semitone Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 I wonder whether i'm alone in this one:I 've been playing the guitar 15 years now,completely self taught.Started with the classics(Jimi,Clapton,Page,etc),moved on to Eddie,Yngwie and all tha high-dexterity 80's stuff,and fooled around with blues and fusion for the last 3-4 years.My problem is that i can't seem to find a guitar player to use as a "case of studuying analysis",the way i've done with the guys mentioned above(and a few others including Satch,SRV,Scott Henderson,Di Meola,Greg Howe,Gary Moore,Vai,Albert Collins,John Scofield,Wes,Eric Johnson).The ideal guy Should combine really good technique.blues feel,tasty note choosing,and good music of course.Any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 Well, damn, That makes two of us. I haven't been able to master all the McLaughlin, DiMeola, Holdsworth, etc. stuff yet either... Sorry for the sarcasm. I guess my point is, if you've been able to tackle all that stuff and feel that there are no worlds left to conquer, you're doing pretty well. On the other hand, have you broken your own new ground? Another thing to consider...if you've got the shred and fusion guys down, start listening to Django Reinhardt, Joe Pass, Wes Montgomery, George Benson...listen to some dyed-in-the-wool jazz. Or Segovia, Bream, Paco De Lucia...etc...or, perhaps Albert Lee, Danny Gatton, Brad Paisley, Steve Wariner, Ricky Skaggs...make sure you bring your can o' Skoal... Ahh, Grasshopper, there is the challenge! Y'all come back now, y'hear? "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip McDonald Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 Originally posted by semitone: fusion for the last 3-4 years.My problem is that i can't seem to find a guitar player to use as a "case of studuying analysis",the way i've done with the guys mentioned above See, that's when you make up your own hybrid music form. I've gone through the same route. Reached the "all my heroes are just humans" stage a while back. So presently I'm working on something that will be a.. hmmm. A hopefully successful combination of 2 basic conceptual elements with a fresh rhythmic approach (one says nebulously...). It will be blues based but hopefully not in a rehash-setting. One tries to push forward... One thing that's lead me to this was being influenced by stuff outside of guitar so I can think obliquely about it. Recast your definition of "hero": Coltrane, Wayne Shorter and some other jazz horn players - different approaches to sequencing arpeggios since their instrument favors different fingerings than guitar. Phrasing accents due to blowing techniques. Singers - Jeff Buckley, k.d. lang, Chris Cornell do (did) neat things with their voice in novel phrases; a turn of an unexpected twist in phrasing with great execution is something to look up to for me regardless of what instrument it is on. Certain new age artists. Primarily rhythmic accents in ostinato forms, but texturally speaking there's brilliant stuff there (Enya) Bulgarian folk music; great non-tempered bends galore, curious "new" ways of arranging certain types of harmonies, different cadences Great pop music (Beatles); this is important - in my book McCartney is no less a "hero" than Holdsworth ever was to me. Learning not only to appreciate the genius of a great arrangement, but to recognize a genius melody in it's simplicity... Non-musical inspiration; consider Michael Jordan. He wasn't the best 3 point shooter. Wasn't the best free thrower. Wasn't the best rebounder. But he was the best; he had the ability to make something happen in any situation, and make the best of it better than anyone else in history. How does that apply to being a musician? Watching him do his thing is sort of like listening to Hendrix improvise... Michael Schumaker, Mika Hakkinen; race car drivers. They maintain their cool over 2 hours of unreal intense concentration - and consistently do it. Quick thinking, fast reactions. F1 drivers speak of having good "mind management" - which is something I've got a LOT to learn from - but there's other aspects of greatness involved that has crossover implications for being a musician. Monet, Renoir - what is the sound of "Garden at Argenteul" or "Woman with Parasol"? I'm still working on that, VERY difficult (I have a number of false starts sitting on different hard drives right now...) Anyhow.... There's interesting things all around in abundance, the trick is thinking about how one can take something useful from it for another application. Of course, the big problem is that if you do do the above - you then have to find musicians that can understand what you're getting at. Which is basically impossible and will tend to drive you to suicidal thoughts. Not to mention, people in general will think you're bonkers if they catch you talking about such "nonsense". Sigh. Have fun. http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/ / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK_dup2 Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 I agree. You must step out of the guitar box to really grow. When I started singing I noticed that my guitar style changed quite a bit. I really had to make room for two. On the instrumental corner I enjoy finding different types of music that you have no idea what the hell is going on or at least are challenged. I am like many other players that have come out of the eighties excess of speed and flash. At some point you have to really get in touch with what drove you to practice all of those hours and put up with all of the frustration that can be the music business. For me I found I really like Blues and Country more than I ever. I now am starting to understand a lot of the feelings and inspiration that would draw me to a particular sound or musician. What the hell was my point again? Oh yeah - There is a big difference between being a guitar player and being a musician that plays guitar. Enjoy music on the many levels it has to offer. Your playing will no doubt be more natural. BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael saulnier Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 Originally posted by semitone: The ideal guy Should combine really good technique.blues feel,tasty note choosing,and good music of course.Any suggestions? How about going back to the basics and understanding why guys like BB King, Muddy Waters, and so on could "say more" with a single note or phrase than many later players could with hundreds of 64th's. If you've accomplished what you wanted by studying the players you listed, you probably already have the muscle memory, dexterity, and musical grounding to play pretty well in the vibe you're looking for. I'd ask myself... can I improve what I'm "saying" with my playing? guitplayer I'm still "guitplayer"! Check out my music if you like... http://www.michaelsaulnier.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semitone Posted January 31, 2001 Author Share Posted January 31, 2001 Well,lots of useful opinions here,and i might say that i actually HAVE stepped out of guitar playing 3 years ago,when i bought my Atari 1040 and a sampler.Maaan,was that a change!It threw my whole world around,and finally led me to work i the biz,but as a freelance jingle producer.I just feel a little "guilty" sometimes,sit down,get my chops together,but it just don't feel the same like it did back then.Must be growing up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK_dup2 Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 Hey Semitone I can relate to what you are saying. I too am a prisoner of advertising. The more money you make the more you feel you are getting away from the guitar and that original fire that made you really love it all those years ago. Will say this though - I have gained an inner satisfaction knowing that I can pay my bills from what I love. That to me has been and still is a huge mountian to climb. I no longer want to be the most known guitarist on the block. I have really started to enjoy the whole process now and am starting to realize my guitar is only one color on my paint brush. The thoughts and feelings of betrayal to the guitar still come, but your right A little maturity goes a long way. Best BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 1, 2001 Share Posted February 1, 2001 Nice Sentiments BK...... I had a word of advice from a player friend of mine some years ago, which has stuck in my memory for years. " Simon, if you wanna be a great player you just gotta learn how to make that baby talk" What he meant was learn from everyone but develop your own style,chords,vibratoetc. It has served me well my entire carrer. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa Posted February 1, 2001 Share Posted February 1, 2001 .My problem is that i can't seem to find a guitar player to use as a "case of studying analysis",the way i've done with the guys mentioned above(and a few others including Satch,SRV,Scott Henderson,Di Meola,Greg Howe,Gary Moore,Vai,Albert Collins,John Scofield,Wes,Eric Johnson).The ideal guy Should combine really good technique.blues feel,tasty note choosing,and good music of course.Any suggestions?[/b] If you're looking for a player who can meet all those guidelines, try listening to Steve Vai or Paul Gilbert. Both guys are extremely versatile players who have roots in the blues. Both have amazing technique and what they play is as equally impressive as how they go about playing it. They're definitely worth checking out, if you're not already familiar with their work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miroslav Posted February 1, 2001 Share Posted February 1, 2001 Originally posted by guitplayer: ...understanding why guys like BB King, Muddy Waters, and so on could "say more" with a single note or phrase than many later players could with hundreds of 64th's... ... can I improve what I'm "saying" with my playing? YES!!! Excellent. In my younger days I use to think you had to play a lot of notes, and quickly, to be considered a good guitar player. But I don't have big, fast fingers, so I just focused on melody, tone and phrasing. You CAN say a lot. This message has been edited by miroslav on 02-01-2001 at 10:56 AM miroslav - miroslavmusic.com "Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 1, 2001 Share Posted February 1, 2001 Originally posted by Miroslav --------------------------------------------------------- In my younger days I use to think you had to play a lot of notes, and quickly, to be considered a good guitar player. But I don't have big, fast fingers, so I just focused on melody, tone and phrasing. You CAN say a lot. --------------------------------------------------------- Hey Miroslav Absolutely 110% with you on that one!! Hit the nail bang on the head!! Melody,more melody, tone, more tone and phrasing.....That is what I have always striven for and what I think makes a guitar player truly great. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK_dup2 Posted February 1, 2001 Share Posted February 1, 2001 Mr. NRG and Gang Yes ---- David Gilmore to me is really Inspirational in that area. That's one Brit who really can drive on the correct side of the road. (Ha Ha Ha) I must say though that Robben Ford is one guy who can really get me into the woodshed. Song for Annie off of the First Blue Line CD now that's a double with extra cheese baby!!!! I think if Einstein wrote an Equation. it would look like this. Time + Experience = Taste But hey its all relative. BK This message has been edited by BK on 02-01-2001 at 02:09 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 2, 2001 Share Posted February 2, 2001 Yo BK Word Up!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murph Posted February 7, 2001 Share Posted February 7, 2001 I just got a louder amp and immediately got better as a guitarist! In all seriousness, when Yngwie, et al were all the rage and I copied them, I though I was a pretty fast player. Then a buddy turned me on to flamenco players. Not only did I have half the chops those guys did, but the music was too infectious to turn off! Then someone else showed me some country licks. You want to talk about ego deflating! Those guys play stuff that would give Yngwie carpal tunnel! The trick is to get the influences from everything around you. Like the art examples: If this building had a soundtrack, what would it be? Where are the key changes on this highway? If a goldfish could sing, what would it sound like? Bill Murphy www.murphonics.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 8, 2001 Share Posted February 8, 2001 Murph Off topic but.... Had a guy in the studio last weekend that sang very like a goldfish, he just had this way of moving his mouth ya know? Can't say it was a great experience but I sure had one hell of a laugh. Tears rolled and I just kinda hid behind the board..... Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP_dup5 Posted February 8, 2001 Share Posted February 8, 2001 hey semi,back in the 80's, I was in a two guitar cover band. We did a little bit of everything and everybody. What I did to break the monotony of two lead players, was to learn the horn leads, piano leads, steel leads, etc., on guitar. it was great. then I started converting horn and piano pieces/chords to the guitar. and that was awesome. we had a sound that the other bands raved about. they couldn't figure out what we were doing different. The best thing about it was that I was excited about playing again and my style was changing. A lot less bending strings, more scales, and riffs not usually associated with guitar. Although , you would be surprised (at least I was) at how many universal riffs there are, that you play on guitar and are also played on other instruments. JP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 8, 2001 Share Posted February 8, 2001 Hey JP Inspiration is a wonderful thang http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Rock On Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP_dup5 Posted February 8, 2001 Share Posted February 8, 2001 Originally posted by nrgmusic@oemdigital.co.uk: Hey JP Inspiration is a wonderful thang http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Rock On Simon Simon,I hafta agree. Although I did chuckle when I read my post. My DR has me back on the anti-depressants, and sometimes I get like a giddy school girl. Oh well, I've been compared to worse. Peace Easy JP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianrost Posted February 15, 2001 Share Posted February 15, 2001 Originally posted by semitone: My problem is that i can't seem to find a guitar player to use as a "case of studuying analysis",the way i've done with the guys mentioned above(and a few others including Satch,SRV,Scott Henderson,Di Meola,Greg Howe,Gary Moore,Vai,Albert Collins,John Scofield,Wes,Eric Johnson).The ideal guy Should combine really good technique.blues feel,tasty note choosing,and good music of course.Any suggestions? You've already learned all Wes has to offer, eh? Good for you http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Tried Kenny Burrell, Joe Pass or Jim Hall? Go beyond the guitar, listen to horns: Charlie Parker, Johnny Hodges (THE man for smooth blues), Sonny Rollins, Miles, Coltrane, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnHHorvath Posted February 17, 2001 Share Posted February 17, 2001 Try Brian Setzer. You'll get yer blues, yer rock, yer jazz, yer classical, yer pop -- everything rolled into one hot tamale! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratman_dup1 Posted February 17, 2001 Share Posted February 17, 2001 Originally posted by murph: I just got a louder amp and immediately got better as a guitarist! HAHAHAHAHA ROTFLMAO!! Love it Murph, and here all this time I thought it was my technique that needs improving!!! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 18, 2001 Share Posted February 18, 2001 Hi, I tell ya, Im a bit younger than you fella's but I too feel at some sort of crossroads. Sometimes I cant help but think "why guitar?". Still as that old zen saying goes 7 times down 8 times up. And it seems when I'm totally bummed out is when I brake through to a new Idea. I started out learning heavy metal songs, then moved on to the oldies...a little hendrix, some david gilmour, albert king. And you know I could play better then my friends and felt like I was the shit. Now I know that there is so much I have yet to learn Every time I listen to some monk, or throw on the album "kind of blue" or listen to some bartok I realise that that I have a LONG ways to go before I can take myself seriously. On a lighter note please DO check out these players- nils cline, joe morris, fred frith, david torn, caspar brotzman, bill frissell;all these cats can KILL, but they all avoid cliche (thankfully) Also dont sleep on the Kenny Burrell or the Jim Hall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricongacharter.net Posted February 18, 2001 Share Posted February 18, 2001 the guy i never hear mentioned on these threads is Chet Atkins, buy everything he ever recorded and youll hear one of the greatest examples of taste, economy, and technique from a guy who crosses every style. if you master his stuff you really are done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrg music Posted February 19, 2001 Share Posted February 19, 2001 Riconga wrote: ====================================================== the guy i never hear mentioned on these threads is Chet Atkins, buy everything he ever recorded and youll hear one of the greatest examples of taste, economy, and technique from a guy who crosses every style. if you master his stuff you really are done! ====================================================== you've got one helluva point there... but there is always one that is forgotten. Thanks for the reminder. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Simon ...remember there is absolutely no point in talking about someone behind their back unless they get to hear about it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK_dup2 Posted February 19, 2001 Share Posted February 19, 2001 You got that right Simon, Every Time I am at the CD shop I forget the music I swore that I would buy when I got there. I think I need Some of those pills Ron Regan is taking. Another name Larry Carlton Cheers boys BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrg music Posted February 19, 2001 Share Posted February 19, 2001 BK Nice ta see ya back man.... Hope all is cool with ya? Where can we get those Reagan Pills from? Hell old age and infirmity is a real bummer!!! I never walk out of a record store with the music I went in there to buy.... Must be contagious or what? Simon http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif ...remember there is absolutely no point in talking about someone behind their back unless they get to hear about it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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