New Roland V2 Drums?

[Saint Johnny B]

When will they be out? I dunno.

 

Here's a summary of the major points people here have made for improvements. If I left any important points out, feel free to add what you'd like.

 

OK,the hardware needs improvement. Plastic parts does not cut it. Steel brackets and solid road worthy hardware is needed.

 

The rubber rim around the drum shells need to be much tougher. It should not split or crack.

 

I talked yesterday to a guy in GC's drum shop, he said some guys were breaking the heads. It took them some time to do this, but they managed to break them. So the heads should be tougher.

 

There needs to be three or more triggers in just about every component. Esp the cymbals.

 

The brain needs to be redesigned to allow more inputs from all the added triggers. They should probably use a different type of cable too, since a TRS/stereo cable can't handle 3 or more triggers.

 

Last but not least, the carrying case will need to be redesigned. The first one was pretty cool cuz it had retractable handles and wheels sort of like airport luggage. Perhaps, the same idea for the V2, but it can accommodate the new V2 Drums.

 

OK, it's not out yet, but here's your chance to have some input.

[Super 8]

Dude, you work for Roland don't you....

 

Load your own samples via memory stick or smart media. Maybe an R-Bus connection too.

The XV 5080 has these features, so I'm thinking this may be a possibility.

[Saint Johnny B]

Funny you should say that. I've been accused of working for all kinds of companies, Mackie, Yamaha, QSC, Fender, some German outfits, Apple, IBM, M-Soft, and many, many more. None of it is true. I'm just a simple guy from a small town. Small Town USA.

 

Nevertheless, a new version has to be in the works so you may as well get your input in. eh?

[Saint Johnny B]

Is Roland ready to give an offical comment?

 

Or is it still too early?

[Super 8]

Originally posted by Johnny B:

I'm just a simple guy from a small town. Small Town USA.

Oh sure.... All the Roland R&D guys say that .

 

Which small town? If you don't mind my asking...

[Saint Johnny B]

Ah, it's just south of what some people call "The City." They are kind of arrogant, don't you think? There are a lot of cities in the USA, they can't all be "The City."

 

Ok, back on topic. Try to throw out your best ideas for a new product. Thanks.

[C_F_H_13]

Being able to load in your own samples is a must for me. Most of Rolands sounds just don't match up to my own sample library. So instead of having to sound replace everything, just let me use them from the start. I would also like to see better hardware (those plastic clamps suck) and maybe more outputs for recording, like say one for every input.

 

That's just me though.

[Allan Speers]

You're right about the clamps, they're terrible. that's why I bought my kit without the stand, and used a Gibraltar. That also gives you the option of using the same rack with real drums. I would recommend that with ANY e-kit.

 

As for the sounds, I've gotta tell you, while there are a LOT of ridiculous ones in the Roland brain, there are quite a few KILLER sounds in the expansion card. -But you HAVE to tweak them. It's amazing how bad the factory set-ups were in that thing. Listen to Omar hakim's last solo album. It's 100% TD10 (even the cymbals) and sounds great.

 

still, I don't think any e-kit will EVER compete with something like Gigastudio. That would put the price in the $8-10,000 range, and a manufacturer obviously has to sell primarily to working stiffs.

[Saint Johnny B]

Yup, get rid of the lame factory set-ups that try to demo the ability to sequence. Dump the Coo-coo clocks and bird whistles and goofy junk that goes off when you trigger a rim.

 

So there seems to be a vote for the existing expansion card sound set and another vote for the ability to load in your own sample sounds.

 

Would anyone like the ability to do both?

[Super 8]

The thing about loading your own samples is that UNLESS you can make your samples work the same way in the brain as the original Roland samples do, you might as well save yourself a ton of money and just get a sampler that's loaded out with RAM.

 

The great thing about the Roland drum boxes going back to the R8, is there ability to make the samples 'breathe' a bit. They never sound static.

 

If you buy a TD-10mkII or whatever, just to use your own samples, I'd have to ask; "why?"... For half the price you could have a decent sampler that would do the same thing.

[Saint Johnny B]

Ok, that makes sense.

 

Would you like some more sounds built-in, and some better or more cymbal sounds?

 

See, if they add the extra triggers you should be able to get more sounds and nuance, hence the question about the sounds.

 

But the user could re-assign the sounds around in different ways, in other words, you would not be limited to going for a more realistic recreation of an accoustic kit. For example, lets say you have some more triggers on the tom, you could assign 2 to birch an a 3rd to maple or whatever, and have something that sounds good but would never exist in the accoustic world.

 

I could see a potential need to allow the user to load in some of their own sounds too or buy some pre-loaded sound cards from Roland.

 

I'm wondering if a hybrid approach might solve these kinds of questions.

 

Thoughts?

[Allan Speers]

quote: "...UNLESS you can make your samples work the same way in the brain as the original Roland samples do, you might as well save yourself a ton of money and just get a sampler that's loaded out with RAM."

 

Good point, super-8. -And there's the problem. A dedicated sampler will always have more ram capability, and more sound flexibilty, yet the factory "brain" will always have important functions that are specific to the e-pads. certain e-drum niceties will NEVER be incorporated into a dedicated sampler.

 

For instance: positional cross-fading simply can't be done with a sampler. The hi-hats thing, which Roland does better than anyone else, is dependant upon a special way of controlling the envelopes.

Additionally, the "ambience" effect in the TD-10 is really amazing, better on drums than anything in my TC S-6000, Altiverb, etc. (although the built-in reverb stinks, but who needs it?)

 

In addition, the TD-10 has a few drummer-friendly functions: For instance, big buttons that you can actually hit with sticks. -you'll NEVER see that on an Akai. And I LOVE the built-in musical patterns that can be used to practice against.

 

The obvious solution is to have the e-kit's brain, and if needed, expand on it with a dedicated sampler. The key is for the manufacturer to be aware of this, and thus to make a given brain functions specific to driving external samplers. We haven't really seen that yet, though I doubt will ever will. That's just not how companies think.

[Zeke Smith.]

I'd like more trigger inputs, especially for cymbals. Having more than one expansion board available, and having the TD-10 able to accept more than one at a a time would be nice. Maybe focusing each expansion around themes, like "snares," "percussion," "cymbals," or around styles, using the SRX expansion format. That would keep me amused for months.

 

I'd love to dump the goofy crap in the memory for more and better snare samples, and more and better cymbal samples. I could use more ride cymbals, some better crashes, and some exotic stuff like splashes, chinas, and all those wacky little accent cymbals.

[Super 8]

How many snare drums and kicks does it really need though? What I have found for myself is that, I find the sounds I like and I pretty much stick with them. I use other sounds for variation, but it's variation on MY sound.

 

When I first started playing electronics exclusively live over 10 years ago, I kind of went for the 'Drumsound for every occasion' thing. I have an 'old' sounding kit for the Beatles tunes we did. I had a 'metal' sounding kit for the Poison songs we did. And then I got to thinking about how much of a chamealian I was trying to be. I decided that my edrums could be more than just a genre drumset emulator. So I worked to find MY sound, and then do vaiations on that that would hint at the various styles I played without overtly trying to duplicate them.

 

My point is, if you've got 10 snares, 100, snares, 1000 snares, who cares as long as you find maybe 5 that you really want to work with.

 

I was reading an interview with Bill Bruford once back when he was all about his Simmons SDX kit. He was talking with Dave Stewart, who was trying to offer him all of these drum samples that he had. Bill's comment was; "I don't need MORE drum sounds. I need to do MORE with the drum sounds I already have."

 

I think Bill was on to something. If you listen to the ABWH album, or the Earthworks albums, you will hear A LOT of the same sounds. But he makes really great use of them. And he has a signature sound that just says 'Bruford'. I mean you can just hear it. That's where I've been trying to come from...

[Saint Johnny B]

These are all great points.

I do like the part about being able to develop your own signature sound easily if you want to.

 

Ok, what if you had a Roland utility program for your computer and it took care of formating your favorite sample(s) in such a way that it would take advatage of Rolands expanded drum pads and cymbals that had more triggers. From there you could connect a wire from your computer and save the sound to a memory card in the TD-11's brain?

And what if you had a few more slots in the brain to plug cards into, some of which would be pre-programed at the factory? Would that be helpful?

[Allan Speers]

Super 8,

 

Was Bruford playing 100% electronic, or real cymbals?

[Zeke Smith.]

I guess what I really was digging at was that I'd love for more of the snares in there to really be useful. There are maybe two that I use. It'd be nice to have 4 or 5 really useful sounds (just like I have 5 acoustic snare drums for different occasions) than to have 20 less useful sounds. But I guess that my idea of "useful" is probably different than other peoples' might be.

 

I think the idea of being able to have a computer-based editor that could access the typical sample formats, convert them for use in the hypothetical TD-11 format, and then upload them to the module via USB or whatever would answer all of this. That way, Roland could even offer an online (free or subscription) database of samples that could only be used in the TD-11 via upload. Because of all the V-Drum specific parameters, even if this just had the ability to use Roland samples and not third-party ones, it'd still be useful. That way, I could load up only the samples I would actually use.

[Super 8]

Originally posted by Allan Speers:

Super 8,

 

Was Bruford playing 100% electronic, or real cymbals?

Good point. Bruford always uses real cymbals.

[Super 8]

Originally posted by The Zeke Smith:

I think the idea of being able to have a computer-based editor that could access the typical sample formats, convert them for use in the hypothetical TD-11 format, and then upload them to the module via USB or whatever would answer all of this.

I think this is a MUST.

Back when memory was pricey and small, you could be by on advertising that this unit has 100 sounds or 200 sounds or whatever.

 

These days nobody is lacking for sounds. What we need are the 'RIGHT' sounds. With programs like Reason or Fruity Loops or all of the other soft-synths out there, people are getting really spoiled about having a really nice GUI to work with, and having the ability to really dial their sound. I think hardware based drumboxes need to have that same degree of flexibility via computer connectivity.

 

Simply packing more sample data into the box isn't enough anymore. We need more control...

[Saint Johnny B]

Ok, these all sound like good ideas so far.

Super, what if you had some more modern loop editors in there as well, so you could download a loop, edit it, throw it inot a sequncer and then play along with it, record it, edit some more, and then you could easliy dump it into all the popular DAW's like Logic, Motu, Cake, Srienberg and Pro Tools.

 

And what if you could download tracks right off of these DAW packages, play along with them, and send your new drum tracks to someone accoss the county via the net, or just hand them a disk when you arrive to pick up your check.

 

Would that be something you guys would like? Or do you have better ideas?

[Platy]

The best idea in this thread to come up so far is undoubtably the computer interface. Being able to hook the brain up to your computer to tweak it as you wish (with a mouse and keyboard rather than knobs and buttons too!) would be a major selling point. Sort of along the lines of line6 pod pro deep editing.

[Saint Johnny B]

Ok, try these ideas on for size.

 

Note Succession:

 

Here you could tune each individual hit to a certain note. For example, you hit the floor tom 3 times and the first hit plays a note that is an "A," the next is a "D," and the 3rd is an "E."

You would not have to put in the timing, just bang and the notes change the way you want. Sort of like a bunch of Timpani's.

 

New Better Samples and Sounds :

 

Samplers have improved since the introduction of the original TD-10 and the addition of the expansion card, you now have A-to-D converters doing 24/192 Khz or the Sony format, so the samples can be improved. So can the COSM models for similar reasons.

 

New Bigger Color Screen

 

This one is kind of obvious, screen tech has improved and become cost competitive...cheap.

 

8-Track Recorder/Sequencer

 

With memory prices always falling and the tech getting better, this would simply double the capability of the old TD-10.

 

"2 Pitchshift/Expression Pedals

 

2 pedals for either assignable expression, such as panning, and/or pitch shifting, for example, one pedal could plug into the floor tom and now you have a tunable Timpani or a Tabla or Conga that can make that "whoooooooo" sound.

 

There's a lot that can be done in the design of a new Roland TD-11, but the users need to speak up and say what they would like to see. So, fire away with your best ideas.

[Platy]

Thumbs down for note SUCCESSION, its just too strange sounding a concept for me to ever see myself finding a use for it. Tuneable toms are a great idea though, like your idea minus the succession.

[Saint Johnny B]

Well the Note Succession idea came from a session drummer I was talking to who wanted it, seems like an OK idea, you would not have to use it, but it could be nice to know it was there if you needed it.

 

But you like the idea of more control over the tuning and expression pedals.

 

Does anyone else have any cool ideas to add? Here's your chance.

[Platy]

all this in a package I have some chance of affording?

[Saint Johnny B]

I dunno. Can you afford the existing V Drums?

[Platy]

lol no... One day I'll own a set. One day...

 

$7 an hour 17 hours a week is enough to have fun and save up for minor stuff like cymbals and such, but it isn't much of a dent in a $3000 price tag

 

oh well, being 16 has its pros and cons

[Saint Johnny B]

Well what could you afford? And then tell us what you really think would be fair.

[Allan Speers]

quote: "There are a lot of cities in the USA, they can't all be "The City."

 

There's only ONE "the city" in the USA. It's rotten to the core, and it never sleeps. -and if you play for a living, you can't afford the rent.

[Saint Johnny B]

Well the never sleeping part is right, usu. not alone anyway. LOL

 

I dunno 'bout the rotten parts, I'm sure you can find them if you know where to look. LOL