casper Posted February 24, 2001 Share Posted February 24, 2001 I have been trying to get an "Aggressive/Fat" lead and pad sound like a distorted guitar but not restricted to guitar only. Kind of like the stuff you hear from groups like Prodigy and NIN. I have a Yamaha AN1X and a Korg 01/wfd. The 01 guitar samples are not any good and the on board distortion is sterile. The Yamaha is new and I am not sure where to start with it. I have even considered experimenting with external distortion pedals. Does anyone have any ideas on this subject? I just need a step in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steadyb Posted February 24, 2001 Share Posted February 24, 2001 An Andromeda, with its built in analog distortion, and real analog oscillators/filters will give you as Aggressive and Fat a sound as you can handle. steadyb yeah, I work for Alesis, but this really is as unbiased observation, just ask Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbrock1san.rr.com Posted February 24, 2001 Share Posted February 24, 2001 I use a Sansamp PSA-1 for distorted sounds, and I remember reading in Keyboard magazine a couple of times that NIN was using that in the studio too(among other devices) It's an amazing tool for going anywhere from clean to over-the-top distorted like a real tube amplifier. Distortion and overdrive pedals can sound too fuzzy and really destroy the character of samples. I use an 01/W also. The Line 6 Pod, Johnson J-Station, and Sansamps (amp modelers) are really great effects processors for keyboards and drum machines. Snare drums samples, organ sounds, clav, lead sounds, bass, and all kinds of sounds can work through these devices. I also use the Bass Pod and it works for many sounds too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tusker Posted February 24, 2001 Share Posted February 24, 2001 I have an An1x. The onboard distortion and amp simulation is as good as any digital distortion on a synth. The trouble is that when your volume goes up, things break up in a pretty unmusical way (like most digital distortions). So this is best used for monophonic leads as a little flavoring. The An1x also has feedback parameter which is better, it provides some subtle warmth, until you crank it and then it gives you the typical motorboat effect. I use this a lot. The AN1x community has a number of patches which use the distortion and amp simulation effects (from TB303's to Jan Hammer leads). You might check thouse patches out. The link is: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AN1x-list Despite these An1x features, I am also looking for a "truer" distortion and am considering a tube device of some sort. Cheers, Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted February 24, 2001 Share Posted February 24, 2001 Originally posted by casper: I have even considered experimenting with external distortion pedals. That's the way that I do it. I own a Proco Rat footpedal, which is a screaming little distortion box, and didn't cost much at all. I got me one of them POD thingies as well, but you don't need to spend that kind of $$$ - a plain ol' distortion box will do the job juuuuuust fine. dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Professional Affiliations: Royer Labs • Music Player Network Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted February 24, 2001 Share Posted February 24, 2001 Originally posted by steadyb: An Andromeda, with its built in analog distortion, and real analog oscillators/filters will give you as Aggressive and Fat a sound as you can handle. Andromeda's distortion circuit is very much based on the Proco Rat footpedal that I spoke of in my post above. dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Professional Affiliations: Royer Labs • Music Player Network Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve44 Posted February 24, 2001 Share Posted February 24, 2001 The Korg O1/W has a very cool type of distortion on it that you won't find nearly anywhere else - the only place I've seen it so far is Kyma . It's called "Waveshaping" and it's implemented in the patch parameters pages, I think page 2 or 3, but I can't be certain (I haven't used one in years). Unfortunately, there are very few factory patches that actually use it. I think I remember going through the entire patch list looking for some and only found on e or two. So it's not easy to figure out what it does exactly, and to be honest I can't give a very good explanation either. I believe that it is a type of filtering effect, in which the waveform is "shaped" so that different overtones and often unrelated harmonics are added to the sound. It can make some drastic tonal changes but is a bit less straightforward to control than regular distortion where you getmore when it gets louder. In Kyma, they call it "distortion synthesis" and it makes some amazing sounds, but it's still perplexing to me what's going on exactly. Try fiddling around with it - while it may keep your scratching your head, there are tons of things it can do. I think it has like 30 or 40 different waveshaper types, and they all make for some really mean distortion, but in a very un-guitar sort of way, which I think is what you're after so it should be cool. Good luck - I hope you can get this parameter to do something for you. If I learn more about it in Kyma maybe I'll post in this thread again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murph Posted February 25, 2001 Share Posted February 25, 2001 My suggestion is to stay away from the guitar sounds. It's really painful to listen to an ok guitar sound and then put distortion on top of it --- not even close! Try other instruments for the NIN effect: a glockenspiel or zither through a Marshall stack? Now you're talking cruel and unusual! Bill Murphy www.murphonics.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham English Posted February 25, 2001 Share Posted February 25, 2001 All of my friends rave about the Pod. I'm thinking about getting one for my rig. But I know cats who use the Rat too. Probably alot cheaper than the Pod. I think Medeski uses a Rat on his Clav. ++ Graham English ++ Ear Training, Songwriting Tips, and Music Theory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeon Posted February 25, 2001 Share Posted February 25, 2001 Both the Access Virus b and the Clavia Nord Modular feature waveshaping. Needless to say, the Virus excels at raunch...the number and variety of gritty, overdriven, breaking-up, lo-fi, tweezed, distorted, and squealing tones it can make are legion. And although the character is different, the Nord Mod can also create some pleasing/grating fuzz, distortion, and ripping-tones. They also work well as dirt processors for other devices since each has audio in. I also know the Waldorf MicroWave II(XT) has an excellent waveshaper, but I do not own one of those. I hope to see that filter algorithm ported to my Q Rack though! Referring to the original poster, I know the Yamaha AN1x can make some meaty and wack lead and power sounds based on what a friend of mine has done with his. Make sure to explore what kinds of balls you can get out of the AN1x's osc sync and filter before you explore using the effects sections' insertion block, which has overdrive, distortion, and amp sim. modules. I know NIN has used Line6's Amp Farm for ProTools TDM for a lot of processing. Make use of that or the POD to explore some of those tones. Lastly, why not plug into a nice valve amp, mic it up, and shred? I am quite sure I am sterile from playing my Waldorf Pulse through a Orange head and cab. Go tell someone you love that you love them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve44 Posted February 25, 2001 Share Posted February 25, 2001 aeon- Thanks for the info on the Nord and the Virus, but can you give a good explanation about what Waveshaping really is? I would really appreciate it. -Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marino Posted February 25, 2001 Share Posted February 25, 2001 No time right now to explain waweshaping, sorry... Just a quick note: With the Kurzweil, you can waweshape to your heart's content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murky Bog Demigod Posted February 25, 2001 Share Posted February 25, 2001 I like my Interstellar Overdrive for this too, it's biased for low freq, so it's fat as hell. If anything, you have to watch out for things getting muddy. But really, I love how Line6's stuff sounds. That'd be a best case senerio solution. But Dave Bryce is right, just any guitar pedal will get you there. Go to a pawn shop and try some out. You can go home with 2 or 3 for $100. Give your feet something to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeon Posted February 26, 2001 Share Posted February 26, 2001 Basically, the waveshaping process takes a given set of input values, transforms them according to a function, and then spits them out. Imagine a X-Y graph where the X-axis is the input value and the Y-axis is the output...then imagine an S-shaped function curve so values are biased at the highs and lows to be higher and lower. (if I had my webpage set up, I would link a graphic to illustrate, but anyway...) In the case of a sine wave, such a function would transform the sinus into a waveform closer to a squarewave, hence adding harmonics beyond the original fundamental. With the right waveshaper you can add harmonics similar to that of an overdriven valve or transistor, giving you lovely overtones, drive, and fuzz. The benefits of using this method are good sound, flexible control, and low computational overhead in a digital system. Of course, with the proper function curve a waveshaper can also be used as a lowpass filter, harmonic exciter, or timbral mangler. If you really want to get good tube tone it is best to add a DC offset to the original waveform before entering the waveshaper. This way the clipping will be asymmetric, and it sounds harmonically better to me. Of course, you need to remove the offset after the processing, so use of a highpass filter is indicated. I like this signal path. dc offset + signal --> waveshaper --> highpass filter --> lowpass filter w/Q That way you get rich asymmetric clipping with the smear and rip of a good lowpass filter. The other way I have used waveshaping to great effect is implementing it during the attack transient of a sound. By doing so you can introduce a burst of harmonic instability that is so characteristic of many acoustic instruments thereby giving a rich timbral character to what would otherwise be a more simple electronic sound. In particular, using a touch of quantization with the shaper can make for a good gritty scrape that has allowed me to realize my perfect overdriven electric violin. By reading my own post I can see just how my Nord Modular has changed my whole approach to synthesis. Thank you Clavia! Go tell someone you love that you love them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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