billie jean snare

[totemspock]

I´ve just noticed that the third snare-stroke in billie jean by michael jackson is a little bit to early:) I don´t expect someone to reply on this one, I just want you to noticed that this is a fact. but if someone has something to say, please do! (i´m not trying to say that the drummer isn´t keeping time....hmmmm that´s exactly what i´m trying to say). Listen to it! such a great song and a to early snare stroke...

[where02190]

It's a machine. More specificially synclaiver as I recall. Yes samples of actual snare drums, but machine played. Quincy's fav toy of that era.

 

Hope this is helpful.

[totemspock]

Is it really? I can´t imagine that... do you know something more about it? I think it sounds like a SM-57 on a wood snare.

[alan scobie]

That machine is called Jeff Porcaro.

 

[SoundWrangler]

It's "Ndugu" Leon Chancler. That was HIS signature snare sound (which can also be heard on the first couple George Duke solo albums from the 70's, for example, long before "Billie Jean" - check out "Feel" if it's still in print). He also played some with Weather Report & many other impressive credentials. It might be taking the idea too far, but there IS kind of a "front edge of the beat" kind of feel to Ndugu's playing - a very happy choice to have a forward-looking jazz cat like him play on such a solid & simple groove.

[totemspock]

thank´s interesting to know!

[totemspock]

Now I have like three different answers....wich one is right? A drum machine....or the two other drummers??

[Audiobotica]

Liner notes say:

Billie Jean

Written and Composed by Michael Jackson

Produced by Quincy Jones / Co-produced by Michael Jackson

Solo and background vocals by Michael Jackson

Rhythm arrangement by Michael Jackson

Vocal arrangement by Michael Jackson

Synthesizer arrangement by Michael Jackson

String arrangement by Jerry Hey

Strings conducted by Jeremy Lubbock

 

So Michael wants you to think he damn near did the whole track himself! Who you gonna believe?

 

I'm so confuuuuuuused!!

 

Yours in Music,

 

Ben Fury

[SoundWrangler]

Try a Google search. (Ndugu, "Billie Jean", Drums). Jeff Porcaro did indeed play on much of the Thriller album. But the drum part you're talking about was "Ndugu" Leon Chancler.

 

Also, take a peek here for a look at Ndugu's full discography... pretty impressive!

[alan scobie]

 

Well.....

 

Some of you may find this article interesting reading.

 

By David Barton

 

Jeff Porcaro was not a star - even when his group, Toto, swept

seven categories of the Grammy awards in 1983. To the mass rock

audience, he was just some guy in thick glasses, a name (usually in fine

print) on a record sleeve.

 

But his death Wednesday night, at 38, of an "allergic reaction"

to pesticides he was using on his lawn in his suburban Los

Angeles home, should not go unnoted.

 

That's because Porcaro was one of rock's greatest drummers, a man with

feel to burn and taste like few others, whose work is a crucial part

of some of the best rock and pop music made in the last 20 years.

 

As recently as this year, he was the drummer on Bruce Springsteen's

"Human Touch" album, and he turned down a full membership in Dire

Straits after wowing leader Mark Knopfler with his playing on the band's

recent "On Every Street."

 

Knopfler, speaking to The Bee in January, said of Porcaro, "He's amazing,

as good as it gets."

 

Porcaro turned down Dire Straits because he wanted to continue to work

with Toto, despite the group's lack of success since its big Grammy

sweep.

 

Likewise, Springsteen asked him to join his current touring band, and

offered him a rumored $1 million for his time. Porcaro declined.

 

When he died, Porcaro was working on sessions for John Fogerty's new

album, and preparing for a new Toto tour that would have been

launched after the release of the group's new album, "Kingdom of

Desire." (A label representative said Thursday that plans for the

album's release are on hold.)

 

Those recent recordings were just the latest in a long, glorious line of

great performances that began when Porcaro left high school to play

with Sonny and Cher, and soon moved on to work with Steely Dan -- that's

him on "Doctor Wu" on the 1975 album "Katy Lied," blending jazz and

rock without losing the essence of either; on Boz Scaggs' "Silk

Degrees," driving that classic blue-eyed soul hit, "Lowdown"; on

Donald Fagen's excellent solo album "The Night Fly," giving new life to

the classic "Ruby Baby"; and on Paul Simon's "Hearts and Bones,"

providing the lazy locomotive chug of "Train in the Distance."

 

And of course, there was Michael Jackson's "Thriller," of which Porcaro

was a large part of the engine, especially on "Billie Jean," the

drummer delivering the steady, unforgettable groove that set Jackson

as free as he's ever been.

 

And then there were recording dates with Diana Ross, Jackson Browne, Don

Henley, Carly Simon and Rickie Lee Jones.

 

He was dismissed as a "studio hack" by some, especially critics who found

little to like in Toto's slick pop - hits like "Hold the Line,"

"Rosanna" and "Africa" - but he was a brilliant contributor to the work

of others.

 

Porcaro should not be judged by his work with Toto, which was made up of

Porcaro, his brothers Steve and Mike, Bobby Kimball, Steve Lukather,

David Paich and David Hungate. As decent as it is, it is mostly

forgettable.

 

Instead, he should be remembered for those great records, and what he did

for them with his remarkable ability to bring a song alive, to invest

a simple drum beat -- for he was above all a simple, direct player --

with a personality, a contour, a feel.

 

My fondest memory of Porcaro - indeed, my only memory of him as a live

performing musician - was in an unlikely spot: Marysville's

Riverfront Park.

 

It was there that Toto, in May, 1985 (already past its commercial prime),

was doing an afternoon gig before a small, indifferent crowd, under

a blazing sun.

 

I was backstage, watching the show. Porcaro was in shorts, playing in

the shadows, as always. The band, which had a new, widely-

ignored and immediately forgotten album out, launched into the first

song, "Carmen."

 

It was a nondescript rocker, the kind of bland-but-competent stuff

Toto was known for. But as soon as they started, Porcaro fell into the

groove like nobody's business, goosing the band, charging the fills

and just smoldering through the song as though it were "Satisfaction"

itself.

 

As he finished the song, swinging through the final roll, he leapt off

his stool and turned to the small knot of slack-jawed roadies and

visitors behind the stage, who broke into ecstatic cheers.

 

Exultant, Porcaro thrust his fists in the air like an Olympic gold

medalist, thrilled with his performance and fully engaged in the making

of rock 'n' roll.

 

And then he climbed back onto his stool, and carried on.

 

Cheers

 

Alan.

[robmix]

According to Bruce Swedien, the engineer on the session, it's Jeff Porcaro. Was the Synclav even invented yet ?

 

Rob

[smooveface]

Great Snare!!! I've since sampled it and used it on numerous tracks I've put together in my home studio. Although, one thing I will note is the strange fact that whenever I try to substitute another kick, the snare for whatever reason does not sound the same. So when you mention the snare, don't discount the subtlties of the kick drum. But it is indeed a phat snare.

[John O. Lennon]

It's not uncommon (especially in high-budget realms) for pop music to be composed/created by commitee.

A part can be melded from many elements: a drum machine track, w/cymbals triggering a sampler (for better sound) + some parts of the rhythm tracked by different players, for their varying feels; etc.

Perhaps the track features all the previously cited players (& machines) blended by MJ("rhythm arrangement by") & QJ into what was eventually heard!

[dayvel]

I remember an interview with Ndugu where he talked about playing "Billie Jean" and how hard it was to play that simply for the entire track. He's also credited on all the track-by-track discographies I found on the net. And it sounds like him, too.

[alan scobie]

Well..... he's talking bollocks isn't he?

 

 

Bruce Swedien Should know really eh??

 

Cheers.

 

Alan.

[SoundWrangler]

Originally posted by robmix:

According to Bruce Swedien, the engineer on the session, it's Jeff Porcaro...

What's your source for that - where/when did Swedien say that?

[robmix]

Originally posted by SoundWrangler:

Originally posted by robmix:

According to Bruce Swedien, the engineer on the session, it's Jeff Porcaro...

What's your source for that - where/when did Swedien say that?

Sorry, it was Ndugu. I was thinking of "Beat It". My source is Swedien himself.

 

Rob

[SoundWrangler]

Thanks, Rob. Had me cornfused for a minute there. For us Ndugu fans, it was a noteworthy credit at the time. Hey BTW, since you've apparently got it from the horse's mouth: Swedien made some interview comments here about how much work went into the Billie Jean drum sound (91 mixes!) - "building a drum platform and designing some special little things like a bass drum cover and a flat piece of wood that goes between the snare and the hi-hat". Do you happen to know the skinny on this?

[Gtoledo3]

Soundwrangler, I read that too. He also said that he thought about the drum setup for weeks ahead f the recording session. That kinda makes me think it was a real drummer, but hey- ya never know! They could have sampled the hits I guess- did they have samplers back then?