Korg "Triton ProX" vs Kurzweil "2500XS"

[vsolichotmail.com]

If you have a chance to choose between Korg Triton ProX and Kurzweil 2500XS what would you choose and why?

 

Thanks!

[dansouth]

Well, I have neither, but I may have some insights, because I have a Triton, a Triton Rack, a K2000S, and K2500R.

 

I think the Kurzweil is better as a controller. It's always in 16-channel mode (the Triton addresses 16 channels in Sequence mode). The Kurzweils have a soft button dedicated to switching octaves, and you can go up or down several octaves. You have to open the Global menu to change this on the Triton, and it's only +/- one octave. This will be less of an issue on an 88-key model, but it's still annoying.

 

VAST is more flexible than the Triton programming architecture - and it's not as hard to use as you might imagine - but the Triton is still a VERY programmable synthesizer. I think the Triton's effects sound better than KDFX, and it's a whole lot easier to use. The Triton also features 32M of waveform ROM; the Kuwzweils have only 8M. I like the Kurzweil's sound in general, but using them side by side, I prefer the Triton in most cases. The Kurzweil is supported by a much larger native sample library at this time.

 

The onboard sequencers are about equal. The Triton's dual polyphonic arpeggiators are awesome. I've never seen anything like them. The Triton and K2500 are similar in their expansion capabilities (i.e. adding waveform ROM) but the Triton Rack blows them away.

 

An important issue for performance is how the keyboard feels to you, so please check them both out thoroughly. Hope this helps.

 

This message has been edited by dansouth@yahoo.com on 01-11-2001 at 01:08 AM

[eris23007hotmail.com]

Neither of you have mentioned the K2600 or K2600R? Has anybody used one and seen the differences? It's possible that Kurzweil has addressed some of these issues...

[Steven Denike]

Why does half the equipment in the catalog have an 'X' or a 'Z' in it's name?

 

Are they 'x'ing out something naughty?

 

These aren't cars, they must have some meaning!

[eris23007hotmail.com]

Originally posted by Steven Denike:

Why does half the equipment in the catalog have an 'X' or a 'Z' in it's name?

 

Are they 'x'ing out something naughty?

 

These aren't cars, they must have some meaning!

 

I think "X" usually signifies eXpanded memory or a an eXpansion board.

 

http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

Jake

 

This message has been edited by eris23007@hotmail.com on 01-10-2001 at 07:03 PM

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by eris23007@hotmail.com:

I think "X" usually signifies eXpanded memory or an eXpansion board

 

I don't think so...

 

I believe that the X signifies that it is an 88 key unit.

 

If I remember correctly, this was the way that it broke down:

K2500 - 76 key synth

K2500x - 88 key synth

K2500r- rack mount unit

Adding an "s" means the unit has the sampling option already installed.

 

I think that Korg uses the "x" to specify an 88 key synth as well:

Triton = 61 keys

Triton Pro = 76 keys

Triton ProX = 88 keys.

 

Also, unless something has changed since my days with Kurzweil, a "z" indicates a refurbished "B-stock" item.

 

dB

[Steven Denike]

Thanks.

[dansouth]

Originally posted by eris23007@hotmail.com:

Neither of you have mentioned the K2600 or K2600R? Has anybody used one and seen the differences? It's possible that Kurzweil has addressed some of these issues...

 

According to the reviews that I've read, the K2600 has the same 8M waveform ROM as the K2500, and even the same as the K2000 from 1991. From my point of view, this is the K2600's greatest limiting feature. That much money should buy you a TON of great waveforms.

[marino]

I'd say that the Kurzweil has a much more complete sampling section in terms of editing etc., and it's also more supported in terms of soundware.

The only thing against the Kurz, IMO, is the original effects. But it can be expanded with KDFX (standard on the 2600), easily the best effects board on a synth. The arpeggiator on the K2500/2600 is also amazing.

 

marino

[Mike Martin]

Just to clarify, the K2600 actually comes with 12MB of on board waveforms, not 8MB like the K2500 series.

 

Here is a comparison of the K2500 and K2600:

http://www.kurzweilmusicsystems.com/html/k2500_k2600_comparison.html

 

Here is some information on Triple Modular Processing which is only available on the K2600 series:

http://www.kurzweilmusicsystems.com/html/k2500_k2600_comparison.html

 

 

 

------------------

Mike Martin

Kurzrep@aol.com

Kurzweil Music Systems

www.kurzweilconnection.com

[dansouth]

Mike, thanks kindly for the info and the links, but the piano waves from the K2500 daughter board comprise the extra 4M. Which means, to paraphrase George Bush, the Elder, "No new waveforms!" Don't get me wrong; I hold the original Kurzweil ROM in high regard. The waveforms have a "live," uncompressed feel to them that makes other synths sound two-dimensional. But, man, even with 12M, you're still 20M shy of a Triton. Please ask R&D to hurry with those new sound blocks.

 

Otherwise, I'm sure the K2600 is awesome. The Triple mode opens up a lot of programming capabilities, as does the vocoder. It's great that KDFX is part of the base price, now, and that options are user installable. These boards make great controllers, much better than the Triton, IMHO. And I've heard that the K2600 manual is much improved. Kurzweils are also very good at analog emulation, better than any other sample playback synth (again, IMHO).

[Guest]

Some like blondes, some like brunettes.....

It's all about personal chemistry. Ya just gotst ta go out n take em'for a ride. Personally, I never cared for alot of the Kurz sounds, especially the string patches, yet they sound great when recorded. Just don't like em live. The Triton has that optional scuzzie port that enables you to read Akai, and wav samples which pretty much makes every sound in the galaxy available to you. I don't have the port for mine yet. There is so much this synth does out of the box that it will take me years to explore it as is. It is so inspiring that I can't stop playing it long enough to get very far technically with it. She's a fine lady and a welcome addtion to my harem. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by b3wiz@hotmail.com:

The Triton has that optional scuzzie port that enables you to read Akai, and wav samples which pretty much makes every sound in the galaxy available to you.

 

The Kurzweil stuff can read Akai and .wav files as well, and can read .aiff, Ensoniq and Roland libraries to boot.

 

I agree that you've gotta go play them both. When you do, trust your instincts - see if you connect with one of them. If you do, buy that one. It's a safe bet that you can't really go wrong with either instrument. They're both really great pieces of gear.

 

Or, you could buy a used K2000 and a Triton rack...

 

http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

dB

[Guest]

I came up with that same question when I was recently shopping for a new synth. ProX vs used 2500 (was not considering the 2600, those extra bucks), and ended up buying Triton. Here are some afterthoughts (and stuff that hasn't been mentioned):

Stuff you get with triton: bigger display, the MOSS synth option which is awesome, way larger ROM,FX and ARPs, better key action IMO, great looks, bigger polyphony.

Stuff you don't get with Korg: tech support, good manuals, larger ribbon, resampling, greater format compatibility.

But the one I really envy is the Triton rack; all those expansion slots! sigh...

[dansouth]

Originally posted by memonky@hotmail.com:

But the one I really envy is the Triton rack; all those expansion slots! sigh...

 

The Rack rocks! No touchscreen, though. Ya gotta use the buttons. Also, the Rack has a line lump power supply. I normally refuse to sit in the same room with line lump gear, but I've made an exception for the Triton Rack. It's so cool, I don't even care about the lump!

[DBENNVAhotmail.com]

Jhyeahya Peeps,

 

I agree. The Triton Rack is "Straight Gangsta". We've got one, & the drums are on

"Fire". We doon' got dos' cards yet. But, soon my man, soon.

 

"Motion Direct" C/O

DBENNVA@hotmail.com

[murph]

If you're a live player, you gotta like the 'Quick Access' mode on the Kurzweils. I don't have either a K25/2600 or a Triton, but I do have a K2VX and a Trinity, and it's a ton easier to get from one sound to another in a flash on the K2VX... soundwise, it depends on what I'm looking for, and I may even switch from one board to another in the middle of a song for a different type of the same sound.

[Guest]

I've been eyeing this thread for a little while, and needed to come up with some free time before I decided to reply. I apologize in advance that this is a rather long-winded post, but as I am well acquainted with these two synths, I hope you'll find the information useful.

 

I think it's a great comparison to look at the 2500XS against the Triton instead of the 2600 since there are many great deals out there now on the older model, atlhough you would have to install the KDFX option on the 2500. Both keyboards are excellent music making machines, both have really great features to their credit, but there are many reasons why I would rather spend the money on a Kurzweil. But first let me tell you what I do like about the Triton.

 

The Triton is the first Korg synth I've ever really liked, and the main reason is because of the raw waveforms. They might claim it's because it uses 32 megs of 48khz samples, but I think it's just that it's the first time Korg got the initial sampling phase of creating a keyboard's sounds down right. Doing multisamples is never easy, whether it's a 4meg, 8meg, or 32meg set. It is not simply the fact that the triton uses a lot of ROM for their waveforms that makes them good, but instead that they got the multisamples sampled, looped, and voiced properly. The individual instrument sounds no longer exhibit the twanginess of previous Korg synths, and the have much more uniformity across registers.

 

The other thing that Korg got right in the Triton is the sequencing section: it finally makes sense to those who come from a computer-based model. Their pattern mode is vastly improved upon, and moving from combinations with arpeggiators to a sequence is finally easy to do. The effects in the Triton are also quite nice, especially since they are well implemented in several effects blocks.

 

However, the Kurzweil is without a doubt a much more flexible instrument. Let's start with the waveforms, since this has become quite an issue in this thread. First off all, the sounds are great. They always have been, and that's what put Kurzweil on top in the first place: their sounds are and have been well sampled and well programmed from the beginning. As far as the 2600 using the same sounds as the 2500, they are the same waveforms, but not the same patches. The patches have been programmed extremely well and do sound new and exciting in comparison to the 2500.

 

Part of this is due to the complexity of programming that goes into each Kurzweil patch. It's not just the sample, the EG's, the filters and the effects, but a whole suite of programming tools which Kurzweil calls V.A.S.T. There are FUNction generators, multiple layers within each program, and in the 2600 a new "triple mode" algorithm. The possibilities for each patch are incredibly deep. The new KDFX board also gives really great quality effects with real-world display values for all parameters. These effects are just a notch above those in the Korg in terms of their programability and sound. It's also cool that they're flash upgradable, and Kurzweil just came out with version 2.0.

 

What makes the K2500 the most flexible, however, is the complexity of its sampling mode and the availibility of excellent soundware. The Triton's sampling is mostly there to let you sample loops and add them to your sequences. There has not really formed much of a 3rd party set of soundware for the Triton. The Kurzweil, on the other hand, has dozens of CDRoms of amazing quality sounds to be loaded into its RAM. Check out those being offered by Kurzweil (such as the Take 6 CD), Sweetwater, and other manufacturers. My favorite example is the Sweetwater CDROM, Ultimate Guitars. IMHO, There is simply no better guitar-emulation package available for any synthesizer. Sweetwater's Daniel Fisher (who writes a Synth Tricks & Tips collumn in Keyboard) designed the programs so that not only are they sampled well, but they play like a guitar, so that the pitch bends only affect the string being played and that long-range pitch bends are not smooth as on a synthesizer, but sound as if you're going over frets. This kind of thing is simply not possible on the Triton.

 

The large library of soundware for the Kurzweil means much more than the 16meg expansion boards for the Triton. For instance, instead of getting stuck with Korg's 16 megs of dance samples, you get to load in tons of different samples from a CDRom. Plus, I can say without a doubt that the Kurzweil's piano sounds are far superior to the Korg's, even using the Korg's expansion board. As far as the MOSS board goes, it's true that the Kurzweil has no real comparison to that. However, Kurzweil does have an analog-synth patch set which uses the VAST system to make really good renditions of analog synths.

 

There are many other goodies in the Kurzweil, including KB3-mode, Live-mode, the 8 front panel sliders, the long ribbon, and the arpeggiators. KB3 mode is really amazing, it gives you a true tonewheel model like a Roland VK7 does, but also allows you to use samples in the drawbars. The sequencer has always been extremely easy to use and very flexible, with 32 tracks and many excellent tools from quantization to event list and pattern modes.

 

This comparison is a really useful one. It pits against each other probably the two most successful high-end synthesizers and challenges the concept of a Desert-Island Keyboard. Both the Triton and the K2500/2600 are desert island keyboards. Both allow for a great amount of expandability and have a wealth of features. But there are things about the Kurzweil that make it far superior both sonically and in terms of flexibility.

 

I hope that my post will trigger a more detailed comparison of these two axes, especially from Kurzweil owners such as the Keyboard staff.

 

Thanks for your time in reading my post, and feel free to email me with questions.

 

Steve

[Stephen Fortner]

I've done a lot of extensive listening to both, as I'm currently building a project studio around a G4, Logic, and some kind of nice master keyboard. I'm one of those longtime fans of Kurzweil. I'm on my third K2000 (They can be had for a song these days --no pun intended-- and with lots of live gigging I tend to go through one keyboard action every coupla years.) For my money, the K2xxx instruments simply sound better, regardless of the fact that the Kurzweil waveROM is ancient and that the Triton plays back its samples at 48KHz as opposed to 44.1. The Triton has a cool sequencer and sexy user interface, but to my ears the Kurzweil has a smoothness and a substance hard to find on other sample-based synths. This holds true even when I A-B my old K2000 with newer offerings like the Triton, Roland XV series, and Yamaha EX series. The library of third-party samples for Kurzweil is huge, as well, whereas it is still embryonic for the Triton. Also, I've found that the K2500 (not the pricier K2600) can be had for considerably less money than the Triton, leaving you with extra dough for things like more sample RAM etc.

[callengowanco.com]

Well boys,

 

I'm going to throw a wrinkle in here, for 6 months I tried to decide between a K2500/2600xs and a Triton, eventually after demoing them I ended up with neither.

I loved the controller portion of the Kurzweils and this was probably its greatest benefit. Wasn't attracted to the 7 seven year old rom and 16bit internal/18 bit D/A converters.

I own a studio and the Triton just sounds too wet, the sequencer didnt record sysex data, and the midi and sample processing was slow on both the Kurweils and the Korg.

I eventually ended up with a combo: The Kurzweil PC2X( great controller,new triple strike sounds, new Rom, 24 bit, and 2 additonal 16 meg roms on the way)and Emu E4XTUltra IMHO the best Sampler on the market. Lightening fast midi and sample processing, and the best onboard sequencer out their market.

[dansouth]

Originally posted by SteveFortner:

For my money, the K2xxx instruments simply sound better, regardless of the fact that the Kurzweil waveROM is ancient and that the Triton plays back its samples at 48KHz as opposed to 44.1.

 

Sound is the most important thing. It's also a very personal thing. You should go for the unit that sounds better to you. In most cases, that will depend on the type of music you want to produce. For me, the Triton wins in most instances. I would not use it for everything though. It has a "synth-like" sound that does not translate well to wind and solo strings like oboe and viola. I use other brands for these sounds.

 

BTW, I don't agree that KDFX sounds better than the Triton's effects. The Triton's are not as flexible from a continuous controller standpoint, but they are MUCH easier to use than KDFX. Triton gives you five insert and two master effects. KDFX provides 4 insert and one master.

 

If you can swing it, the ultimate combination would be a K2600 keyboard and a Triton Rack. The Rack is more expandable than the keyboard, and the Kurzweil is a better controller, IMHO. Buy the K2600 stripped, because unlike the K2500, options are user installable. You can expand as you go.

 

Kurzweil is well-supported by sample libraries. I like the Sweetwater Total Stereo Session Drums CD. Not a big fan of the Guitar collection, though. They sound fine in the lower two octaves, but they become painfully tinny above that. Run 'em through some stomp boxes, and you may not notice, but I have yet to hear a sampler - ANY sampler - provide a decent clean guitar sound above A-440.

 

One more sampler note. I have a Roland S-760, and it's programs sound better when I play them back on the Kurzweil. Not MUCH better, but you can tell the difference when you A:B them.

 

I agree that the Triton's raw waveforms are brilliantly realized, but I'd like to debunk this 44.1 vs. 48K nonsense. There are probably three people in the world who can hear the difference, and one of them is lying. 32K to 44.1K, yes, we can all hear the difference. But 44.1 and 48 are one and the same for all intents and purposes. - I think Craig did an article on this at one point. - I usually work in 44.1 for CD compatibility, but if I want to use the Triton Rack's ADAT out, I'll have to go 48.

 

Note on Triton expansion boards: I would skip the Studio Essentials board. The Piano board is fairly good. The electrics are excellent, and the acoustics are better than the pianos on the K2500 daughter board, but not as good as what you'll get from a reputable sample CD (size matters). The waveforms on the Vintage board will blow you away, but the programming doesn't really showcase their power adequately. Be prepared to roll your own. Just got the Dance Extremes board; I'll post back after I've had a chance to play with it.