Mixer Connections

[Dr Teeth]

I have decided for the VLZ, teh questions are:

 

1. I think the best way to record basses and guitars is trough an amp right? But I heard a guy saying that thoes instrument must be connected(in case you dont have an amp and a good mic) to the mic input because its poor signal leve, would it be correct?

 

2. How should I use a diagraphan mic if i have to use the mixer's pre but i also want to pass the mic in a compressor?

 

3. Dynamic mics should be in the signal level imput or in the pre amp?

[Hippie]

Originally posted by LatinMusic:

I have decided for the VLZ, teh questions are:

 

1. I think the best way to record basses and guitars is trough an amp right? But I heard a guy saying that thoes instrument must be connected(in case you dont have an amp and a good mic) to the mic input because its poor signal leve, would it be correct?

 

2. How should I use a diagraphan mic if i have to use the mixer's pre but i also want to pass the mic in a compressor?

 

3. Dynamic mics should be in the signal level imput or in the pre amp?

 

 

Hi LatinMusic,

 

1. Yes, you should use a direct box when going straight into a mixer. A direct box will boost the levels of the bass guitar to a level closer to what the mixer is looking for. I like using a mix of bass amp & direct input.

 

2. You should patch the compressor using the mixers "channel insert" when you are using a mic & a compresser.

 

3. I'm not sure I understand the question..

 

-Hippie

[Guest]

1. The first part of this is open to debate http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif, but I would agree that putting a guitar or bass into a mic pre is a necessity, due to their being instrument level connections. (Which is somewhere between mic and line level. I can never remember where.) This assumes that the instrument is not using any electronics that put line level signal out. I think that a DI box is a good idea when doing this, as it (should) give you a balanced output at mic (some will evidently do line) level.

 

2. As Hippie said, insert points: learn 'em, live 'em, love 'em. An insert point is a place in the console's signal path where you can send all of the signal at that point in the path to another device, and then bring it back into that path.

 

3. Dynamic mics require pre-amps just like a condenser mics. What they do not require is phantom power, as they work on the principle of inductance. (A coil of wire moving in a magnetic field generates electricity as it moves.) They also generate enough current on their own (still not much) to not need an externally powered impedance changing amplifier.

 

-Danny

 

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Of all the things that I have lost, I miss my mind the most.

[Dr Teeth]

THank you guys!!1

[Dr Teeth]

Could you explain more about insert points...?

 

When you say direct box you mean Pre amp...?

[Uh Clem]

Originally posted by LatinMusic:

Could you explain more about insert points...?

 

When you say direct box you mean Pre amp...?

 

1) If you have a Mackie VLZ, go to the Mackie site and download the manual they give a complete explanation of how to use the Inserts to put a compressor or whatever into your signal path.

 

2) Direct Boxes (also called DIs) are not exactly pres - but some active ones do have gain. They mainly balance your signal and match levels. Check out http://www.whirlwindusa.com/dirbox.html for some examples. I have used their Hot Box. It is OK - I prefer the Boss DI-1 and the Radial DIs. A Good DI is in the $200-$300 range.

[fantasticsound]

Inserts on Mackie, and most other inexpensive boards are unbalanced signals, sent and returned on one 1/4" TRS jack. On the Mackie's, tip is the send signal +, ring is the return signal +, and both ground to the shield.

 

If you buy a prewired insert cable, it will be a "Y" cable. The tip will lead to the red mono 1/4" end of the "Y". If it doesn't work, just switch the two mono ends and it should fix the problem. (The mono ends plug in to the input and output of your compressor.)

 

The channel inserts on a 1402 are on the backside, below ther first couple of channel strips.

 

Hope this explains it.

 

------------------

Neil

 

Reality: A few moments of lucidity surrounded by insanity.

[ian1642605905]

Aren't insert point primarily for dynamic processing,ie:EQ,compressor,gate?

ian*

[Anderton]

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The other issue is input impedance. A guitar or bass with passive pickups wants to see at least 220K, which is higher than many direct boxes and preamps. Lower values dull highs and reduce level. That's why it's good that more and more of the "all in one" studios include special, high impedance inputs for guitar and bass. Devices like the POD, J-Station, etc. also present a high input impedance.

[Dr Teeth]

What are, how they work, and for what are used:

 

1. Busses?

 

2. Inserts?

[fantasticsound]

Originally posted by ian*:

Aren't insert point primarily for dynamic processing,ie:EQ,compressor,gate?

ian*

 

In a nutshell, yes & no. Yes, most people use them for dynamic processing, but mostly because they don't want to print the efx to the recorded track right away.

 

No, because an insert is a buss. Use it for ANYTHING you want to print.

 

Using Aux busses makes more sense for most of us, for efx, because you can control the send and return levels from the mixer. The return is also parallel to the dry signal. This makes it easy to control relative wet/dry levels from channel faders or return faders. This is not available on an insert.

 

{Note, on larger consoles, the insert patch is achieved with 2 1/4" or XLR jacks. They can, therefore, send and return a balanced signal taking full advantage of CMR (Common Mode Rejection).}

 

 

------------------

Neil

 

Reality: A few moments of lucidity surrounded by insanity.

[Special_K]

LatinMusic,

Regarding your question about

1. Busses?

2. Inserts?

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We assume you have a Mackie mixer since you used their "VLZ" (Very Low Impedence) trademark. I think you may be confused with the use of inserts which have already been described in other posts and the typical reference to a "4 buss" mixer such as a Mackie 1604 VLZ (or CFX 12, etc.).

 

Those 4 busses will have separate sliders. Each channel slider will have buttons to allow you to select which channel pair to send the signal to. The reason you select a pair is that each buss slider will have buttons to allow you to select Left or Right to allow stereo L/R control. The levels you select on the buss sliders will all go to the main mix output and there are also outputs for each buss.

 

An example use might be to put all vocals on busses 1/2 and all instruments on 3/4 so you can fade the instruments (or vocals) into the background, etc. etc.

 

Here's the web site for access to Mackie owner's manuals http://www.mackie.com/TechSupport/Tech_Library/Owners_Manuals.asp

 

Dave