mte Posted July 3, 2001 Share Posted July 3, 2001 Hello, recently me and some of my friends started a rock band (2 guitars, bass, piano, drums). Well almost everything is ok, but how to compensate the 2 guitars (solo + rhytm)? What should the rhytm guitar play and how to select the correct sound on the amp? What should the solo guitar play when he doesn't play his solo? Yeah, I know it's very relative and it depends on the song, but, how do you do this usually? How to decide before saying "you play that, i'll play this..." ? Thanks very much, Matej Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted July 3, 2001 Share Posted July 3, 2001 Yeah it's always fun trying to work things out between 2 guitarists. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif You don't necessarily have to be locked into the idea of one being the "lead" and one being the "rhythm" - a lot of times guitarists trade off solos and licks. But if only one guitarist is good at playing solos then maybe it makes more sense. What I'd suggest is that one guitarist (usually the "rhythm") if they are divided up like that) go with a cleaner, brighter tone on the amp, more suitable for playing chords, and the other go for a little darker and dirtier. That way there is some contrast between them. Of course you shouldn't keep the same sounds for every song, but that's a good starting point. When the soloist isn't playing solos, he shouldn't just stand around looking pretty. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif What some "lead" players do is noodle around while the vocalist is singing, which doesn't sound very good because it steps all over the lead vocal. There are lots of things he can do instead. What I usually do is either play the rhythm chords in a different inversion (usually higher up on the neck or in some kind of different form than the other guitarist), play a finger picking part or a "riff" if it's appropriate to the song, or sometimes the song sounds good with two distinctive rhythm parts that we work out. Maybe he plays a chord and I "answer" him with a different chord, and the rhythm part isn't all together unless both people are playing. If you listen to old Rolling Stones records you hear a lot of that. I might also do "passing notes" that somewhat follow the bass line, or add 7th or suspended notes on top. Coming up with guitar parts that are interesting and have depth, and yet don't step on the lead singer, is a real challenge and one that I must say I enjoy. It helps too, in your songwriting, to leave some spaces in the song for call-and-response between the singer and guitarist, where he sings a line and you answer with a little lick. Hope that helps! Good luck with your new band! I'm in a new band too and even though I've been playing in bands for 25 years I'm still just as excited about this one as my first one. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif --Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted July 3, 2001 Share Posted July 3, 2001 Well, it's always good to think or three things: 1: Dynamics 2: Dynamics 3: Dynamics. And, while you're at it, don't forget about dynamics. That said...there's some music that just goes sorta balls to the wall right outta the gate. The slam it out industrial riffage type stuff. Doesn't leave much room for dynamics. HOWEVER... Just about everything else has crescendos and decrescendos, places where the energy should build and come back down. Whoever is slotted to "rhythm" will be providing chords and/or riffage. The "lead" guy, or solo dude will be chording, riffing, maybe adding little fills here and there, and doing the solo. The main thing is that you are complementing each other, not stepping on each others' toes. You can trade solos if you want. The rhythm guy (whoever happens to be playing chords while the other one solos) has the duty of backing off if necessary to make sure the lead dude is heard...and the lead dude should save some gain for the solo. And everyone in the band has to back off enough to make sure the vocals come out strong. Like it or not, the vocals are the most important part of the song. Don't bury them. "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted July 3, 2001 Share Posted July 3, 2001 Yeah, to add to what Lee said.. Some self-appointed "lead" guitarists (especially at the beginning level) use licks as an excuse not to learn the chords to a song. BULLSHIT! You can't solo if you have no clue of the chord structure over which you're soloing. Both guitarists should play the tune chords only first, then divide up the solos. "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strat0124 Posted July 3, 2001 Share Posted July 3, 2001 Well said Lee and Ted. The biggest obstacle I've found especially when you have two guitarists and a piano....is not stepping all over each other in the same frequency range. Turns to mush in short order. And I totally agree with you....I HATE the term Lead Guitar.......what crap. The guitarists should compliment each other, I like the dynamic the Stones have/had, the give and take tasteful play. Also it helps to have two guitar/amp setups that are different, maybe a Tele through a Deluxe, and then a Les Paul through a JCM whatever. Just different voicings. I've always loved the roots rock/Alt Country sound of an acoustic guitar with a slightly driven electric....too cool. If you're recording another cool thing to add is a high strung guitar. Good Luck...... Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted July 3, 2001 Share Posted July 3, 2001 >>>I've always loved the roots rock/Alt Country sound of an acoustic guitar with a slightly driven electric It jes' don't get no better than that! >>>The two guitarists should compliment each other "Dude, you're a great guitar player" "Thanks, but YOU'RE the one who's great" "Well, but you've got the SRV thing DOWN" "Yeah, but you could show Steve Vai a thing or two" "Hey, man, you're embarrassing me...YOU kick ass, dude" "Nope, you all over!" "Are you, like, saying I'm WRONG or something?" "Well, uh, thanks, but, yeah" "Dude, I'm not wrong, you kick ass, and if you don't like it, I'll kick ass, got it?" "Yeah, you and who's army?" "Right here, jerkweed" (Fade to black as two guitarists proceed to whop on each other) hehehehehe... "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mile Posted July 3, 2001 Share Posted July 3, 2001 I'd like to add that you check out Iron Maiden. Two guitar players... Well, now there are three! You don't hear them soloing one over another... I don't know how they do it but they do. It was years ago that I played in a group with two guitar players. Since than I'm playing with keyboard. Guitar and keyboard fill space just fine. Since you are from Slovenia, listen to (I hate myself for recommending those groups but it'll help) Big Foot Mama and Sidharta... Definitely two guitars. If it sounds god, just play the darn thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott from MA Posted July 4, 2001 Share Posted July 4, 2001 Originally posted by Lee Flier: What I'd suggest is that one guitarist (usually the "rhythm") if they are divided up like that) go with a cleaner, brighter tone on the amp, more suitable for playing chords, and the other go for a little darker and dirtier. That way there is some contrast between them. Originally posted by strat0124: Also it helps to have two guitar/amp setups that are different, maybe a Tele through a Deluxe, and then a Les Paul through a JCM whatever. I have to disagree. Some of my favorite "guitar duo" stuff was done with both having the same (or similar) voice. I've done a lot of stuff with a friend where we are both playing Teles through Twins, and the product is great. We do a lot of harmonies and counterpoint, as if we were two hands on the same piano, and it blends together to create one HUGE sound, instead of two distinct sounds. Almost comes off sounding like one guitarist playing things that would be impossible. It all depends on what you want for the combined texture. It's like a horn section... imagine the sound of a trumpet/sax combo. Now imagine the same song played by two trumpets in harmony. The songs would have the same notes, but two very different textures. This message has been edited by Scott from MA on 07-03-2001 at 05:22 PM Scott (just another cantankerous bastard) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricknbokker Posted July 4, 2001 Share Posted July 4, 2001 My current band, Way Stank Booty, has three guitarists AND a keyboardist. They all do they're own thing while we're working on a song, and usually one of them comes up with something that makes everyone else go...WOAHHHH.....!!! Then the rest of them try to come up with something complimentary. On the rare occasions that a 'battle' ensues, I tell them what to do. After all, I'm the bassist, and have the heaviest ax, with which I will hit them if they give me any trouble http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Steve (thanking the gods for 11 lb neck-throughs!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrbreez Posted July 4, 2001 Share Posted July 4, 2001 One thing that works well is for both guitar players to use the same type of guitar (either single coil or humbucking PUs) and to use amps of different wattage-one player use a 50 watt Marshall and the other use 100 watt Marshall, or one use a Fender Super Reverb and the other use a Twin, etc. Buddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip McDonald Posted July 4, 2001 Share Posted July 4, 2001 Originally posted by mte: 2 guitars (solo + rhytm)? What should the rhytm guitar play and how to select the correct sound on the amp? What should the solo guitar play when he doesn't play his solo? First, make sure you go to a music store and ask for a "lead" guitar, that's very important. Then, forget titles and figure out what's possible and what sounds good. There are no rules. What do *you* think are the answers to your own questions? ------------------ New and Improved Music Soon: http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/ / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott from MA Posted July 4, 2001 Share Posted July 4, 2001 Originally posted by Chip McDonald: First, make sure you go to a music store and ask for a "lead" guitar, that's very important. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif You know... I've actually had that conversation with a student before! Student: "What kind of guitar should I buy for playing solos?" Me: (looking puzzled) "What's wrong with the one you have?" Student: (holding Strat-style guitar) "My friend told me this is a rhythm guitar, and I should buy an Ibanez for solos." Me: (trying not to explode) "Is your friend a guitarist?" Student: "No, he's a drummer." Me: "Well, that explains everything!" Scott (just another cantankerous bastard) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted July 4, 2001 Share Posted July 4, 2001 Oh..."LEEEED" guitar...I though Chip said to buy a "LED" guitar...that's the one I use to learn Jimmy Page licks... http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Seriously, though...(like the little angel standing on your shoulder)...we should remember that once upon a time we were all rookies...and probably most of us had parents that not only knew nothing about amplified instruments, but also vehemently fought us trying to obtain one. "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Posted July 4, 2001 Share Posted July 4, 2001 I do quite like the sound of a Fender (single coil) on rhythm and humbuck guitar for lead. The Beatles did just the oppisite in the later years where Harrison used a Fender path for lead and Lennon used the humbuck route for rhythm. My main advice would be leave holes! Don't play stagnant parts that just drone on and on, leave silence in every measure. This is important for the piano, bass and drums as well. You can get loads of feeling leaving room for each other and slamming dynamics that pin people to the wall. -David http://www.garageband.com/artist/MichaelangelosMuse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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