Wiggum Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 Hey all, The last of the K2500X's are passing through stores, and I'm thinking about buying. I currently use a Korg Wavestation and a Roland D20, as well as numerous VST instruments. I'm a bit concerned that the K2500 is overly deep, and that I won't have the time or resources to harness the real power. Admittedly, I never had the patience to fully exploit the Wavestation. I use an external editor, and I understand all of the parameters, but the patches are comprised of so many smaller sounds that programming can take an inordinate amount of time. Any thoughts? Is the Kurzweil fairly intuitive? Wiggum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marino Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 I've used a loaded K2000 (basically the same instrument than the 2500, except for polyphony and KDFX) as the center of my studio for eight years, and I own two Wavestation. Here's my opinion: I think the Kurz has a very logical and intuitive OS; the Wavestation, with its multiple hierarchical menus, is much more cumbersome to me (I've programmed thousands of sounds on both machines). The Kurz can be a bit intimidating because of the sheer number of possibilities (the various DSPs, modulation routings, etc.) but it's not hard to grasp. The only things that I've found to be really complex are the FUNs (mathematical function to modify any kind of input), but you don't need to learn them right away in order to program your sounds. And if you don't feel like programming, there are millions of sounds and samples for the Kurz, both commercial and free. Bottom line: The Kurz takes a bit of patience, but it's totally worth it. my 1 cent marino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dansouth Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 Kurzweils have one of the easiest interfaces, in my opinion. You only have to go as deep as you want. In program mode, they play on all 16 channels at once, so you don't have to switch to a different MULTI or PERFORMANCE mode for multi-timbral operation. VAST isn't difficult to work with. Work through the tutorial, and you'll be a VAST programmer in thirty minutes - albeit a green one. The only thing I find frustrating about Kurzweil is KDFX. It sounds good, but it's not easy to get a grasp of the routing structure. I have to draw pictures on paper every time I use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callengowanco.com Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 You can't go wrong with a kurzweil, its really laid out they way a keyboard should be. The drawbars can be used to control the level of layers or adjust edit parameters realtime. I think you will find yourself wizzing around in no time. I already had an Emu Esynth sampler, so I just got the Kurz PC2X, which is basically a 2500 without the sampler, with a new rom, its 24bit, with 24bit digital outs, and more controller features options. Either way you go, if you get a kurz you'll be happy!!!@!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggum Posted January 30, 2001 Author Share Posted January 30, 2001 Hey all, Thanks for the posts... Sadly, I don't think the K2500X is going to happen. I'm not quite ready to act (the tax man cometh soon), and by the time I am ready, they will be gone. I really wanted the K2500X ($1,900), but I have only been able to find K2500XS's ($2,400). Sure, it's a sampler, but I would prefer to forgo the inputs and buy some RAM instead. I plan to get a software sampler down the road, so this isn't a big deal to me. I haven't found much in the way of free sounds. I've found a ton of sample CD's, but they're expensive. Which also makes me wonder if I really CAN afford a K2500. The keyboard is only $2,400, but when you consider an external hard drive, an external CD-ROM drive, additional RAM, and the piano soundblock, it is no longer a $2,400 instrument. KDFX doesn't interest me. It makes the programs sound much better in the store, but I could get a slew of VST plug-ins for $700 (and actually be able to program them). I think it's a fine option for pros, but certainly out of my league. Callen: You made a very interesting point. I too have considered the PC2X, but I have always dismissed it as another digital piano. Don't get me wrong...I really want a strong piano, but I also want an instrument with powerful filters and envelopes. I thought the PC2X had non-resonant filters, but someone from Kurzweil recently corrected me. So, how good is the programmability on the PC2X? Are you able to come up with unique sounds, or just subtle variations of the factory programs? I have pleaded with Kurzweil to release a stripped down version of the K2600X (basically the synth engine with 88 weighted keys), but they have assured me that it won't happen. I really wish they had put eight faders on the PC2X, as well as a bigger LCD. Sigh.... All the best, Wiggum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Martin Posted January 30, 2001 Share Posted January 30, 2001 Wiggum, Have you looked a the Kurzweil website? There are THOUSANDS of sounds there. What about www.sonikmatter.com? Its one of the best resources on the internet for Kurzweil information, they have plenty of free sounds there too! The fact is that you'll find more FREE sounds available on the internet for a K2500 than any other instrument that I know of. Don't forget it will read .wav, .aif, Ensoniq, Roland and Akai too. ------------------ Mike Martin Kurzrep@aol.com Kurzweil Music Systems www.kurzweilconnection.com -Mike Martin Casio Mike Martin Photography Instagram Facebook The Big Picture Photography Forum on Music Player Network The opinions I post here are my own and do not represent the company I work for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callengowanco.com Posted January 30, 2001 Share Posted January 30, 2001 Wiggum, I don't get high on my own supply, I studied hard and long, and I was sure I would end up with either a 2500/2600 or a triton. It was only by a stroke of luck that I choose to take a chance on the PC2X. I was quite surprised to discover that this beast is far from just a controller or piano simulator. Its has all the basic wave forms from sine to square, resonant filters, syncable LFO's, and plenty of rom available (256 empty presets) to store your new creations. In addition it has sampled partials which allow you to add acoustic inflections to otherwise synthesized sounds. When I realized how powerful a synth this instrument actually was, I was totally bewildered as to why they didn't add a floppy disk drive to this mother. I've only had it for about 60 days and I've created so many awesome presets that I am running out of presets and theres no way to offload them since there is no floppy drive. If you can deal with that crippling blow, this is by far the best sounding keyboard kurzweil has on the market!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callengowanco.com Posted January 30, 2001 Share Posted January 30, 2001 Wiggum, I don't get high on my own supply, I studied hard and long, and I was sure I would end up with either a 2500/2600 or a triton. It was only by a stroke of luck that I choose to take a chance on the PC2X. I was quite surprised to discover that this beast is far from just a controller or piano simulator. Its has all the basic wave forms from sine to square, resonant filters, syncable LFO's, and plenty of rom available (256 empty presets) to store your new creations. In addition it has sampled partials which allow you to add acoustic inflections to otherwise synthesized sounds. When I realized how powerful a synth this instrument actually was, I was totally bewildered as to why they didn't add a floppy disk drive to this mother. I've only had it for about 60 days and I've created so many awesome presets that I am running out of presets and theres no way to offload them since there is no floppy drive. If you can deal with that crippling blow, this is by far the best sounding keyboard kurzweil has on the market!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 Good to hear the feedback on the pc2. I own a pc88mx and I'm planning to check out the pc2r soon. I thought the programability was more limited. Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 Callen, If you need a floppy and don't want to have a computer around, check out the Kawai Q80exe. In addition to it being the best priced hardware sequencer around, it's also got a SysEx librarian mode. It's only about $350 and could be very useful. On the main issue, I am getting very Kurzweil itchy. My school got a stripped down 2500r and I am feeling like I may be missing out on the closeouts of the 2500's. I've been thinking that I'm willing to drain the bank account for one, maybe just a 76 key.. but it looks like I'm going to get little things first - a Filter Bank, an Electribe S, a midi knob controller of some kind (Doepfer's Pocketconroller is looking good) and forgo the depth of the Kurzweil. I may regret it down the line, but it seems right to avoid the Kurzweil behemoth because it may be its own *Money Pit*, urging me to buy many Sample CD's and options and such. Even worse it may suck me into its world so completely that I forget that I love (and need to spend more time with) the piano. So I'm guessing no K2500 for me... http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/frown.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callengowanco.com Posted February 2, 2001 Share Posted February 2, 2001 Steve, Thanks for the advice on the sequencer, I'm going to check ebay for that beast. And I wouldnt worry about missing out on the K2500, because they will getting even cheaper. A close credible friend has told me that kurz is already working on the replacement for the K2600 and that it should hit the market late next year. He said that the PC2X was kinda a test splash for their future plans,an opprotunity for them to work out all the bugs in a 24bit signal path using new boards and design architecture and make some money in the process without competing with their current lines. So they will only get cheaper. I'm glad I didnt dish out the $7K for a 2600 like alot of my friends did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Ventura Posted February 2, 2001 Share Posted February 2, 2001 Bah. I don't like kurzs. I feel they're stuck in the early '90's. Max Ventura, Italy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Martin Posted February 2, 2001 Share Posted February 2, 2001 Callen, I REALLY appreciate your enthusiasm about the PC2 as I am in love with this instrument too. However I must clear up some inaccuracies about the K2600 series. First of all Kurzweil isn't the type of company to introduce products every year. The K2600 is really in its infancy. Version 2 software just came out a couple months ago and its just really beginning to shine. As far as the design of the PC2 versus the K2600, there is much in common between the two. In fact these changes in production, board design, effects, signal path...etc, are many of the reasons we now have a K2600 instead of a K2500. You're right that the PC2 is in some ways superior to the K2600, as the K2600 is still sharing a few things in common with the K2500 series. The PC2 on the other hand was designed from the ground up, which includes all those new samples. For your friends that own K2600's, most of the sounds that are available on the PC2 will soon be available for the K2600 on ROM expansion boards. Just wait to you hear those samples on a K2600 if you thought your PC2 sounded good. I'm not going to deny that we're working on new products. Of course we are... including some non-keyboard products like the KSP8, but the K2600 is still young and still has quite a life ahead of itself. ------------------ Mike Martin Kurzrep@aol.com Kurzweil Music Systems www.kurzweilconnection.com -Mike Martin Casio Mike Martin Photography Instagram Facebook The Big Picture Photography Forum on Music Player Network The opinions I post here are my own and do not represent the company I work for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callengowanco.com Posted February 2, 2001 Share Posted February 2, 2001 Mike, I'm glad to hear your perspective on the k2600 and I will pass this info on to my friends. They are in a panic, I am also happy to here of you commitment to your products and the ease with which we can have meaning dialogue with a representative of the company. I wish Yamaha would emulate some of your practices. Its funny, I haven't had the PC2X, very long, but every time I sit down to play the thing it sounds better. I just can't believe it. To answer your questions from the sonik post concerning the clicking sound I'm experiencing, I still have version 1.00 installed, and I purchased the unit on ebay, used, from a private party. Thanks for your assistance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Martin Posted February 2, 2001 Share Posted February 2, 2001 Callen, Get the OS update installed for your PC2. Not only are the existing sounds improved, but there are 128 additonal presets and other OS improvements! Tell your friend with K2600's to download the lastest OS update version 2.2 if they haven't already done so. Some major changes to KDFX...many new effects algorithms, plus alot of control over effects routing and chaining. ------------------ Mike Martin Kurzrep@aol.com Kurzweil Music Systems www.kurzweilconnection.com This message has been edited by Mike Martin on 02-02-2001 at 11:11 AM -Mike Martin Casio Mike Martin Photography Instagram Facebook The Big Picture Photography Forum on Music Player Network The opinions I post here are my own and do not represent the company I work for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted February 2, 2001 Share Posted February 2, 2001 I just want to take a moment to extend a note of commendation and thanks to Mr. Martin for making himself available as a resource. It is always inspiring to see that a manufacturer's representative cares enough to take the time to do this - especially when you consider that it's not part of his job description, and he does so on his own time. It is greatly appreciated. Thanks, Mike. dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Professional Affiliations: Royer Labs • Music Player Network Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve44 Posted February 2, 2001 Share Posted February 2, 2001 Ditto! I was hoping Mike would show up and answer to callen's initial claim. Thanks for the info from the source! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murph Posted February 5, 2001 Share Posted February 5, 2001 Don't forget to check out Mike's site as well ( www.kurzweilconnection.com ). He's got tips, downloads, links... you name it! If you're a Kurzweil owner, you owe it to yourself! And he didn't even pay me to say that! Bill Murphy www.murphonics.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dansouth Posted February 6, 2001 Share Posted February 6, 2001 If you own a K2000, K2500, or K2600 - or are thinking about buying one - do yourself a BIG favor and pick up a copy of Sweetwater's Total Stereo Session Drums sample CD-ROM. It is the best sample CD that I have ever purchased - by a large margin. I use it weekly, and you will, too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 14, 2001 Share Posted March 14, 2001 I deciding on the K2600, Roland 5080, or Korg Triton. Despite the pros and cons of eachproduct, I see only one company representative posting here and on other forums and I think that says a lot for that individual. I appreciate Kurzweil's Mike Martin taking the time and energy: it is comforting and valuable to a MIDI/synth retard newbie such as myself. It certainly is swaying me to wait a little bit and then lay out the extra $ for a Kurzweil K2600S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve44 Posted March 14, 2001 Share Posted March 14, 2001 Jim, There is a thread a couple pages back regarding the Triton versus the K2500. Check it out, there's a lot of useful information there. While it's true that we don't have any Korg Tech's posting here, the Triton versus Kurzweil battleground brought up a lot of very interesting points. As for the Roland 5080, be aware that it is sample playback only, it cannot produce its own samples. It's probably the most powerful of the three (mostly in terms of number of effects and polyphony count) and certainly sounds great. The Roland sound library is highly acclaimed, and you will find Roland S760 samplers in nearly every studio around, mostly those that do orchestral work. I think Hans Zimmer has 28 of 'em. So the 5080 is a good choice because of the Roland native format compatibility, and because of the Rom expandability. But it's not a keyboard, and it's not a sequencer either, so it won't cover all the bases that the Kurzweil or Triton will. I think that the most tangible difference between the K25/2600 and the Triton is the quality of the sampling section. The Kurzweil is way more powerful than the Korg, and has a huge sample library. The Korg's sampling capabilities is geared towards groove based music, not instrument emulations. It can do a fair amount of stuff, but it's just not nearly as flexible as the Kurzweil, and it's not nearly as compatible with a large and high quality library of sounds as the Kurzweil is. But they're both killer synths. Good luck on your choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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