not coaster MODERATOR Posted April 28, 2001 Share Posted April 28, 2001 Maybe some of you have already read the review of H&K Zentara Dig model amp in new guitar mag. In summary, Fender, Marshall, Vox, Boogie in one box. The tester describes the tone and feel as being dead-on perfect. Built in effects are extraordinary. Concludes by saying this is new king of model amps, all others must meet this standard. It's $3,500. Floor pedal another $500. We're in new territory here. If this amp is really that good, who out there would consider making such an expensive purchase. Is H&K re-inventing themselves as the emerging Rolls Royce of amps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beagle1 Posted April 29, 2001 Share Posted April 29, 2001 Yes, I read that review in GP. I wonder how the Zenterra compares with Fender's new Cybertwin? But I gotta say that the $3500 price for the Zenterra is totally absurd. For that kind of money I'd rather have a Matchless DC-30 or some other high-end, hand-wired amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted April 29, 2001 Share Posted April 29, 2001 Geeesh... for $3500 you could practically buy all four of the amps it emulates, assuming you even want all four... That's absurd. --Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrg music Posted April 29, 2001 Share Posted April 29, 2001 Originally posted by Lee Flier: Geeesh... for $3500 you could practically buy all four of the amps it emulates, assuming you even want all four... That's absurd. --Lee As ever Lee ya hit the nail on the head!!! Simon ...remember there is absolutely no point in talking about someone behind their back unless they get to hear about it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip_dup1 Posted April 29, 2001 Share Posted April 29, 2001 Musicians friend has the amp for $2499- This sounds alarmingly like the discussion on Warrior guitars a while back-I mean, how high is up? I`m sure you could find an amp hand-wired only by vegan Himalayan sherpas in a high mountain, pollution-free base camp and pay $10,000 for it-it`s still just one link in the sound chain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not coaster MODERATOR Posted April 30, 2001 Author Share Posted April 30, 2001 I found the 2,500 Musician Friend price. This gets it a little more in the zone. I was already thinking about the Cyber Twin because I could use a broader pallete of colors in my studio. I'm sure these two amps will be sized up against eachother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Gauss Posted April 30, 2001 Share Posted April 30, 2001 <> ..... you could buy a decent used car! or hire a naked supermodel for a day! or buy 4000 cups of coffee... or pay some 80's-where-are-they-now hair band to play at your bbq! -d. gauss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 3, 2001 Share Posted May 3, 2001 Originally posted by tthoyt@hotmail.com: Yes, I read that review in GP. I wonder how the Zenterra compares with Fender's new Cybertwin? But I gotta say that the $3500 price for the Zenterra is totally absurd. For that kind of money I'd rather have a Matchless DC-30 or some other high-end, hand-wired amp. Hi, I did a guitar magazine review of the CyberTwin a few weeks back and the H&K zenTera the next week so I thought my views may be of marginal interest here. I think the zenTera was absolutely wonderful. I haven't read any other reviews yet so I can't say if I agree with the review mentioned here but I enjoyed it immensly and I miss it. My faves are the Vox and Marshall emulations. Stunning to say the least. If my old Vox AC30 had sounded as good as the zenTera I wouldn't have sold it. I'm really considering the zenTera for inclusion in my gear budget. The CyberTwin was good on clean sounds and sounds verging on break-up, i.e. sounds that Fender amps are traditionally good at. The distorted sounds left me unimpressed. When it comes to value for money that's a different story but I so tired of tube problems. Also living in Sweden where US products are really expensive a Matchless (if I could find one) would cost more that a zenTera at full retail. Just my two öre (swedish currency unit of such low value as to be practically worthless:-) Best regards, Mats Nermark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not coaster MODERATOR Posted May 4, 2001 Author Share Posted May 4, 2001 That begs the question: Is your Zentara review proprietary to the magazine or available for online viewing? Did you like the effects? What about the in-between sounds? If this amp is that good, then yes I too am interested. It seems like you've found middle ground on the Cyber Twin. By and large the critics have polarized too much. I and others would appreciate a balanced review of the Fender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 4, 2001 Share Posted May 4, 2001 Originally posted by Cereal: That begs the question: Is your Zentara review proprietary to the magazine or available for online viewing? Did you like the effects? What about the in-between sounds? If this amp is that good, then yes I too am interested. It seems like you've found middle ground on the Cyber Twin. By and large the critics have polarized too much. I and others would appreciate a balanced review of the Fender. zenTera: In between sounds are authentic in but sound, feel and response. Especially on the Marshall and Vox models but all models good. The effects are not Lexicon or tc electronics but well up to the task for doing guitar duty. CyberTwin: During the past years I've had the priviledge of testing and reviewing every high tech amp (digital modelling or not) on the market (except the Crate) and I agree that people have jumped on the marketing hype of the CyberTwin for too eagerly. Then again Fender's marketing team has obviously done a good job. I'm not saying that the CyberTwin is bad in any way. In my review I counclude by saying "while it may not be the only amp you'll ever need, it may be the only Fender amp you'll ever need". That sums it up pretty well I think. It really does the Fender thing very well. All my articles are available on-line but as I'm swedish the articles are in swedish and I don't know how much good that does for you. You can find them at: http://home.swipnet.se/Nermark_hemstudio Due to some demand from readers of these forums I have translated some articles into english and now have a small english section on my site. This section doe not containg the zenTera nor the CyberTwin. The english section is at: http://home.swipnet.se/Nermark_hemstudio/english.htm Best regards, Mats Nermark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 4, 2001 Share Posted May 4, 2001 Hi, I have received a few private queries regarding this thread but I will answer them all here as the questions have relevace to this thread. DigiMax: "There is some confusion about what part of the signal chain is digital and what part is analog. Any info on this?" It is not digital at all to the same extent as the modeling amp. The CyberTwin's pre-amp is a mix of reconfigurable analog components and digital stuff (e.g. the tone stacks). That way they say that they can get so close to the "original sound". That may be so. Glen: "Why do you think the CyberTwin isn't so good with Marshall sounds?" My doubts is regarding the power amp with is built on the same transistor technology as their DynaTouch serias amps. There is nothing inherently wrong at all with that technology. It is just that this technology is built to mimick Fender power amps which it does a good job of. Everyone who has experienced the difference between a hard working Fender power amp and an equally smokin' Marshall power amp will testify to the that difference. 6L6 tubes and EL34 tubes do have different overdrive charachteristics and here is my point. In choosing an analog technology that was created to sound like Fender power amps I think it is really difficult to get a more "Marshally" sound. BTW these thought entered my mind after having tried the CyberTwin and to me it seems like a logical explanation. MasterMix: "Did you try the recording outputs on the zenTera and the CyberTwin?" Yes I did since I record direct most of the time. The zenTera worked great. The CyberTwin worked OK but some of the great dynamics with the amp got lost in the simulation. Also beware of a huge sound difference between the speaker simulation in the headphone output and the recordning/line outputs. The headphone outputs didn't sound good on my AKG240M. Horst Wussler: "Are the CyberTwin effects good?" Some are and some are not. I think they have done very well with the reverb. That must, of course, be a priority with Fender as their reverb has, for a long time, been considered an integral part of the Fender sound. The digital spring reverb sounded really good and you even have the option to place before the preamp liek it was an old separate reverb tank. The compresser left me unimpressed. The rest is good while not being in the class of tc electronics or Roland/Boss. Craig Anderton sometimes asks me if controlling parameters in real time over MIDI causes zipper noise. He hasn't asked that here yet so I will save him the trouble. Yes there's a lot of zipper noise. Not only via MIDI but also if you turn a knob while sound is coming through. If you have more questions please feel free to ask. I will respond as soon as I find the time. Best regards, Mats Nermark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not coaster MODERATOR Posted May 4, 2001 Author Share Posted May 4, 2001 A good question for Mat would then be: How we're the Fender tones on the Zentara? How did these stack up to Cyber's Fender tones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dank Posted May 4, 2001 Share Posted May 4, 2001 Washington Music sells the ZenTera for $1,900.00. This message has been edited by Dan Kleiner on 05-04-2001 at 02:28 PM Taylor K65CE Froggy Bottom F-12 Martin D-41 Huss & Dalton OM Custom Charis SJ Brazilian/Red Western Cedar Taylor XXX-BE '59 Les Paul Reissue Peter Frampton Les Paul '62 Jazz Bass Reissue Gibson J-160e Hofner '62 Bass Ric 350V63 Ric 360v64/12 Ric 4001VP Fireglo Gretsch '62 Tennessean Rose Grtesch '62 County Gentleman SP Epi John Lennon Revolution Godin Mlutiac Anderson Hollow Classic Drop Top Custom PRS Custom 22 10 Top G&L ASAT Classic G&L Comanche Butterscoth Flame '57 Fender Strat Reissue Eric Clapton Strat 40th Anniv. Fender Start '76 Strat '61 SG Reissue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Denike Posted May 5, 2001 Share Posted May 5, 2001 I would be curious to know the price on the Mesa/Boogie Road King - not a modeller in many senses but it certainly sounds versatile, and I'm impressed by the amount of time they've put into developing it. Mats - did you read the review of the CyberTwin on Harmony-Central.com ? I was interested in one of the recent reviews, who sounds like he put a lot of thought into tweaking it - i.e., changing the tone stack position on the ProSonic model . . . if he's correct, the amp has a lot of potential, it just hasn't been preset very well. Personally, I'm not a super fan of the new line of PreAmp amps, where all the work is done in and by the first stages - I already have a Triaxis and Formula preamp, so I'm interested in opening up power amp possibilities . . . I really enjoy the juiciness of power amp saturation, although I've never tried a guitar through a single-ended amp (like the outrageously expensive ones). Lee - you have an Ampeg too? Great stuff! Have you had a chance to try the Reverend Hellhound, designed by Naylor and the Ampeg guy? sounds like that might be in the sweet spot for me . . . I wonder why IT isn't more expensive! www.reverendmusical.com/amps/hellhound.htm Neato - it's a nice time to be around, isn't it? More options than a chess game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not coaster MODERATOR Posted May 5, 2001 Author Share Posted May 5, 2001 Originally posted by Dan Kleiner: Washington Music sells the ZenTera for $1,900.00. This message has been edited by Dan Kleiner on 05-04-2001 at 02:28 PM Dan- the Washington Music Website was down when I looked. What city are they in, or do you have a phone #? Appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 6, 2001 Share Posted May 6, 2001 Originally posted by Cereal: A good question for Mat would then be: How we're the Fender tones on the Zentara? How did these stack up to Cyber's Fender tones? Hi Cereal, The Fender tones on the zenTera are not as many or as varied as those on the CyberTwin. They are however quite good and enough for me. I'm the first person to state that you shouldn't make a buying decision on promises but I spoke to the design dept. at H&K and they told me they were working on additional amp models to be included in the zenTera as a MIDI SysEx download. This is a very good point with digital amps and zenTera. You canb quite easily update an amp providing the manufacturer has developed new software. It is very hard to upgrade the CyberTwin as it has so much analog hardware components. Best regards, Mats Nermark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 6, 2001 Share Posted May 6, 2001 Originally posted by Steven Denike: Mats - did you read the review of the CyberTwin on Harmony-Central.com ? I was interested in one of the recent reviews, who sounds like he put a lot of thought into tweaking it - i.e., changing the tone stack position on the ProSonic model . . . if he's correct, the amp has a lot of potential, it just hasn't been preset very well. Personally, I'm not a super fan of the new line of PreAmp amps, where all the work is done in and by the first stages - I already have a Triaxis and Formula preamp, so I'm interested in opening up power amp possibilities . . . I really enjoy the juiciness of power amp saturation, although I've never tried a guitar through a single-ended amp (like the outrageously expensive ones). Hi Steven, No I haven't read that review but I've been where you are where preamp distortion isn't longer enough. I also want jucy power amp distortion. So far the contenders which has managed a semblance to that are the zenTera, the Yamaha DG-100 212 and the CyberTwin. The most versatile in my ears is the zenTera but the bang-for-the-buck award (at least here in Sweden with our prices) goes to the Yamaha. Good sound, very dynamic, excellent speaker simulator for direct recording and good effects even if they are mono. Best regards, Mats Nermark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not coaster MODERATOR Posted May 6, 2001 Author Share Posted May 6, 2001 Thanks to Mats for his thoughtful and considerate answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beagle1 Posted May 6, 2001 Share Posted May 6, 2001 Yes, thanks a lot, Mats, for all the helpful information you have posted. It is great to be able to read informed opionions from people who have really spent some time testing this stuff. Steven Denike asked above about exploring power amp saturation...you should check out the Lexicon Signature 284. All-tube, class A rackmount amp with very low wattage power amp section (a single EL84 per channel) which allows to fiddle with power amp distortion without annoying the neighbors. I'm still really interested to audition the Zentera but IMHO even if the price is down to $1500 it is still too much. I know there is a lot of R&D that goes into the price but...I was at the music store yesterday and they had the new Egnater M4 modular preamp. This thing is $2000 and gives you four channels of *real* tube preamps which are interchangeable. You can have the original four channels from the Egnater IE4 (which are pretty amazing) or swap out the clean channel for say a Vox AC30, Fender Bassman, or Blackface Twin. Swap out the lead channel for a Marshall Plexi or the rhythm channel for a Hot Vox AC30. Egnater lists many different modules on his web site. Check it out: http://www.egnater.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mats Nermark Posted May 7, 2001 Share Posted May 7, 2001 I was at the music store yesterday and they had the new Egnater M4 modular preamp. This thing is $2000 and gives you four channels of *real* tube preamps which are interchangeable. You can have the original four channels from the Egnater IE4 (which are pretty amazing) or swap out the clean channel for say a Vox AC30, Fender Bassman, or Blackface Twin. Swap out the lead channel for a Marshall Plexi or the rhythm channel for a Hot Vox AC30. Egnater lists many different modules on his web site. Check it out: http://www.egnater.com I'm also very interested in the Egnator but I fear it will present the same problem as the CyberTwin. One power amp type to cope with so many different types of sound. If you hook it up to a 6L6 power amp those tubes will make it easy for you to get Fender type sound. But how easy will it be to get Vox sounds (EL84 tubes) or Marshall sounds (EL34). Those power amps sound very different from 6L6 power amps. The Mesa/Boogie Road King has multiple tube types in its power amp and may be a very cool and versatile amp. The price puts it firmly out of my economy. Best regards, Mats Nermark This message has been edited by Mats Nermark on 05-07-2001 at 05:39 AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not coaster MODERATOR Posted May 7, 2001 Author Share Posted May 7, 2001 I counted 14 modules. At $400 each........(ouch!!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.