Tedly Nightshade Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 So my mate is giving piano lessons to beginners, and I'm thinking, why not start with the black keys? Then the white keys, and then if you want an accidental, why not add a white note or two to the black keys as soon as you add a black note to the white keys? Why should C# major be a distant confusing place, instead of home sweet home? Yeah, the notation is confusing... that's obviously part of the problem... and it does seem that the basic scale used to start on A, not C, doesn't it? A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM! "There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Fortner Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 Starting? George Winston made a career out of playing like this! Stephen Fortner Principal, Fortner Media Former Editor in Chief, Keyboard Magazine Digital Piano Consultant, Piano Buyer Magazine Industry affiliations: Antares, Arturia, Giles Communications, MS Media, Polyverse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magpel Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 Is there a name for that pentatonic black key knuckle tune? You know the one I'm talking about. Check out the Sweet Clementines CD at bandcamp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magpel Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 Is there a name for that pentatonic black key knuckle tune? You know the one I'm talking about. Check out the Sweet Clementines CD at bandcamp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michiel Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 There's a popular method: "alfreds piano lessons" where you begin with the black keys Michiel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RABid Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 For one thing, there is no full scale on just black keys. I have been thinking a lot about how to start my great nephew with piano lessons. He is three and 1/2 and instinctively knows the C scale and always knows to stop on C if he is just poking the keys. It seems that playing the white keys first is the easiest way to start a child on piano. Robert This post edited for speling. My Sweetwater Gear Exchange Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n Flux Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 plus, its a lot easier playing on the white keys then on the black keys when you are a beginner. if you miss a black you'll hit a note out of scale for sure, but if you miss white key you'll just hit another key in the c scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byrdman Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 Originally posted by n Flux: plus, its a lot easier playing on the white keys then on the black keys when you are a beginner. if you miss a black you'll hit a note out of scale for sure, but if you miss white key you'll just hit another key in the c scale.Like to bet. When I miss a white note I usually miss the piano altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowly Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 The black keys are easy, five keys, five fingers, Parker Lewis can't miss. Kcbass "Let It Be!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botch. Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 Originally posted by Magpel: Is there a name for that pentatonic black key knuckle tune? You know the one I'm talking about.Can't remember the name, but didn't Keyboard interview this old renaissance man who played that tune on the black keys...with an orange? Botch "Eccentric language often is symptomatic of peculiar thinking" - George Will www.puddlestone.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Horne Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 Guys, ... white, black ... what's the difference? There are only 12 keys (well, OK, 14) ... teach concepts ... teach in _every_ key. No guitarists were harmed during the making of this message. In general, harmonic complexity is inversely proportional to the ratio between chording and non-chording instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowly Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 Originally posted by Dave Horne: Guys, ... white, black ... what's the difference? There are only 12 keys (well, OK, 14) ... teach concepts ... teach in _every_ key.No, its not a black/white thing. I'm arranging a song right now using all black keys. Kcbass "Let It Be!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolipsismX Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 I took brief lessons and I was taught with the black keys first. I quit though and had to teach myself in the end. I felt that the white key method was much easier for me though. You can play c major and a minor this way and it's very hard to hit a bad note. Also, it's easier to see intervals in C than in C# where you'd have to use F and C anyway, or in F# where you'd have to use F and B. You can also play a lot of complete songs this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedly Nightshade Posted April 15, 2003 Author Share Posted April 15, 2003 Alfred's, eh? Got to look that up, I've seen it around. Am I the only one who wants to puke when I hear some poor slob practicing major scales? I would feel like such a jerk, making some poor kid do those- they are the antithesis of music, any scale is more musical than that... When in Rome, I guess. When I went to my first piano lesson, I asked to learn a minor scale instead, and went home with one under my fingers, to the bewilderment of my parents. Little did they know what they were in for... A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM! "There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowly Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 does anyone know of a song that all the note C? the C Rumba or something. Kcbass "Let It Be!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petros Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 Try "One Note Samba" in C. The black keys, which spell the Eb minor pentatonic scale (also Gb major pentatonic)is fun because you can improvise without hitting a "wrong note" providing you only play the black keys.By the way the major scales are great and essential! In conclusion, I must say I think this thread is silly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan South Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 Sigh! This is why I'm a fretboard man. No irregular bumps in the key pantheon. Every key fingers uniformly except for open strings (which are amazingly easy to fret). The Black Knight always triumphs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petros Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 But the fret board on a guitar is like a "blind neck", you cannot easily see harmonies, on piano you can easily see the harmonies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedly Nightshade Posted April 15, 2003 Author Share Posted April 15, 2003 Major scales are handy, I use them all the time, mostly in a harmonic way or as the Ionian mode, without the tendency to V I all the time. But of all scale practice done, don't you think major scales take up a tremendously disproportionate amount of space and time? I certainly do. George Russell wrote an interesting treatise about what he called the Lydian Dominant approach to harmony. He made a persuasive case that the Lydian mode is much less static and contains much more implied motion than the major mode. A lot of jazz players have made good use of this approach. I have found my way to harmonic understanding to be a long and painful path, not least because of the major-scale-centric legacy of the dominant school of European practice. Things that are not that tricky and just as compelling as C major have taken me years to discover and get my head around. Whenever I teach someone or contemplate doing so, I always wish I could pass on a much more flexible and useful legacy, with a lot less of the triumphal up-the-empire sound of the major scale. I've been called silly before, and a lot worse. That doesn't change my strong and well-considered feelings on the subject. There's got to be a better way. A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM! "There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marino Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 Originally posted by Botch.: Originally posted by Magpel: Is there a name for that pentatonic black key knuckle tune? You know the one I'm talking about.Can't remember the name, but didn't Keyboard interview this old renaissance man who played that tune on the black keys...with an orange? Okay... -I believe Magpel referred to "Chopsticks" (at least, I think it's so called in the USA - in Italy, it is "Tagliatelle") -The man with the orange was the wonderful Nicholas Slominski, and the piece in question, IIRC, was Chopin's Study op. 10 n.9 in Gb. However, it was just a joke - The original black-key closing scale of that piece is in double octaves. -The piece with one note could be "C Jam Blues" by Duke Ellington. The whole theme is just a repeated Middle C. If, however, you're referring to "One Note Samba", and want to start with the repeated C, you have to play it in F (first chord Am7). -It's certain that Chopin used to start his students with the five fingers on the following notes: E, F#, G#, A, B. This E major pentachord is indeed much easier for a beginner than the "all whites" approach. -For a beginner, I would start on white keys, but not with a "major/ionian" feeling all the time - that is, adding different starting points as soon as possible. Then I would introduce some black key, also very soon. Look at the first book of Bartok's "Mikrokosmos"; it has a very logical progression, and also it describes the hand position before every piece. Always remember that you're teaching a whole system, so the student should be aware of its inner workings as soon as he/she can. Amen. Feeling pedantic tonight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedly Nightshade Posted April 16, 2003 Author Share Posted April 16, 2003 Mikrokosmos. Cool! Will look into that. "-The piece with one note could be "C Jam Blues" by Duke Ellington. The whole theme is just a repeated Middle C." Well, it's a G , G, G, G, C. That's the melody there. Ellington and Bartok, I'm starting to really like this. And very interested by the Chopin approach. That man knew what to do with the rules. A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM! "There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RABid Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 Originally posted by Dan South: Sigh! This is why I'm a fretboard man. No irregular bumps in the key pantheon. Every key fingers uniformly except for open strings (which are amazingly easy to fret). I tried frets. Too often I mash too hard and cause my notes to be a bit sharp. This is not a problem with a piano. It just gets loud. Robert This post edited for speling. My Sweetwater Gear Exchange Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedly Nightshade Posted April 17, 2003 Author Share Posted April 17, 2003 "I tried frets. Too often I mash too hard and cause my notes to be a bit sharp. This is not a problem with a piano. It just gets loud." It is a problem on the clavichord though. I do prefer the piano. A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM! "There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.