Taylors and Quality

[neil]

I'm an acoustic player and thinking of getting a Taylor, Electric Acoustic for recording purposes. I know they have greta necks, I've played them quite a bit but what about the rest of the guitar, are they really that well made? I'm a picker and they seem preferable to say a martin but that's just to my ears.

 

I'm looking at the 810ce.

[rosespappy]

Taylor is indeed a fine maker. Wonderfull tone, great sustain. I play a Yairi 12 and love it to pieces. But a nice Guild or Taylor wouldn't have to find shelter elsewhere if they stumbled up my porch steps!

 

Rick

[neil]

Rick

 

Wish I could send you one but barely can afford mine :-)

 

Thanks for the input

[Sir Bob]

Originally posted by dave30:

I'm an acoustic player and thinking of getting a Taylor, Electric Acoustic for recording purposes. I know they have greta necks, I've played them quite a bit but what about the rest of the guitar, are they really that well made? I'm a picker and they seem preferable to say a martin but that's just to my ears.

 

I'm looking at the 810ce.

 

Dear Dave,

 

How are you going to tell by posting. It is so easy to go to a store and decide for yourself. Enough with the obvious.

 

Secondly, if all you want to do is record, then DON'T get the electric pickup ones. Those are for live playing. The best sound of an acoustic will come from using a good condensor microphone, either large or small diaphram.

 

I played just about every acoustic guitar I could get my hands on for a couple of months before buying a Martin HD-28. For me, it was perfect for strumming and after rolling off some bass, I find I really like the recorded sound. Heck, the D-28 is the classic sound we all grew up with.

 

The Taylors have a bolt on neck and like Fenders, have more treble sound to them while the Martins have a dove tail joint. If I played lots of finger stuff up the neck, I would have gotten a Taylor. But I like strumming along and just go for the capo when I need to give it some treble.

 

When you say you are a "picker" are you a fingerpicker (go for the Taylor or Martin non-dreadnought models) or a flatpicker(re-consider the Martin dreadnoughts). George Gruhn pointed out that bluegrass and country flatpickers usually prefer the Martin dreadnoughts for their strong bass sound.

 

Nothing wrong with Taylors. I've notice Taylor owners are very loyal. Taylors have very playable necks. I just liked the sound of my HD-28 to my heavy strumming hand. BTW the "H" stands for herringbone, which is a design on the trim that goes around the guitar. It really stands for a model in which the top bracing is scalloped to allow the top to vibrate more for a louder, more bass sound. Some players don't like the scalloped bracing because they complain the bottom end is too boomy. It is a matter of personal taste.

[fantasticsound]

Taylor makes wonderful instruments. Be sure to try out several models, however. They sound entirely different based on what woods are used for various parts, even with the same structural design. Of course, if you find one that REALLY floats your boat, buy it. Nothing hurts so much as trying to find ANOTHER one that sounds as good as the one you sat on and someone else owns.

 

Neil

[Chip McDonald]

Originally posted by dave30:

are they really that well made?

 

I've found the quickest way to make a fast assessement of the quality of a guitar is to examine the area of the neck around the nut: how well it's carved, how it's set into the nect, how the fingerboard meets the nut, how the headstock joins the neck, how symetrical the nut fits the neck, etc. Any weirdness going on there should equal "stay away".... Look at a cheap acoustic guitar there and you'll see what I mean.

 

It's splitting hairs between Taylor and Martin.

 

------------------

New and Improved Music Soon: ]www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald

[Beagle1]

<>

 

It's true that you will always get a bigger, more natural sound using a decent condenser mic on an acoustic than a built-in pickup system. But you'd be surprised at how well the onboard system on the Taylors record. All Taylor 500 series or above come with a Fishman system that allows you to blend the clarity of the piezo bridge pickup with an internally mounted condenser mic. Just plug a cable from the guitar into a decent DI (even an ART Tube MP will do) and you've got a really nice sound. For many semi-pro home recording situations this is good enough, and in cases where you're dealing with a lot of ambient noise (e.g. loud neighbors, barking dogs, noisy computers) it may even be preferrable to a mic.

[WoodSound]

Dave, I recently purchased a Boss BR-8 digital

recorder to make some demo tracks and possibly

get some sounds good enough for a CD. After

experimenting with miking several guitars, I

was pleasantly surprised that running my

Taylor 710CE direct into the BR-8 gave very

nice results. I was able to get a quality

acoustic sound while recording vocals at the

same time (good enough for a demo).>Bob Wood<

[Tedster]

>>>>Secondly, if all you want to do is record, then DON'T get the electric pickup ones. Those are for live playing. The best sound of an acoustic will come from using a good condensor microphone, either large or small diaphram.

 

But of course, the key words being "if ALL you want to do". I'd get one with a pickup anyway...as you never know when you may want to start playing live. One with a pickup will record just fine as long as you don't use the pickup and put a nice condenser in front of it. But it's a pain in the arse to have to mic one onstage all the time.

[neil]

Lot's of great info here, thanks everyone!!

[strat0124]

Great necks. I like the tone sorta, a little bright for me. Of course I haven't heard an older one. I guess it's tough for me to compare, cause my main acoustic is a 71 HD35.....

But you got to love the action on these things, really fast.

[murph]

Going with the idea of recording using a pickup:

 

You can also get a fantastic sound by using the pickup and micing the guitar. In fact, the upper end Taylors have the "blender", which utilizes a mic inside the guitar. If you're looking at the 800 series, it has it. Use the pickup for the attack, and a mic in front for some body, and watch people eyes bug out at the huge sound! Watch your phasing, though!

[rosespappy]

Gotta love recording my 12 straight into the Fostex. And it's true, phasing can be dicey when you add a condenser to the already exsisting one in mine. But, I can get some very cool effects by utilizing the two signals to help shape the songs phrasing. Personally, as an acoustic player, if I could afford one upper end axe, it would have it's own on board system. Like Tedster says, sometimes that mic is a pain in the arse!

 

Rick

[neil]

One last question. One of you mentioned that an acoustic would be better if i'm not playing live. Well, I don't but mics and all that stuff is a pain at home. I could build a room but.....

 

The guitar is to be used mainly in instrumental tracks. How much of a difference is there between a plain acoustic with mic and a acoustic electric? Thanks

[Lisa]

Before making your final decision, I strongly suggest that you go into a store and play lots of different guitars and compare their tone and feel. After you go through all of your own playing tests, you should have someone else play the guitar for you while you sit on the receiving end of the sound and listen to the guitar's acoustic qualities. This way, you'll hear it the way others will hear it when you're playing. Listen to the tonal balance, as well as the way the guitar projects. This is the one very important test that most players miss when they're checking out guitars.

[neil]

Lisa, thanks you, that's good advice, obvious but I would have overlooked it probably. Do you think the acoustic versus using a pickup makes that much difference?

[fantasticsound]

Originally posted by dave30:

Lisa, thanks you, that's good advice, obvious but I would have overlooked it probably. Do you think the acoustic versus using a pickup makes that much difference?

 

I'm not Lisa...

 

oh drat! I was trying to be serious and I didn't make it past the first sentence. Doh!

 

About your question. Using a pickup is easy, but it is far less expressive. I've used the Fishman, felt the piezo was too fundamental. Not enough complex timbre from the harmonics. Subjectively, the "woody" tone was less apparent than my L.R. Baggs ribbon. With the internal mic, both of these systems become more expressive, however.

 

As to pickup/internal mic vs. outboard mic; The outboard mic, well placed, with OR without a preamp will win hands down every time. But you have to control every noise source in the room. If this is your home, chances are you haven't baffled the A/C, so you have to kill it when you record, or risk it bleeding into the mic. Telephones? Make sure they're AWAY from the room, better yet kill the ringer, if you can. Do you have any kids...?

 

I think you're probably getting the picture. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif If you have the patience and desire, buy a mic and tweak your sound. If not, you'll get more than passable results with the pickup/internal mic.

 

Actually, in lieu of using two mics to capture my acoustic, I used the ribbon and my KSM32 condenser mic, a few inches from the 14th fret. The difference in timbre was strange. Sounds great panned hard left and right, with equal compression applied to both. The highs appear to jump out more on the pickup, and the bass more so on the mic. Or was it the other way around? http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/confused.gif

 

I played with an ATM-831 today, before I sold it. It provided some wonderful sounds inside the guitar. (It's an outboard lavalier with a special guitar clip.) If it wasn't so sensitive to overloads I'd have kept it to use with the other mic or the ribbon.

 

I'll try to upload some examples of both.

 

Happy Hunting,

 

Neil

[grumpy]

I have a taylor 510 and do scratch recordings on a vs-880...

and the taylor sounds great....only thing is when your using

the blender and you have more mike than bridge...it's just like

having an open mike in the room..also have to worry a little about

moving the guitar around and hand noise...but played martins and

larivee and yaris.....bought the taylor....and I have used it in all kinds

of situations and it shines like a new penny...

 

laters

[DC]

Unless you're making an intimate solo acoustic guitar recording, I'd recommend using a piezo set up. I do because of ambient noise, especially the strings squeaking when I change positions with my left (fretting) hand which drives me nuts. I've got a small bodied acoustic (Martin O-16 NY) and I don't think my direct tone (Martin thin line PU) is very different from micing with an SM-81 in a mix.

[strat0124]

I haven't found a Pickup sound in a acoustic I like.....yet...for recording. Live I've used the Fishman Matrix....seems to work ok, though it does have the same problems. I had a flex mic in a guitar but it howled at stage volume so much I took it out. For recording I'd say a couple of good condensors, one aimed at the end of the neck by the soundhole and another placed back aimed at the soundhole. I've got some great acoustic sounds using a SM81 and a Cad E100. But I've got some old recordings where I mic'd an acoustic using a SM58 and it still sounds pretty darn good. I don't think I'd rely on a "pickup" sound for any critical acoustic recordings....way too brittle.