Can you Get EJ's tones with a simple set-up

[rushtribute]

I would like to know if anyone out there has been able to get Eric Johnson's 3 main guitar tones, with a minimal amount of pedals. Let's assume you have a strat and a 2 channel tube amp( I have a Hot Rod Deville) that can do clean and driven sounds.

 

What pedals, and in what order do you put them in to get sounds close to his?

 

Clean=?

Semi Dirty=?

Lead=?

 

If you could post some of the set-ups you have tried to get a similar sound, I'm all ears.

 

Thanks

[Chip McDonald]

Originally posted by rushtribute:

I would like to know if anyone out there has been able to get Eric Johnson's 3 main guitar tones, with a minimal amount of pedals.

 

You can fake it, but it's not going to be the same. You just need a dark distortion pedal (like a DS-1 set at about 9-10 o'clock) and something capable of getting a Fender clean sound.

 

Let's assume you have a strat and a 2 channel tube amp( I have a Hot Rod Deville) that can do clean and driven sounds.

 

The DeVille will do the clean sound reasonably well, but the shared tone controls are going to mess you up. It has a peaky treble range to it, like an exagerrated Bassman, you'll have to eq that down for his lead sound. It still won't be right, though, because the high end is totally different than vintage Marshalls.

 

What pedals, and in what order do you put them in to get sounds close to his?

Clean=?

 

Get a TC Electronics (or "a") chorus pedal and a Fender amp.

 

Semi Dirty=?

 

Buy a Fuzzface.

 

Lead=?

 

Chandler Tube Driver, or some sort of dark sounding tube preamp. Actually the old ADA MP-1's would do it pretty well. You still probably need a more Marshally-sort of amp, though...

 

If you could post some of the set-ups you have tried to get a similar sound, I'm all ears.

 

I haven't really tried to get his sound, but I have at one time or another had basically everything he has in his rig (save the Dumbles) at one time or another - just not all at the same time. My sound is more of a cross between his and Holdsworth's - I like the more lively treble in AH's sound, with EJ's bass and mid - "sort of".

 

Probably in order of importance:

 

Non-master Marshall: the primitive nature of this amp and it's tone controls lets you smooth out the treble in a very idiosyncratic way. You can run just about anything into one if you have it set right and it's going to sound like Eric if you can play that way. They don't have to be on 10 as much as they have to be set up dark using the bass channel.

 

Dark tube preamp: smooth distortion is important, this shouldn't be too hard to get.

 

Spring reverb with long delay: figure it out.... but really, a lot of one's perception of his sound involves a certain amount of midrange hitting a loud reverb with a long delay.

 

Clean hammer on technique.

 

tp://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald

[THOR_dup2]

EJ's tone has more to do with his hands than his rig.

[rushtribute]

Thanks a bunch Chip

 

I have not had much experience with Marshalls, more Fender and Vox types so your input on the Marshalls is very helpful. As for the reverb is there a good pedal that you can reccomend? I love fender Spring reverbs but they are not too practical to carry around if I were to get a Marsahll head that does not have reverb?

 

Is there a good aftermarket neck single coil that is Dark and full bodied that works well for his type of vibe, I just have the stock ones from a 50's reissue and might be looking to experiment with that area of the signal chain as well?

 

I realize that nothing can exactly cop his technique and tone, I just want to try and come up with a simple set-up that will get me in the ballpark.

 

Thanks again for your help, I really appreciate it very much http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

 

Peace

 

Rod

[michael saulnier]

I'm a POD user and enjoy one of the best POD features: the ability to share patches with other users.

 

The head of the LA area user group, (AndyZ, http://listen.to/andyz), has created a set of Eric Johnson patches for the POD and has posted them on his website. If you've got a POD, check out and download these free patches. I've played with many of them and he's hit the sounds pretty well on most. (Even if you're not a POD user, you may want to download these patches and the free software from Line6. Then load the patches, and check out the patches settings for eq, reverb, echo, chorus, and so on and replicate them as best you can on your own rig.)

 

To add to Chip's and Thor's posts, Eric's sound comes from a combination of guitars, (he used vintage strats and a vintage SG on his recent tour), effects pedals, (he's really picky and even frets over things like "partly used" batteries), his amps, (his Marshall 50 watt head and 4x12 cabs, and Fender Twins), and most of all his hands. He has a unique picking style that has virtually no transient attack, (meaning no pick sound when he picks) and really awesome technique... he uses very unusual chord voicing and heavily arpeggio based solo ideas...

 

This adds up to one of the most identifiable and unique sounds in rock. I'm not saying you couldn't replicate his sound, but I bet most players who had the chance to play through his rig wouldn't sound "exactly" like him... On the other hand, Eric would probably sound like Eric through my or your rig with just a little tweaking on his part... (Have hands, will travel!) http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

Anyway... good luck on your Eric Johnson "tone quest"!

 

guitplayer

[Chip McDonald]

Originally posted by rushtribute:

so your input on the Marshalls is very helpful. As for the reverb is there a good pedal that you can reccomend? I love fender Spring reverbs

 

I don't think it's *that* critical. Try a Rocktron Intellifex, or even a Quadraverb. The new Fender spring reverbs aren't much bigger than a shoebox... I think Furman made a spring reverb at one time... Chandler did for awhile as well...? Eric uses Chandler's delay...

 

that works well for his type of vibe, I just have the stock ones from a 50's reissue and might be looking to experiment with that area of the signal chain as well?

 

The reissues I've played tend to lean towards that "clanky" single coil sound. I know he used to use Dimarzio HS3's with one of the coils disconnected... I don't think the pickups are critical; I use humbuckers and I think I can mimick it well enough.

 

to try and come up with a simple set-up that will get me in the ballpark.

 

Get a non-master volume Marshall. Plug some sort of smooth distortion into the bass channel. Turn the presance knob almost all the way off; set the tone controls at about 11 o'clock. Set the volume quite high; although that's not as important as the tone controls... Run it into a 412 with Greenbacks. That's "The Ballpark".

 

http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald

[KHAN]

From Guitplayer :

---On the other hand, Eric would probably sound like Eric through my or your rig with just a little tweaking on his part... (Have hands, will travel!) http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

------------------

I have nothing more to add http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Blix,]

IT`s very much in his hands. I had a period a few years ago when I tried to copy his setup, and the sound ended up pretty much the same, but ONLY whan you play something very EJ like or something you have learned from the records. I still use the setup and it sound like me , not EJ.

I use a Deluxe rev for clean with a TC Chorus and a Line 6 delay(It`s great!!),An Apollo 2 for crunch(a quite Dumble sounding amp.)with a Fulltone 70`s and Korg SDD-1200 Delay and for lead : a 68 100w Super Lead or

a 68`50w plexi with Chandler Tube Driver and Echoplex.I would say a Chandler Tube Driver is the secret to the lead sound, you can get one used for $150-200. But don`t buy the version with a wallwart, it sounds nothing like the original.

Amund

[Tedster]

>>EJ's tone has more to do with his hands than his rig.

 

Well, yeah, but there's a certain part of any sound that has to do with the rig. You can say Stevie through Eric's rig would sound like Stevie, but in fact it wouldn't. It would sound like Stevie playing through Eric's rig, and there's a big difference.

 

At the risk of starting a flame, I think that you have to assume a certain modicum of skill level on the part of those who make inquiries like these, and assume that they are indeed searching for the tone brass ring they say they are. One can lead them in the right direction equipment wise, and the rest is up to them. If I wanted to sound like Angus, I'd use an SG through a Marshall stack, not a Tele through a Twin. That would be the starting point, anyway, and the rest would be up to me.

 

I was at a store some time ago, trying out one of the newer Peavey models. I plugged in (can't remember the guitar), and hit one note, and instantly it was the Jeff "Skunk" Baxter "Reeling in the Years" intro. What else could I do? I launched into the song, and the sales guy cracked up, as he heard the tone the same that I did. I've never really tried to emulate Baxter (although he's a fine player), and truth be known, I'm not all that crazy about the tone on that particular song. But there it was.

[rushtribute]

Thanks again folks for your responses. I don't want to start any flame wars over my question. I just wanted technical info, I could never play like or be Eric Johnson. I just wanted to see what kinds of gear people use to get some of those great EJ tones. I like his tones because they transcend many different music styles. I'm just trying to find a simple rig with a few pedals etc. I posted here because I figured others have done similar things and used things I would have never thought of etc.

 

Back to the original post, what if I were to use a Twin of Delux type amp in conjunction with an A-B Box into both the channels. What pedals would work with this to get those 3 tones with a set-up like this? I really want a rig where I could roll in one amp and a pedal board and have as much versitility as possible?

 

Please keep up this thread going with your great suggestions

 

Peace http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

[michael saulnier]

Tedster made a good point that the "rig" IS certainly a part of the "sound" of an artist. Just before Eric Johnson's show a couple of weeks ago, his guitar tech, (and we all know how good some of these guys are http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif), was testing Eric's rig right before the show started, and it kinda buzzed the crowd, because it was "that tone". The guy even had some of his fast licks together, and it did "sound like" Eric.

 

Now Eric has the means and interest to spend LOTS of time selecting the exact components of his setup, tweaking the eq and other settings, playing with dozens of stomp boxes, (even going through many of the same type looking for the "one" he likes), and also has the experience, ear, and understanding of what he likes. In a recent "Guitar Player" article he says "he's finally got his sound together"... (implying, I guess, that he didn't before? http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif)

 

Anyway, the point is... it wasn't a quick or easy decision on his part to get his setup , but a deliberate effort to "hear" what he wanted as "his sound".

 

That being said, I'm not sure if you're ever going to get the main elements of "his sound" from a one amp setup. The "wall of sound" approach, (that SRV, Santana, Trower, and others also prefer), is based on the differences in tone from Fender and Marshall and other amps. Whether part of the sound comes from one amp, both amps together, one or both with various pedals, or whatever combination. You won't get the varience or complexity of the tone with just one amp.

 

So... what to do...

 

1) Start with two amps. Preferably one each Marshall and Fender. Add stompboxes and an A/B setup and you've got the basic ingredients. Blend in some hours LISTENING to Eric, and trying to match the sounds you hear. You're on your way.

 

2) If that's not affordable or it's too hard to carry around, how about a POD and an amp. Recently I've started playing with my POD through my PA and, using an A/B switch, also using my Fender HR Deluxe with my live effects chain. This sounds really good and gives me the flexibility not only for a "marshall and fender" combinations, but also Soldano, Budda, Vox, Mesa, Matchless and other sounds mixed with the "real" sound of my HR Deluxe. The A/B also allows me to turn on or off either of the sounds, so I have a lot of flexibility.

 

Since the Deluxe is modestly priced, (about $500) and the POD is also, (around $350), I can get a big sound for a total cost under $1000 including some stompboxes or the floorboard. Instead of the Deluxe, you could any decent Fender or similar tube amp. (BTW, I only use the "main clean" channel of my amp, if I want more grind I choose one of my effects pedals.

 

I'm no shill for Line6 or the POD, and you could just as easily get similar combinations of sound from Johnson's J-Station, DigiTech RP-200, Yamaha's DG Stomp, Tech21's SansAmp, or other similar devices... I think the Line6 stuff is the best sounding so it's what I use.

 

Anyway, the ultimate in a "portable" rig, might actually be two devices... two POD's or a POD and a J-Station, or POD and a SansAmp, or whatever... right into your PA. Same sound, every time, no matter what the room.

 

If you're in an area with the retailers who give a "30 day money back guarantee", why not try out a few of these options and see if you can find a set of sounds that gets you on your way...

 

good luck

 

guitplayer

[sbrock1san.rr.com]

I saw Eric J. play a few weeks ago and he used a red Gibson SG for about 2/3 of the show. I think he has some great tones but uses way to much echo and delay. It robs him of tone in a live situation.

[Chip McDonald]

Originally posted by rushtribute:

Back to the original post, what if I were to use a Twin of Delux type amp in conjunction with an A-B Box into both the channels.

You'd probably need two Deluxes unless your drummer plays very soft...

 

What pedals would work with this to get those 3 tones with a set-up like this? I really want a rig where I could roll in one amp and a pedal board and have as much versitility as possible?

 

A friend runs that setup; Eric used to do that for small gigs lonnnnnnng time ago. I'd probably just run a Tubescreamer, which is probably what he did back then... but you'd have to have some sort of tube distortion (like a V-Twin, the Chandler, or if you can find one, the old Nady tube distortion pedals), a chorus pedal on the clean side with a dedicated delay on both sides (for the spillover).

 

Actually, in a pinch an original Proco Rat with the tone swept down will work.

 

http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald

[rushtribute]

I know Eric is using 2 Dlx's and a Marshall but I don't know how they are configured? Is one for clean one for semi dirty and the marshall for lead or is it something else? The only other way I could see this set up is that you run L-R out of a Chorus into the 2 Dlx's then have an A-B set up between that and the Marshall head, any takers on this?????

 

Once again THANKS for all of the great input and suggestions, keem 'em coming. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

 

Rod

[Beagle1]

<

 

He uses the 2 Fenders for clean (in stereo, from stereo output of TC Chorus pedal I think), one Marshall (or sometimes 2) for distorted rhythm, and another Marshall (used to be a Dumble) for lead.

 

<

 

EJ's setup is really cool but unless you've got your own personal roadie, carting all those amps and cabs around is a MAJOR hassle. If you need something more portable I would ditch all those amps and pedals and go with a rack setup based around an Egnater IE-4 tube preamp. The Egnater is an awesome pre with 4 channels, which can be switched through MIDI: Fender Twin clean, Texas blues, Marshall Plexi, and mega-gain lead. Many Hollywood and Nashville studio pros have an IE-4 in their racks. Add a TC G-Force multiFX and a VHT poweramp and you'll have an amazing sounding rig that fits in an 8-space rack.

[Chip McDonald]

Originally posted by rushtribute:

Is one for clean one for semi dirty and the marshall for lead or is it something else?

 

Deluxes are set clean and the Marshall(s) for everything else.

 

Chorus into the 2 Dlx's then have an A-B set up between that and the Marshall head, any takers on this?????

 

He uses a TC Electronics chorus to split the Deluxes. You should be able to easily enough find a diagram of his signal path on the net somewhere... In fact, I think it's on his web page.

 

http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald

[Ian Stewart Cairns]

Just to put the cat amongst the pigeons

 

Eric Johnson owns and uses a Pod. ;-)

 

"I have a POD and really enjoy it. I've used it on one of the songs on my upcoming studio CD release." -- Eric Johnson.

 

http://www.marsmusic.com/community/askpros/ericjohnson/ej1120 00.jhtml;$sessionid$ZWUEETIAAAGYDQFIACICFFWAVAAI4IV0

 

 

This message has been edited by Ian Stewart Cairns on 02-20-2001 at 02:54 PM

 

This message has been edited by Ian Stewart Cairns on 02-20-2001 at 02:55 PM

[Chip McDonald]

Originally posted by rushtribute:

I know Eric is using 2 Dlx's and a Marshall but I don't know how they are configured?

 

I just listened/watched the new Austin City Limits show a friend made a copy of for me... I think he might be doing just an A/B set up now instead of an A/B/C. His clean sound with the Deluxes is more scooped sounding now, more like newish Alex Lifeson... the 50 watt Marshalls sound pretty much the same though.

 

http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald