Dave Bryce Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Okay, so steadyb and I just spent the day setting up my computer for Logic. I'd seen glimpses of it and short demos before, but I'd never really been walked through it. Frankly, I'm amazed. What a cool program! It makes so much sense...the way it's laid out seems as if it'll be very conducive to creating music. I am really looking forward to working with it. I'm kinda curious as to why is there seems to be such a stigma about setting up the Environments...it seemed really easy - maybe it's just that I was lucky enough to have someone show me how it's done. ...and the soft machines just sound superb. I'm the most impressed so far with EVB3 (guess I'm not gonna miss B4 that much) and the ES2. EVP88 is pretty great, too - but I've had the 76 version, so I'm more familiar with that. I'm gonna have a bunch of fun with this bad boy. Yo, b - thanks again for taking the time, my brother... dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Professional Affiliations: Royer Labs • Music Player Network Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phait Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Hmm.. not so Logical to me, but to each their own. I'm pretty pissed that some stuff that came with my big box version is trial only... I didn't really know what I was buying though - I thought $240 for the box was a steal - only to find that's the price it's usually selling at, not just used on ebay (this one wasn't used). Here I thought I'd gotten an awesome deal and saved hundreds. I don't need the Vintage Piano, or the synth that came with it, much less Logic itself I come to find.. Have fun though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dementia13 Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Nothing that came with your Big Box is trial only. There are other instruments, like the ES1 and ES2, which are sold separately but the trial versions are included with Logic. The Box comes with the EXSP and the EVP73. If you try to use the EXS or the EVP88, those are more advanced versions that you would have to pay extra for. The audio plug-ins are not trial only, if you'll open your farging manual you'll see how to use them. Logic's audio capabilities are as powerful as those of anything else you're going to use, but if you don't have enough patience to find out what's there, you're probably not going to find anything that suits your needs. Yeah, Dave, I learned to sequence with their old Notator software, and it spoiled me for all other sequencing programs. You are a little lucky to have had someone show you the Environment- that's an obstacle for a lot of beginners. It's simple when everything goes right- I just tonight found the answer to a problem with my setup that had been dogging me for years (MTP mode with an Opcode interface and no OMS). It's good to be shown that program, anyway, because someone who's really good with it can just fly with it. The things that make it so easy to work with aren't necessarily the first things you look for or see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted November 16, 2003 Author Share Posted November 16, 2003 Originally posted by dementia13: I learned to sequence with their old Notator software, and it spoiled me for all other sequencing programs. I used Notator for a while back when I had my Atari, Sean - perhaps that's one of the reasons why it seems to makes sense to me. My first sequencing program was Dr. T's KCS... Phait, I'm curious - are you bummed at the program itself, or just because full versions of some of the instruments are sold separately and that wasn't clear to you? dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Professional Affiliations: Royer Labs • Music Player Network Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phait Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Hey Dave, sorry I don't mean to semi-derail your thread here, my apologies. In that case I suggest anyone wanting to input on my case with Logic go to the following thread linked further below - but I'll chime in once more as to my dissonance with Logic. I have looked in the manual, and IMO the plugins offered are sparse compared to what I would expect of such a professional program, even their lower tier offering. I do realise the software that came with it is not trial except for the few plugins that are trial. I just wish those trial plugins *weren't* trial. I do not see Logic Audio as a robust sample editor - I feel I got more editing capabilities out of GoldWave, this shareware program on the PC (and keep in mind I'm using a Mac for all my audio so if anyone was going to tell me "then stop whining and go edit on the PC ). So it's a bit of both dave - bummed at the program and that the few things are trial. I don't feel I got my money's worth and this is subjective. As far as what I wish Logic had and why I'm not happy with it, theres a list of GoldWave's effects at this thread: http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=008739 I also see Logic has MIDI capabilities, I knew this buying it... though I am not using MIDI nor do I see myself using it. I bought it for it's reputation, multitrack editing features and what I expected to be - robust audio editing features. Maybe since I have Logic Audio 6, not Silver/Gold/Platinum, it should be expected not to be as robust as the other offerings... but being green to all this, I did not know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dementia13 Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 To be fair here, I have both versions (Logic and Platinum), but my copy of Logic is on the notebook that I'm not running audio on. (It's more of a front-end for Reason). I know there are more plug-ins in Platinum than Logic; so if what's available is scant, I hadn't noticed. They are, however, good quality. Maybe some of the Sample Editor transforms are also absent- that would make a big difference. For basic MIDI, the only features I really miss between the two are lack of markers and some scoring features. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan South Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Originally posted by Phait: Maybe since I have Logic Audio 6, not Silver/Gold/Platinum, it should be expected not to be as robust as the other offerings... but being green to all this, I did not know.If you have Logic 6, it's either Gold, Silver, or Platinum. There's no such thing as "plain" Logic 6. Um, next time maybe you should go to a dealer who can show you things about the program in advance instead of wasting your money on Ebay. When it comes to support, you get what you pay for. Keep in mind that a lot of Hollywood composers who have to write the music for an entire feature film in three weeks swear by Logic. Ditto many of the top producers in Europe and the USA. Ditto many people on this board. The Black Knight always triumphs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan South Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Big Dave! Congrats on your first Logic session. Logic will change your LIFE! It changed MINE!! The Black Knight always triumphs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phait Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Actually, there *is* such a thing as "plain" Logic. It is mentioned on Logic's site simply as "Logic Audio" - and that is what it says on my box. It also has the trial versions of Gold and Platinum. My box does not say Silver on it at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dementia13 Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 The version in the Big Box is Logic Audio, which was previously called "Silver". It lost its precious metal designation a couple of years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan South Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Okay, yeah, Silver doesn't have nearly as many effects, the editors are a bit limited, etc. And $240 is not a bargain; it's just about what you'd pay at a dealer. The Black Knight always triumphs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaGe Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 (So you mean to tell me that you and steadyb spend quality time together? Do you also have like a silent mutual agreement not to talk about basketball?) Nuendo user here. I tried Logic and it didn't seem that logic to me. Nevertheless I am sure my experience with it would have been different if I had been walked through by a power user. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markyboard Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Cool Dave. Welcome to a "Mahnly" sequencer. I went with Logic originaly because of it notation capabilities and its autolink with Sounddiver. The audio is way over kill for my uses these days (I'm rarely using 8 tracks of audio and I'm sure I could far exceed this) . But it sure is reliable (even on a PC). In fact I think emagic screwed up getting this program as far as they did before the apple acq. I have yet to see any compelling reason to switch back to mac. The thing I miss most is the "start recording on MIDI note" which used to work. Have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mú Carvalho Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Helo Dave, I'm curious abot Logic Audio. I also started with Atari, using SMPTE Track program, and then I jumped to Macintosh using the Studio Vision, and now, I'm only working with Pro-Tools, and I feel that midi in Pro-Tools is like a toy if you compare to Vision. Logic seems to be nice (midi and audio edt)?? thanks Mú Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intheether Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Dave: As a long time DP user (IIRC), do you have a preference to one or the other , or is it too soon to tell? I love DP but plan to install either LOGIC or someother vst set up on my laptop. So sick of MAS wrappers slowing everything down... Anyone else use both? * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dementia13 Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 $240 is a pretty good bargain for the Box considering that it includes 3 virtual instruments and a sample CD. Separately, those things would cost a lot more; for instance, the ES1 is $199 separately. And then if you later go from Logic to Gold, or EXSP to EXS, you're paying upgrade instead of full price. It's a good package, though not a spectacular one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steadyb Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Originally posted by astor*: Dave: As a long time DP user (IIRC), do you have a preference to one or the other , or is it too soon to tell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleen Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Glad you're grooving on Logic, dB! Originally posted by astor*: Anyone else use both?Hi Michele! I do use both, although these days, my DP work seems to be just merging audio files in clients projects so I can mix within Logic! If I had to pick one piece of gear (hardware or software) that made the most difference in my production and composition work in the past five years, Logic would be it (the ADAM's might be a close second ). recording/mix guy don gunn.com myspace.com/dongunnmusic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeronyne Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Originally posted by bleen: Glad you're grooving on Logic, dB! Originally posted by astor*: Anyone else use both?Hi Michele! I do use both, although these days, my DP work seems to be just merging audio files in clients projects so I can mix within Logic! Astor, check this out, too: Link I use both almost every day, but there are definitely more issues to deal with on the DP side as of now. "For instance" is not proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted November 16, 2003 Author Share Posted November 16, 2003 Originally posted by astor*: Dave: As a long time DP user (IIRC), do you have a preference to one or the other , or is it too soon to tell?I can already tell that there are things about Logic that I'll prefer over DP. I haven't worked enough with Logic yet to tell the other direction - editing audio is gonna be a big one (probably the biggest). DP is pretty great for that... dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Professional Affiliations: Royer Labs • Music Player Network Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP3 Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 dB, now you need the Logic Control. You think you like Logic now............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markyboard Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 But it sure is reliable (even on a PC). Yikes - did I speak to soon? I've been struggling all day(well in between moments of football) trying to figure out why Logic crashes when I try to delete a small time period on one or several tracks (Functios/snip:Cut time and move by locators). I even erased all tracks, recorede a new sample track and tried adjusting bars/beat etc. The wierd thing is, it works fine on some of my older material. I had to go back 3 or 4 projects before it seemed to be working. I cant figure out any differences. Perhaps the autoload file which I use as a starting point for new songs some how got corrupted a while back and I'm just noticing the problem now. Oh well. This one may remain a mystery as I'm not likely to get much if any support on the PC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superbobus Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 Originally posted by Markyboard: Cool Dave. Welcome to a "Mahnly" sequencer. I went with Logic originaly because of it notation capabilities and its autolink with Sounddiver. The audio is way over kill for my uses these days (I'm rarely using 8 tracks of audio and I'm sure I could far exceed this) . But it sure is reliable (even on a PC). In fact I think emagic screwed up getting this program as far as they did before the apple acq. I have yet to see any compelling reason to switch back to mac. The thing I miss most is the "start recording on MIDI note" which used to work. Have fun.You know what? At first I thought all Logic for Windows users would switch to Mac because this would make a great combo. But of course nobody with lots of legal PC software is switching. Bad marketing move from Apple again? Still dunno. The Logic/Mac combi still makes a great system. In fact I just met the first guy who's wanting to buy a G5, just to keep on track with Logic. So I would say, just try it. It may be a whole new get-to-know experience. And maybe after you've tried it, you'll think different(ly) about the Mac nowadays. http://www.bobwijnen.nl Hipness is not a state of mind, it's a fact of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threshold Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 db, Welcome to the 'fold'. Me, I turned to Logic-Platinum as a solution/replacement for Studio Vision. But I still like Pro Tools better for manipulating audio. My workhorse template setup for now is running Pro Tools in OS9.2.2 taking command of all audio opertations with Logic-Platinum running in the background taking charge of all MIDI operations. There are things about Pro Tools(for example-quick access to adding/duplicating playlists, & etc.) that I've grown a custom to, & refuse to let go of. But at the root of this is the inconsistency I've experienced with MIDI in OSX. I find Logic's MIDI operations to be rock solid using Emagic's AMT processing in OS9.2.2 but sputtery, & unstable in OSX's Core Audio/MIDI(And I have the most up to date Core Audio/MIDI driver installed). And also, I agree with you totilly about the environment principles. Logic is a strong/solid program. The best in my opinion. Threshold. P.S.:My suggestion. Track/Edit (all audio in Pro Tools),(all MIDI in Logic), & then mix everything(MIDI/Audio)in Logic. Oh, & it pays to have a full time Pro Tools/Logic editor to do this but, you'll get the best results. Just my few cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markyboard Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 It may be a whole new get-to-know experience. And maybe after you've tried it, you'll think different(ly) about the Mac nowadays. I interpret this as your opinion that I think negatively about the mac. In fact to me it's just a box just like my Dell PC. Better then what I currently have but not enough so to outlay big bucks at this time. When Logic gets to the point where I feel I can't live without its new features (and no other PC competitors offer something I can live with) then maybe I'll buy a new Mac. Logic 6.x wasn't that different from 5.5 to make me want to switch. I am a huge Sounddiver fan so we'll see where that's going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synthetic Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 Yeah, I'm very satisfied with Logic. All they need is better audio editing (I don't want to open two other windows!) and to bring back Sound Diver for OSX. In other words, bring back my favorite features about Studio Vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intheether Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 Thanks for the feedback! I'm leaning toward keeping my tower at 9.2.2 MAS only (uninstalling all vst plugs.). Then if I went OSX laptop I'd keep that VST exclusive. Just thinking outloud... Steadyb is there a competetive upgrade for LOGIC, or has that long passed? * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleen Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 Originally posted by astor*: Thanks for the feedback! I'm leaning toward keeping my tower at 9.2.2 MAS only (uninstalling all vst plugs.). Then if I went OSX laptop I'd keep that VST exclusive. Just thinking outloud...Are you aware that Logic in OSX is no longer VST-native? You can run VST plug-ins using the VST->AU Adapter , but you would need this in OSX even if you kept using DP. It's a very stable wrapper, though, so I wouldn't worry too much about it. Steadyb is there a competetive upgrade for LOGIC, or has that long passed?I'm not Steadyb, but I play him on TV... Last I checked there was still a comptetive upgrade to Logic Platinum from competing products - the price is $479 at AudioMIDI.com . recording/mix guy don gunn.com myspace.com/dongunnmusic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steadyb Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 $479.95 Yes they are definitely still offered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 Dave, I'm glad to hear you're enjoying Logic. Yes, the environment is the feature that seems to cause people the most problems initially. IMO, basic setup is not explained clearly enough in the manual, but it's really not all THAT hard to set up - Dan South did a great post on getting it set up over on GM's (or was it DF's?) forum several months back - definitely recommended for newbies! Like you, I started out on Notator on an Atari back in 1988... but unlike you, I pretty regularly kept going with the upgrades - hardware and software - for about 14 years... and then they dumped me because I'm a PC owner. Oh well. I understand the logic (pardon the pun) behind consolodating everything to one platform, but it did leave a bit of a bitter taste in my mouth. I'm personally not about to dump thousands of dollars of other perfectly fine (and still supported) PC software just to switch to a Mac so I can run one program (no matter how nice), especially when some of it is not available cross platform... but that's just me. Anyway... how are you digging that new G5? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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