Guest Posted January 12, 2001 Share Posted January 12, 2001 I have been thinking of buying a modeling amp and have tried a cople of diferent Line-6 offerings in the music store. I was pretty impressed with the versitility and some of the amp models but have not had a chance to do a side by side comparison with my old Fender amps ('64 prinston, silver face champ and a '95 blues deluxe. the tweed covered one without the hot rod channel)or to see how they would perform in a live or recording situation. If anyone has been using a digital amp for any length of time I would apreciate some opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael saulnier Posted January 12, 2001 Share Posted January 12, 2001 How about a few questions for you first... Why do you want a "modeling" amp? You seem to have a few nice amps already. Why is it important for you to "compare" a modeling amp with your existing amp(s)? What type of music setting will you be using the amp... recording, live shows, style of music, etc.. Let us know more and I bet the "opinions" will flow! guitplayer I'm still "guitplayer"! Check out my music if you like... http://www.michaelsaulnier.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2001 Share Posted January 12, 2001 I guess I should clarify. I am interested in the modeling amps soley for the aspect of versitility. Yes I do have a few nice amps now, but my Fenders cannot sound like a Vox or Marshal Or Boogie. I have several nice guitars also but one guitar through a certain amp may sound astounding, while another guitar through the same amp might fall short in the goosbump area. The main purpose of a modeling amp would be for home recarding applications for original creations and for live playing ,in small clubs and bars, so i might be able to cover the gamut from from The Beatles to Metallica (yes I am that most looked down upon of creatures the "cover band hobby guitarist"). I have been playing for 15 years and have owned several guitars and amps in that span of time. I guess I'm still searching for that most elusive of holy graisls, the one amp that will do it all. ------------------ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael saulnier Posted January 12, 2001 Share Posted January 12, 2001 I'm one of the people who really likes the POD. There are those who don't, won't, will never, and don't want to hear from anyone that does... That's cool... everyone has a right to their opinion... I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, just to share my feelings and experience. The most common "knock" I hear about the POD is that the live sound (especially clean sound), isn't as "warm" as their amp. I agree. There isn't a modeling device I've heard that LIVE, sounds better than my Fender amps do. Especially the "clean" sounds. However, I think the "recorded" sound of the POD rivals my ability to "record" the live sound of my amp, and since I can do it at any volume, at any time, with the exact same sound I had a previous time, etc... I find it to be a very valuable tool. You said you wanted lots of sounds and it's here that the POD shines. Because you can mix and match the amp models and cab models, you can get a huge number of variations. Many of them sound really good. (Are they "exact" duplicates of the "real" amps... I don't care...) These amp and cab combinations can be further modified by different amp settings to gain, eq, effects, and other parameters. There's a lot to tweek, but there's a lot of sound variety if you try. I've fallen in love with a number of "boutique" amps I currently don't own... For example, the Budda Twinmaster is a great blues or jazz amp, especially combined with a 4x10 cab, the Soldano heads have tremendous "crunch" and "liquid" sustain, and the Matchless is "crispy" set clean and "raunchy" set with a lot of gain... I also like the Marshall and Fender models although I don't find the Fender Twin to be that compelling. You may like a completely different set. I don't care much for the Mesa Overdrive sounds, (too "buzzy" to my ears), and I haven't found a VOX sound that has made me want to keep one in my main setup. Don't make your judgement solely on the presets. It would be like walking up to an amp at a dealer, plugging your guitar into it at whatever settings the last guy used and making your decision about the amp from that... You might get a sound you like, but you'll learn a lot more with some experimentation. It's important to plan to use the MIDI software capability to change, save, import, and otherwise control patches. If you don't, you'll only be using a fraction of the POD's power and probably won't be as happy with the results. Another advantage to using a MIDI connection and software is you can download and use patches developed by other people. For example, AndyZ, (the guy who organized the LA user group), has designed several banks of very nice patches. Check out the "Eric Johnson" ones he has on his website. http://listen.to/andyz. They're well done and of course you can tweek them to your own taste easily. There's hundreds of other user made patches available from Line6's site, as well as a number of other large user sites. It's cool that you can see how other people have dialed in their POD for their tunes and tastes. Line6's website has an active user community and is a good resource to find new patches and get some ideas on how to use your POD. Since you have some nice amps, I suggest going with the POD2 or the POD Pro, rather than their amps. (I would also highly suggest the floorboard). In general, I don't think the amps are bad, and the Flextone II generation has essentially the same features as the POD2, but I'm not as happy with the sound of the solid state amps and speakers they use. Also, they're not as "portable" as the POD is... So... For direct recording I usually like to run the POD into a Art Tube MP, for a little tube warmth, but I've made some recordings straight in that I liked. Live... I have a POD2 and both a Fender HR Deluxe and a Blues Deluxe like you have. I like to use the POD as a pre-amp, and run directly into the "Amp In" on my amp, bypassing the amp's own pre-amp. You get all the POD sound, plus the added "sparkle" of the tube poweramp and speakers in your guitar amp. Try sounds with the POD's "line" and "amp" switches off or on to your taste. At high outputs from the POD, it "pushes" the tube amp nicely, and I get sweet tube amp sustain... and the "good" feedback. Lately, I tried another approach... to build a "wall of sound" ala SRV, Santana, Trower and Eric Johnson... I have a Morley A/B switch, I run my guitar into the input, and send one output to my normal effects and amp setup, and the other straight into the POD and then into my PA. By setting the amp(s) for a clean "blues" sound, and having the POD set for say an overdriven Matchless sound, I get an extremely fat tone that's clean from the amp and "thick 'n fuzzy" from the PA. Or, by setting the POD to a clean TwinMaster sound, and using my FullDrive 2 to overdrive my amp(s) I get the opposite but "different" version of the same idea. Both on clean sounds great and both "overdriven" sounds very thick... Obviously there's a huge number of variations available here... Of course in full band settings, I would mic the amp and send that signal to the PA as well. But in rehearsals, the amp(s) usually are loud enough by themselves. The POD also has a variety of effects available including chorus and echoes and more. (another common "knock" on the POD is the quality of its effects... I agree they're not the highest studio quality... but in many cases they sound fine to me). I get a lot of sound flexibility, because of the A/B switch, I can turn off either the amp sound or the POD sound with the flick of a switch. And, using the floorboard, I can change the POD's sound or even wah the POD while the amps are "unwah'd", a very interesting sound... This has worked so well, that I'm thinking of getting another POD or two down the road... It would be great to have 3 or 4 "amps" each with it's own voice at the touch of a footswitch. Hopefully this gives you a little insight into why I turn my POD on almost every time I get ready to play... Although this kinda sounds like a commercial, I have no affiliation with Line6 at all... I'm just a happy user. Good Luck, ask more questions if you want. guitplayer I'm still "guitplayer"! Check out my music if you like... http://www.michaelsaulnier.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrbreez Posted January 12, 2001 Share Posted January 12, 2001 First of all I have several tube amps that I like, mostly Marshall. When I A/B my amps with Line6 (I have the Asys2 and POD) it is more like comparing 2 Fenders or Marshalls. The sounds are really close. When you try one out put it in MANUAL MODE, dial in the amp model and set the knobs like a regular amp. The factory presets for the most part aren't too good. As far as playing live I always get raves about the sound-clean or distorted. Though when I play real loud I use the POD through the power amp of a Marshall JCM-8OO 5O-watt combo (using the return jack) over using the Asys2. Line6 is a great addition to your rig. You can't beat them for auditions when you don't know the situation. Great for small clubs and other situations where volume is a concern. Great for gigs like top-4O when you need a variety and also recording. I think that the Flextone HD II is the way to go because the stronger the power amp the better--or the POD through a tube power amp. Buddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted January 12, 2001 Share Posted January 12, 2001 Heh... know what you mean about the one amp that will do it all. I have an Ampeg VT-40 and a '65 Fender Pro that, between them, come pretty close. But I did get a POD because I couldn't see any reason not to, if that makes any sense. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Granted they're $300 and I ain't rich, but I found it worth the investment for the reasons you mention: if there's some strange effect or sound that my usual rig can't do, I know I'm covered. And it would probably take a lot more than $300 to buy enough amps and/or stompboxes to cover me on what amounts to a very small percentage of situations where I'd need them. So if you're in a cover band I would say it would be worth it. Also, the POD IS nice for late-night practice sessions or recording, test-driving arrangements and such. When recording, I do end up using my real amps for the "final" takes though, because there really isn't any substitute for a great tube amp if that's your bag. But again, if I need some strange effect or sound on a recording I know I'm covered there too. --Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrbreez Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 I think Fender might be coming out with a modeling amp. Buddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Denike Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 I'm interested in the new amp modeler coming out in february that is supposed to let you 'design' your own amp - you mix the midrange of a Boogie with the top range of a Vox and the cabinet of a Marshall, with the bass of a Pignose. I think it's coming from Digitech. I haven't been into amp models before, but if I can 'virtually' pick everything down to the capacitors and transformers, this'll be the thing for me. One thing, obviously, I don't kow about, is the SOUND. Oh well, youlive a little, you learn a little. We'll see if my expectations are fulfilled. Check back in Feberuary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonemonkeyyahoo.com Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 guitplayer, I agree with you about the POD being the best thing Line 6 has offered to date. Actually, the Bass Pod is my Line 6 tool of choice for a few reasons. First, most bass amps have a solid state gain stage somewhere, IMHO, this gives modeling bass amps a leg up over modeling guitar amps - the models just sound *right* to me, whereas the guitar models all seem to have this solid state "ripper" tone riding on top of everything, which does not sound *right* to my ears. I use the Bass POD exclusively for bass these days. I don't miss lugging around my bass amp at all. The "Tube Preamp" model in the bass Pod is based on the same Alembic bass preamp that David Gilmour uses as the first stage in his humongous rack system. It works great for guitar. It's a very musical model if you add a lot of Drive to it (I'm from the Billy Gibbons "I never play totally clean" school of thought) and don't get too aggressive with the Treble control. All in all, it makes a great interface from my traditional pedal board when I need to go direct with my guitar. Very musical. Finally, a tip for anyone trying to program "clean" guitar sounds, whether it be in the POD or some other device. If you listen carefully to what are considered to be some of the classic "clean" guitar sounds (e.g., Fender blackface clean, Mark Knophler, Clapton "slow hand" era, surf guitar), you should notice that most aren't as CLEAN as you think they are. The single biggest mistake I see people make when programming clean sounds is making them TOO CLEAN - they take your head right off in the mix. Add more grit and mids than you think you need and roll off some Treble (Jerry Donahue of the Hellecasters once wrote a great article in GP about guitar amp settings and how most players scoop the mids and peg the highs making them sound too thin and brittle in the mix. He's dead on about that IMHO). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulirv Posted January 16, 2001 Share Posted January 16, 2001 I like the Line 6 flextone - have had a flextone Plus for about a year now, and I too play in a cover band. It really is excellent, and I am still only scratching the surface of tonal flexibility. I thoroughly encourage purchase of the floorboard controller to get the extra 12 stored presets. This is what I depend on when switching between a jazz-chorus clean style, to a slightly dirty robben-ford style to a gary moore marshall crunch or a clean-but-saturated santana boogie sound. The floor controller is large enough and well designed enough to make it easy even on a dark stage, adn the inclusion of an integrated volume, wah, and tuner is excellent. I understand the comments about the POD, but you can line-out the combos too for recording. Flextone Plus has a second power-amp stage to accommodate an extra cabinet to cope with those larger clubs too, but I find I have not needed that yet. THe regular 60W combo is plenty powerful enough, even with individual program channels knocked back. Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrbreez Posted January 20, 2001 Share Posted January 20, 2001 Fender's modeling amp is called a Cyber-twin. Nice, but expensive ($1699-ouch!) Buddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip McDonald Posted January 21, 2001 Share Posted January 21, 2001 Originally posted by lrbreez: Fender's modeling amp is called a Cyber-twin. Nice, but expensive ($1699-ouch!) Buddy On the planet Algon, the price of 1 single high E string is $34.89... the price of a genuine Fender medium pick if approximately $12.90... a brand new Fender Squier Strat is $6578.22.. a '57 reissue is $23,987.91... Fender.... they're on their own planet. Let's see, I can buy a fake Twin or a real Twin... what should I choose????? Their modeling stuff better be leagues ahead of Line6 at that price; sounds like they're not only trying to pay back for a chip fab but trying to buy the plant that makes it as well. Is it going to have Marshall and Boogie models in it? Isn't that counter-productive? If just Fender sounds.... wouldn't I rather have a Deluxe and Twin reissue? http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/ / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 21, 2001 Share Posted January 21, 2001 ...............POD GOOD............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael saulnier Posted January 22, 2001 Share Posted January 22, 2001 Regarding the Fender "cyber-twin". If you read the marketing fluff, they say they're not trying to "model" their own or other amps with software "models", but they've developed a method to actually "re-wire" the electronics to the configuration of the "modeled" amp. It isn't immediately clear whether this is a chip-based thing, or what... I'm sure the trades will telling us (hyping the hell out of it) more about it in the upcoming months. I am interested in the idea on the surface. If you want a '59 Bassman, you have the actual circuits and eq settings of one... if you want a '65 Deluxe, the circuits change to "make" one. All this ends up in front of a "real amp" rather than a "model sound" so the sonic benefits of real tubes should be there. It's a different approach than the other modeling amps, and it may turn out to have some cool sound capabilities. Personally, I don't care if they "exactly" model their competitors amps, (or even their own), as long as there's a great set of tones available. The proof will be in the playing... The "sound demo's" they have on their website aren't all that impressive to me. (Like many "demo presets" they are heavily effects laden)... But there are a few that sounded pretty cool. Ironically, Fender also just released the '65 Super Reverb reissue, so they've closed a big "hole" in their reissue line, while getting into the "modeling battle" with a new idea. If the cyber-twin turns out to be a joke... then it's probably a new Super Reverb for me... If you play one... let us all know what you think. guitplayer I'm still "guitplayer"! Check out my music if you like... http://www.michaelsaulnier.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip McDonald Posted January 22, 2001 Share Posted January 22, 2001 Originally posted by guitplayer: amps with software "models", but they've developed a method to actually "re-wire" the electronics to the configuration of the "modeled" amp. Hmm. I would think the biggest obstacle to that is handling output transformers - how do you get around multiple different transformer sizes? I can see an array of resistors and caps being reconfigured, and tubes.. hmm. Tone circuits... different tube rectification circuits... making the whole thing work on the fly without stuff making popping noises or things failing from being switched on and off repeatedly... and making it in a box smaller than a 4x12 cabinet that doesn't require a forklift to pickup... I'm very skeptical, unless they fudge a lot with some things like generic rectifier stages and transformers. Of course it woudl obviously be worth $1,700 if it actually did reconfigure itself into different amp circuits, but... I just want a decent sounding tube amp that doesn't way anything, the heck with 6,798 different sounds... http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/ / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrbreez Posted January 22, 2001 Share Posted January 22, 2001 The Super Reverb blew my socks off. I A/Bd it with the Twin reissue they had there. They did a real good job on it. Cyber-twin: I need to try one out at a music store before I makeup my mind. The Tweed Twin sounded good, but the Marshall and Vox sounded lame. Usually for modeling amps (or CAD as Fender calls it) I like to download the manual and study it. That way when I go in the store I can run it through its paces. I remember when I heard the Line6 Asys212 at NAMM a few years ago I was impressed. The Fender demo wasn't as impressive. Buddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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