that can be played by anyone - and punk is simply one of the latest types of folk music, if you will. --Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted July 9, 2001 Share Posted July 9, 2001 I agree there is a shortage of good guitar playing in modern rock. I think it's pretty lame that anybody would "frown" on the idea of doing a solo. But anybody can take a good thing and turn it into a stupid elitist thing. I guess now it happens with alt-rockers who think it's not cool to be able to actually play, just as shredders look down on THEM for NOT being able to play. Sigh... I try to walk a line somewhere in the middle. Yes, I do solos, and I think it takes a certain degree of technical ability to express what I want to express on guitar, which goes beyond what the alt-rockers do. However, I am a long way from a shredder and don't care to be one. Again I guess it goes back to what you are hearing in your head and how much it will take to get it to come out of the guitar. If what you want to play is technically harder than what you can play, I'd say you were a real dork if you didn't work on your playing because you had some elitist punk attitude that says it's not "cool". But if what makes you happy is 3 chord Ramones songs, you shouldn't have to apologize for that either. --Lee This message has been edited by Lee Flier on 07-09-2001 at 11:42 AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strat0124 Posted July 9, 2001 Share Posted July 9, 2001 I have to second that, Punk was a wakeup call to the rock establishment, and it produced some of the same energy that early rock n roll had, stripped down to bare essentials. I also was around at the birth.....in fact first band I heard was the New York Dolls.....I hated the singer, but the guitars were fantastic. Look at all the bands that have jumped on the punk movement and beyond. My son has all the Drop Kick Murphy's and other stuff like that, not bad stuff. Though different. Lou Reed sounded kinda punk to me, Iggy Pop was damn cool as well. It's funny, I remember back then there were the Techno factions, Punk factions, Classic Rockers, and Disco guys all arguing about how they hated each other back then.......Deja Vu? Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHAN Posted July 9, 2001 Share Posted July 9, 2001 I must admit I never "GOT" the whole punk thing. It just never hit me the right way I guess. The one thing that always sticks out to me though is that it was very honest, and I respect that. Now this new generation of punkers to me is just rediculous. When I hear Green day it just sounds so fake to me. Four white kids growing up in the mid '80's to early '90's from middle to upper class backgrounds singing punk songs, but they have NOTHING TO BE PISSED ABOUT!!! Yea, real sincere. I call it "SPAZ ROCK"!!!! In about 10 years K-TEL will do the compilation: *************___M O N S T E R S___O F___S P A Z_____***************** BECAUSE EVERY BAD BOY'S GOT HIS SPAZ SIDE http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/redface.gif ------------------ ----------- KHAN (Always hopeful, yet discontent) www.floydtribute.hpwebhost.com So Many Drummers. So Little Time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip McDonald Posted July 9, 2001 Share Posted July 9, 2001 I kind of consider the Ramones their own thing... when I think of the start of "punk" I think of seeing reports on television about the Sex Pistols in England... ...Which directly led to the current anti-ability anti-knowledge anti-solo ethic so prevalent today. So no, I don't think it was good for *guitar*, although it was probably good for *music* from an oblique standpoint. At the same time, I think that philosophy has run it's course with Greenday - who are the qientessential example of punk played with a non-punk philosophy: well rehearsed, well written, well recorded, well thought out, well executed. Post Greenday - Blink182 et al. - just pop music. Unfortunately, "punk" as an ethic I relegate to the same category now as Elvis worshippers. It's iconoclastically dated. I was just remarking to a friend that sent me email after seeing Ozzfest in D.C. I think, that eventually Complete Self Obliteration will be the ultimate in entertainment value. He was reporting about the various commercially decadent sights he witnessed there involving self-mutilation, and it occurs to me that ultimately we're headed towards a very weird crux of culling in our society: the mentally unstable are going to cut themselves out of the evolutionary picture suddenly I think. .....All starts with Sid V. rolling around on a broken bottle on stage back in '76. ------------------ New and Improved Music Soon: http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/ / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrg music Posted July 9, 2001 Share Posted July 9, 2001 Originally posted by Lee Flier: snip So I think fet is dead on - punk simply provided ANOTHER avenue to go down. It's not as if technically great players went away simply because a lot of 3-chord bands sprung up in the wake of the Ramones. I prefer to think that the punk bands released the stranglehold that the industry had on music - the notion that you have to study for years and shell out millions of dollars to make good music. There will always be those who will do that, but there's a lot of joy in "folk music" - music that can be played by anyone - and punk is simply one of the latest types of folk music, if you will. --Lee Interesting concept Lee, I had never until now really thought about punk as a modern kinda 'folk music' but you're right on the money, that is exactly what it was!! Its good side was that it really bought out a rush of seriously good songs.... I loved bands like the Sex Pistols, The Stranglers ( although they became pretty sad and establishment later on), The Boomtown Rats, The Pirates etc. I could go on forever..... However I loved the energy, the pretty poor playing and the F**k you attitude.... Khan is also right imho, in so far as he says that todays punk is 'spaz' I'm not sure about the sincerity angle, cos I don't remember the Pistols being very sincere http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif but Green Day and the like are a very poor imitation. Simon http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif ------------------ ...remember there is absolutely no point in talking about someone behind their back unless they get to hear about it... ...remember there is absolutely no point in talking about someone behind their back unless they get to hear about it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Gauss Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 nothing new here. if we're referring to attitude/ability, then real rock and roll IS/WAS punk ethos. from day one. if gene vincent's distorted scream of "rock" in "woman love" or elvis' "uh huh" ain't punk ethos, i don't don't know what is! how about early who songs? how about the whole NUGGETS boxset? all that stuff was ages before even the MC5, let alone the dolls, pistols or blink 182. "wild thing" by the troggs is pretty damn punk as far as playing ability goes, but jimi sure liked it too. it's a good song. like any other form of communication (including these forums), if somebody has something to say, they'll find a way to say it despite any limitations they may have. of course, the key is whether the message is any good or not....gabba gabba hey! however, if we're talking about the early spirit of punk rock then we've got to talk about the DIY (do it yourself) movement that punk spawned and by that definiton, everyone on this forum who makes recorded music of any kind and doesn't have a major label deal is a punk!!!! get out yer purple hair dye kids... btw, anybody who plays guitar, good or badly is good for guitar in this day and age! -d. gauss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 Being a relatively new player (< 1 year) I tend to still view things from the perspective of a fan. All I know is that if the music can move you the technical skill of the player is of less importance. I personally want to be a very skilled guitarist some day, but I appreciate a good rocking tune. Check out The Sex Pistols rendition of Roadrunner off "The Great Rock and Roll Swindle. It's a brilliant disaster. The NY Dolls also is one of my favorite old early punk bands and they couldn't play either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 d gauss: as usual, you are right on the money! tehuni: good for you, too. I think it's ALWAYS important to maintain the perspective of a fan. How many of you guys go out and support other local bands? Do you try to just listen to the music as a fan, or are you constantly critiquing it because you're a musician? http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif I've always been a very supportive fan, still am, and I think that helps me to keep a good perspective with my own music. --Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatoriJoe Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 I wouldn't be lumping Green Day into the same category as Blink 182 playing wise or songwriting. As Chip said Green Day is well-rehearsed, well thought-out, and evolving. Billie Joe Armstrong is getting better as a guitarist and his songwriting is branching out. There are horns on some songs and string arrangements. Anyway...back to the question at hand. I like punk music and it helped me get into music. I moved out of "small town" Wisconsin after 8th grade and was in the grip of rap music. I was into it, though, because there was nothing that I knew that was popular that I liked besides it. I think I had a Third Eye Blind, They Might Be Giants, and Garbage cd other than my rap. When I moved to "slightly larger town" Wisconsin I made friends with my neighbor who liked punk and ska like Pennywise, Blue Meanies, and Less Than Jake (if you know what they are). They are mostly rehash political punk groups born out of Minor Threat and The Clash. A little edgier than pop/punk but hook heavy. Well, I really liked this music. I liked it alot better than my rap and it felt good to have to find the music 'underground'. But in my search of 'good music' I found better music like Sonic Youth, Nirvana (late bloomer), Fugazi, Godspeed You Black Emperor!, and each new band that I found I got 6 more to check out. My musical interests increased and now I like a ton of stuff. Some popular stuff, underground, old stuff and one of the MAIN instigators (sp?) of that was Napster. But that's a whole other story. I still like punk and it has had a major influence on my life. It made me pick up a guitar. It made me look deeper for good music. I wouldn't really be able to discuss with you the major influences of punk in 1976 because I still I had 7 years 'til I would arrive here. But I do know the influences in my life that it's had. I agree, though, that punk has run its course. I can't stand these unoriginal bands arriving on the scene. I'm also probably in the minority of people who went and found better music from shitty music in my opinion. But it's gotten to the point where I can appreciate good rap music again and took out my Beastie Boys and was reminded why I bought the album. By the way Chip, wasn't it Iggy Pop who fell on the broken bottle? Joey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip McDonald Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 Originally posted by SatoriJoe: Fugazi, Fugazi - there's a band that has consistently stuck to their punk ethic on commercialism. Unbelievable... but they're getting by I suppose. By the way Chip, wasn't it Iggy Pop who fell on the broken bottle? Yeah, but there was a time when everyone was falling on broken bottles, or "accidentally" cutting themselves, etc... all silly prentiousness that is no different than a poofter hair band in the 80's tossing there hair around: a gesture done as a nod towards the show side of things. A *real* punk band would be somewhere in a garage in Georgia, a bunch of dumb redneck kids trying to play Greenday while they weren't flunking out of school, too dumb to even run a 4 track to make a demo, singing songs about their knocked-up teen girlfriends, stoned, playing on year old guitar strings because it's "good enough", with Peavey amps all the way on 10, paid for by their McJobs. That's the only thing that would be "punk" these days. *Everything* else is *planned commercialism* - which is a dichotomy to the very notion of "punk". Punk happens, it isn't crafted. Malcom McLaren was clever in guiding a disaster into the public spotlight for all to see... that's got to happen again if you really want "punk" music; and it really doesn't have anything to do with the style of music, for that matter. There's probably dozens of such bands/opportunities just waiting for the rape of Big Label Attention... that isn't going to happen. ASIDE: Just imagine, that if a big label went out and grabbed a bunch of punk-ass kids - *not "punk music" kids but *punks* - playing their primitive garage music, stuck them on t.v., completely in the raw singing banal and profane songs - it would be a big hit. BIG hit; kids would eat it up. Because *it's got nothing to do with the music* these days. It's merely a product, and a product that would sell well right now would be "loser kids having fun ignorant of their loser status". Put that on MTV in rotation and you've got a really big hit. The *trick* would be in the authenticity. ------------------ New and Improved Music Soon: http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/ / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatoriJoe Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 *deletes mis-timed enter key* This message has been edited by SatoriJoe on 07-10-2001 at 01:51 AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatoriJoe Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 Originally posted by Chip McDonald: Just imagine, that if a big label went out and grabbed a bunch of punk-ass kids - *not "punk music" kids but *punks* - playing their primitive garage music, stuck them on t.v., completely in the raw singing banal and profane songs - it would be a big hit. BIG hit; kids would eat it up. Because *it's got nothing to do with the music* these days. It's merely a product, and a product that would sell well right now would be "loser kids having fun ignorant of their loser status". Put that on MTV in rotation and you've got a really big hit. The *trick* would be in the authenticity. That reminded me of that MTV movie '2gether'. It was just a complete spoof on the whole pop-scene but just to show off the irony the 'soundtrack' did really well in sales. And the 'band' got their own tv show. It was just a messed-up Monkees. I actually just saw Fugazi 2 weeks ago. They sounded great and played for a long time, like 2 hours or so. It was really hot in the place and was packed but had a good time. I locked my keys in the car, though, and my dad had to drive up 40 minutes at midnight on a weekday to open the door. Second time that's happened. Joey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Gauss Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 <> that would be "nashville pussy" wouldn't it? a fuckin' great live show with a 6 foot tall-girl-fire-breathin' bassist (who's brother is a portland trailblazer), a half naked large breasted girl lead guitar player, and a short , balding scummy dirt-bag looking guitar/frontman who plays ted nugent and motown tunes at breakneck speed and volume....they might have broken up by now (which would add credibility), but i've seen them several times as well as opened for them opened for them and they were an all out frontal assualt... -d. gauss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strat0124 Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 Originally posted by d gauss: <> that would be "nashville pussy" wouldn't it? a fuckin' great live show with a 6 foot tall-girl-fire-breathin' bassist (who's brother is a portland trailblazer), a half naked large breasted girl lead guitar player, and a short , balding scummy dirt-bag looking guitar/frontman who plays ted nugent and motown tunes at breakneck speed and volume....they might have broken up by now (which would add credibility), but i've seen them several times as well as opened for them opened for them and they were an all out frontal assualt... -d. gauss Man....I haven't heard them in a long time, are they still together? Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art Posted July 11, 2001 Share Posted July 11, 2001 I was never really into "Punk" but I do appreciate the attitude and energy that they dish out. Sure, some of those guys can barely play their instuments but they can be pretty darn entertaining. I think "Punk" has had a positive effect on guitar music. I don't think that great music is all about chops and precision. Without fire, great technique can sound sterile. Just my humble opinion........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip McDonald Posted July 12, 2001 Share Posted July 12, 2001 Originally posted by d gauss: that would be "nashville pussy" wouldn't it? Not really, but I'm amazed they're not bigger... Hmm. On the other hand, it's the "see them live" problem; some bands don't translate recorded until you see what they're about live. Visuals alter interpretation of music, or obviously in some cases supplants it entirely... ------------------ New and Improved Music Soon: http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/ / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Gauss Posted July 12, 2001 Share Posted July 12, 2001 <> did someone sat GWAR? the residents? those fat, old, rich, bloated guys with wigs, what's their name, oh yeah KISS! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif -d. gauss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosespappy Posted July 12, 2001 Share Posted July 12, 2001 A few years ago, the radio told the trend, that is changing rapidly. I've lucky to have a group of high school kids hangin' out in the studio with rose. Most of these kids are classically trained, and still love to ROCK. The flavor of their personal stuff tends to be complex, though introverted in it's nature. A few do the punk thang... A few do a woodsy,swampy folky thang, A few do blasted tough rides through bad-lands changes. A few could pass for wig-head will-bees. All of them take their music veeery seriously. This... is a good thing for the guitar.... So in short, I'm pretty sure that there's something pretty cool to be found in almost every form of music, and the next gen seems to be doin' a fine job of sortin' through the stuff that floats their boat. I have great hope in the future of our craft. Imagination has not yet been destroyed.... twisted perhaps, but still kickin... R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip McDonald Posted July 13, 2001 Share Posted July 13, 2001 Originally posted by d gauss: did someone sat GWAR? GWAR is a must see if one has never witnessed them before... Even if you hate metal, it's true entertainment. I was thinking it was going to be hokey at best - got in free, the Melvins were opening - but was blown away. They *really* have their act down - and what an act it is... Non-stop mayhem for the *whole* show. It's not like now and then a guy comes out and spits blood or something: it's *non-stop* insanity. I don't know if they kicked out the jams when I saw them in Atlanta years ago, but they made me tired watching them, they really went to a lot of trouble to put on a crazy show. First rate production, brought in their own lights, soundboard - top notch, excellent mix and lighting cues. Amazing how well they play considering what's going on around them and to them. After they start the first song and begin their schtick, you think after a few bars "there's *no way* they can keep up this pace of "blood" flying, arms being chopped off, trolls having sex with each other, monsters gulping "semen", gothic slave chicks cavorting around, band members being devoured by giant dragons, trolls being squashed by a giant hammer...... there's no way they can keep this pace up for the whole song" - and they do it for the whole show. All the while with the usual stage diving and real-debauchery. A fun sight - *from a distance*. Just don't get near the pit or wear clothes you'd want to wear again. Also, don't forget to watch the last opening act right before GWAR comes on, *very* important and one of the most entertaining (and brilliantly clever) bits to the "show"... ------------------ New and Improved Music Soon: http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/ / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Gauss Posted July 14, 2001 Share Posted July 14, 2001 <> haven't seen that, but i've heard about it. kinda reminds me of DEVO in their heyday when they would come out in jeans and t-shirts and "open" for themselves by playing bad covers of the day and get boo-ed offstage by the ignorant fans who had no idea it was actually DEVO.... -d. gauss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emile Posted July 14, 2001 Share Posted July 14, 2001 I don't care what punk is, was or should be. Blasting power chord with an uptempo beat up your ass while screeming in a mic completely drunk still gives me jolts when I'm lucky enough to be in a context where it happens. Hearing people doing it live or on record sort of have that kind of adrenaline boost effect too. If nowadays it gets overproduced because the efforts of the pionneers paid off to the point where it's become acceptable thus corporatable or is just bashed by some poor fucks makes no difference for me. It's all about energy for me and is a fountain of youth just like my trusty old skateboard. And in whatever form or context, it sure beats Adult Contemporary crap (which ironically in 20 years will probably be alternative or something). hahaha. E5 and then some Emile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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