Children & guitars

[billyb]

I was wondering what a good age was to start a child on acoustic guitar lessons? I have a 5 year old who is mesmerized by the guitar and says she wants to play. I am skeptical about this at what I think to be a young age. But you also sometimes see young children playing violin or piano. I have never heard of/seen a young child playing guitar. Maybe there is an honest teacher out there who can answer this question. I want to foster this interest but don't want to waste my money if she is too young. Also any guidelines on buying a good starter instrument?

[Chip McDonald]

Originally posted by billyb:

I was wondering what a good age was to start a child on acoustic guitar lessons? I have a 5 year old who is mesmerized by the guitar and says she wants to play.

 

I've been teaching guitar for over 16 years. My cutoff age is 12, which is

somewhat flexible... but not a lot.

 

Buy the kid a cheap guitar and let her play around with it while she takes piano lessons. The piano lessons probably won't last real long, but at that age it will be more fundamentally important. With a keyboard you press a key and a note sounds; guitar, even the tiny ones, require a pretty hefty amount of strength just to make anything happen at all, and at that age it's better to give them the instant feedback of "if I press here it makes a different sound than if I press here". Guitar is likely to be frustrating quick, and you don't want to kill it for her right off; let her get tired of piano, then maybe guitar... but again, her hands will have to have grown a bit, but piano should help the strength situation.

 

also sometimes see young children playing violin or piano. I have never

 

You see kids trained to make squeeky out of tune sounds on violin. It requires ALOT of practice. Maybe violin lessons after piano; the non-intonated nature of violin is something best learned at an early age IMO, and if you can afford the luxury give it a shot when she's around 10.

 

Piano can happen the quickest; it's the most straightforward mechanically, and it is more inuitive to learn theory on. The best foundation.

 

heard of/seen a young child playing guitar. Maybe there is an honest

 

There are 10 year olds in Spain that have remarkable physical technique; but someone in their family plays constantly, and the kids basically probably do it throughout their free time like kids in the U.S. do Sony Playstation....

 

http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald

[fuzz]

man i went though the same crap with my parents 25 years ago.

finally they said ok....but we could not find a "real" teacher that would take on a 4 year old wanna be rock star except this one stoner/studio cat that took me under his wings (and without him i doubt that i would be sitting in my own 24+ track studio typing this now).

 

at first he was all like "learn mary had a little lamb" and i was all like "i wanna be KISS"....a few weeks later i was playing KISS and guitar better than most of his older students, and from my stand point that is the ticket....find someone who will teach yer kid WHATEVER songs she wants to learn it will keep her interested!

 

i would say get her a nylon string guitar with good low action.

the neck is a bit wider but will build strength and wont hurt the fingers as much.

 

my son started "playing" drums at 3 months old...it is never to early.

 

at 5 he is now my assistant....."get me the 414's and some mic cables" and he does =)

 

i think kids are alot more together than most "adults" give them credit for.

 

peace

"fuzz"

 

 

 

 

This message has been edited by spacebass on 04-25-2001 at 01:17 AM

[fantasticsound]

Great response, Chip. I started playing at age 8 with several handicaps.

 

I was a lefty learning righty (Not really a handicap, in my opinion, but I do switch hit on guitar.), I was small for my age (I still have tiny fingers.), and my mother's guitar was a full size, jumbo classical. 8 lanes wide, that neck is! (I own the guitar myself, today.) Somehow I managed to pick up fingerings despite the small hands and wide neck. It was a great help when I moved to steel string and electric guitars, with much smaller necks. The point, however, is not lost on me that many kids would have given up in frustration. (Being a novice musician requires a lot of stubborness to prevail over the damned inanimate object that squeaks and whines at you, even though the teacher just made it sing! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

 

Whatever you do, don't harp on your kid about practice. Encourage, but if he/she is not practicing, let the lessons end. You can always revisit them later if the child shows more interest.

 

My 2 year old has already started to learn, but she's a long way from even HOLDING my guitars, even the mini strat and les paul. She strums from in front while I hold the guitar.

 

But her keyboard? Bash away my dear. It didn't take long before she wanted to try individual notes. Chip's absolutely right, keyboard offers more instant gratification at first. Theory is easier on the keyboard too, with it's one key, one note design. Most notes appear in several places on the guitar. It's after a guitar student knows several open chords and can change between them that there's gratification at all! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif

 

Neil

[Tedster]

>>at first he was all like "learn mary had a little lamb" and i was all like "i wanna be KISS"....a few weeks later i was playing KISS and guitar better than most of his older students, and from my stand point that is the ticket....find someone who will teach yer kid WHATEVER songs she wants to learn it will keep her interested!

 

Exactly, Space...

 

At that age, or any age, you have to (at least with guitar) find out what holds their interest. Took me awhile to figure that out, as I thought teaching from a method book was the ONLY way to go for a long time. Got spooked when I realized that kids were losing interest after a couple of months, and they didn't even have enough chords to strum "Kumbaya" by a campfire (laugh, but that can be important, as a matter of fact it's why some people take guitar lessons, that's all they aspire to). Which is really okay. Not everyone is going to be Julian Bream. So, to start off, I always ask what they're interested in, and give 'em the shortest path to a rough achievement of that goal. If they quit after a couple months or so, they have at least a good chord vocabulary. If they want to go a little further, well, that's fine too. Heck, I've had younger kids take a couple of months of lessons and quit, only to find 'em a few years later playing in a band with their buddies. If they go on to the point where I can't show 'em any more, I'll turn 'em over to someone who can.

 

Which raises an interesting question...

 

Do you teachers find that a good many "students" just want to be spoon fed, and the ones that really start cooking either learn on their own or drop the lessons and find their own path to Nirvana? Kinda like, "Just point me in the right direction, I'll take it from there..."

[fuzz]

tedster man good for you and your students!

cuz you all have fun =)

 

i took lessons from this cat untill i was 8....my father also plays so him and his buddies would show me stuff as well.

 

by the time i quit taking lessons i was playing sabbath,b.o.c.,cream,hendrix,the beatles,dylan...ect

 

and i got to tell ya how great a feeling that was back in the day....i mean i would hang out at "the silver ball"(pinball games for a dime) and the youth center(which gave music lessons) with my 16 year old uncle jammin' while he sold doobs fer a buck and getting all the attention from the 70's stoner babes......man those where the days =)

 

"fuzz"

[Scott from MA]

I started playing piano at 4, and guitar at 7. Never too early to learn, if the kid is actually interested. Just don't be surprised if they go through spells where they lose interest. There would be times when I didn't play for months because I had found something that was more fun. I was probably 10 before I started playing really seriously.

[Scott from MA]

Oh yeah... I should probably mention that I wasn't taking lessons. I was teaching myself out of a book, which is probably why I would get frustrated and give up for a while.

[Lee Flier]

I agree with the sentiment that kids are a lot more together than adults usually give them credit for. It's never too young to start absorbing anything especially music. I started playing piano at 3 because there was one in the house. Started guitar at 12, I just never had a real interest in it until then.

 

I have musician friends who have kids that are already proficient on an instrument at 4 or 5. If you grow up around music it is more likely that you will just think of playing as "normal" and not some special activity.

 

I agree though with those who have said you have to be careful how you teach kids that are that young. If you try to browbeat them into practicing or focus too much on theory and exercises, they will lose interest in a hurry or worse, come to see the instrument as a drag instead of a joy. Just try to teach them simple songs so they feel like they are making some progress right away. If they really love the instrument as a result of those early experiences, they'll be more motivated to get more serious about it later.

 

--Lee

[Lisa]

I got my first guitar when I was about 6 and started lessons at 7. I'd say that 5 isn't too young as long as the child really shows the interest in learning and is willing to put in the hours of practice. I used to give lessons to younger children and would suggest that they practice for at least 20-30 minutes a day. I think the hardest part for you as the parent is going to be finding a teacher who specializes in working with young children. Because their hands are smaller than an older child's and their attention spans aren't always as long, it is often difficult to find a teacher who can gear the lessons towards what a younger child wants to learn. I would suggest sitting down with the child and making a list of what music they like and what they want to learn so that you can arm yourself with what you'll need to find the right teacher. It's important the the lessons are geared to keep the child interested in playing so that they will want to practice and stick with it.

[rosespappy]

Lots of really good observations and ideas here! I would side with the never to young when the interest exists crowd. There are a couple of physiological precautions however. My eldest, Rose, is a 16 year old phenom, on all guitar,violin,viola, cello,keys and vocals. When she was 2 she would crawl into the pillows in the kick drums in my living room and fall asleep. At 3 she started viola(I had a student model) At 6 she was jamming on the other kids violins, picked up the cello as soon as I found a good one, played the guitar intermittently throughout the years. Piano started at 10. We were blest in that when she said, "I'd like to play..." we either had the instrument or could buy one. The precaution part...

 

At any age less than 12 for lasses, and 14 for lads, the bones are extremely soft. Excessive force, for an excessive amount of time,in a constant direction can cause the bones to form in an arc. The key words are excessive, and constant.

 

Our pediatrician spotted Roses fingers bending at 7 years of age. We were then forced to moniter her time on the various instruments. The keyboard and percussion instruments began to take up 30-40% of her jam time.

 

The suggestion to find a nice soft action with nylon strings is a dandy.

But, do not let her think that she can't make sound yet.

 

Let me share one brief personal observation. Rose is my eldest. Music comes absolutely naturally to her. It pleases her like nothing else could. It's easy.Too Easy! Anything else that requires effort to be good at she shuns. If it don't come natural, if I gotta sacrifice, forget it!

Kate on the other hand, is the younger sister. Somewhat of a musical clutz if you will. But, she LOVES it! So, she WORKS it! She plays a nice cello and a riotous trombone. But like I said, she works for every sound she gets.

 

To which of these girls is music the most valued? Time will tell. The Rose is on disc already with her own stuff and it's good. Kate is in no hury to impress anyone. In the long run, the one who invests the most, will have the most.

 

If every kid spoke the musical lanquage, what would their world be like?

Rick

[fuzz]

If every kid spoke the musical lanquage, what would their world be like?

 

really groovy......deeper still if every person spoke the musical lanquage, what would the world be like?

 

really really groovy!!!!!!

 

one can only hope

"fuzz"

[Chip McDonald]

Fact of the matter is, for most kids younger than 12, the guitar is too much of a task. That is not an all-inclusive statement, please note...

 

Small nylon string guitars can be setup so that some kids can play them. The problem is that generally at that age kids are not attuned to the notion of exerting the required amount of effort to make notes sound from the strings. Their may be some hyper-motivated kids wanting to play guitar, but that is certainly not the standard.

 

I view musical desire to be a limited thing at that age, a tricky concept. I have enough experience teaching, and being around other teachers to realize you *can* get any kid to learn "something" on a guitar at a really young age, but compared to what they can learn in the same time on a piano it's not a good expenditure of time versus the risk.

 

Likewise, I've encountered *a lot* of people who quit playing guitar at a really young age: "it's too hard; I could never get notes to sound". Everyone has a different nervous system: some people can't exert "full effort" to the same degree that others can. Literally.

 

I remember this one poor guy: a late 50's fireman, about 6'2" maybe 240 lbs. Pretty big guy. He used to come in after a rather frail woman, a school teacher, who had been taking lessons for about the same amount of time he had.

 

This guy couldn't get chords to come out. He just wasn't pressing hard enough, light gauge strings and all. It really distressed him, but their was nothing I could do.

 

One day the previous lesson ran late; he saw the woman playing a song using chords. As it turns out, this woman had right from the start a very defined ability to use her available strength effectively. Cleanly executed chords right off; I never had to "cheer her on" to make it happen.

 

I ahd left the room; he apparently asked her how long she had been playing guitar, and I knew when he walked out looking crestfallen what had happened...

 

So it's a very touchy thing. Probably most of the kids I turn away could learn something on guitar. I don't know. I *do know* that when I did take on young kids, it ran the gamut - but usually towards the frustrating side of things (for both parties involved). Having taken piano lessons as a child, I can imagine what it would have been like if it had taken weeks before I could make notes come out. The immediate satisfaction one gets from banging on a key on a piano and having a pure tone come out is what a kid needs at a young age IMO.

 

It has nothing to do with underestimating kids, it has to do with realizing practically they *are* kids and will have plenty of time later to learn guitar, and IMO will be better off having had a *bigger* foundation with piano. Some are more precocious than others, but most are not - that's reality.

 

http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald

[rosespappy]

They will be required in college to learn piano theory 1,2,3, prior to a senior recital. Regardless of their major. But for folks who do not have a decent piano or set of keys available........ The proximity of the instrement is paramount. Being able to dabble freely really fosters the creativity and helps to cast it in stone prior to the "that's not right, or What was that?" deluge that this world uses to choke the life out of them. It helps to create a love for the instrement which helps to foster self dicipline rather than the artificial externally imposed type. Just make sure that even if it's a cheaper model, that it is capable of good in tune tone.

Don't wanna train any young ears to hear with too much latitude.

Rick

[Tedster]

Chip said...

 

>>This guy couldn't get chords to come out. He just wasn't pressing hard enough, light gauge strings and all. It really distressed him, but their was nothing I could do.

 

I had a similar problem with a great big dude...but it wasn't his finger strength that was the problem...his hands were like hams...and his fingers were just too big to get a clean sound without bumping into the other strings.

[fantasticsound]

But for folks who do not have a decent piano or set of keys available........

 

No such thing. Yes. That's right. I said there is no such thing. Granted, a keyboard, especially a "home" keyboard from the likes of Casio, Yamaha, etc. is not a piano. But to begin learning, in a situation where an acoustic piano is not feasable, these instruments are fantastic. The less expensive units are about $100. If you can't afford that, you're not going to be able to afford a decent guitar to learn on either.

 

That said, I will always encourage keyboard students to practice on an acoustic piano whenever possible. Velocity sensitivity is nothing like physical, mechanical piano keys.

 

Neil