sidereal Posted December 19, 2001 Share Posted December 19, 2001 I'm looking for a china with that characteristic soft, quick attack and almost no decay. I know Terry Bozzio and others would "sandwich" hat cymbals on chinas to get this effect, but that's not quite what I want... that tone is too "tinny" for me. Anyone know what I'm referring to? It's that fast, mellow, no-decay sound. I want the china to have a nice, rich tone, but be heard quickly and then go away. Doesn't matter what brand it is. I'd love to hear your suggestions (brand, type, diameter, etc.) Just for the record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerCafe Posted December 19, 2001 Share Posted December 19, 2001 I've always thought the Wuhan chinas sounded like what you are wanting. I have a 18" Wuhan that I really love. I've never cared for any of the Zildjian, Sabian or Paiste chinas, but I haven't tried them in years ..... maybe things have changed. To me the other company's chinas have the long, funky tone after the attack ... which I hate. I like a quick effect that gets out of the way and doesn't sustain through everything. I don't know what your ears hear, but mine hear the Wuhan's to sound like what you described as wanting. Drummer Cafe - community drum & percussion forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k1neta Posted December 19, 2001 Share Posted December 19, 2001 I use a Sabian 12-inch China for that "fast" sound. It's fairly loud, with a nice attack and very little sustain. Love it It compliments my other cymbals quite well. (If you want to hear how it sounds I have a few live clips from last summer up at artistlaunch.com/gag . ) I really should try one of them thar wuhan's out as well, but they're hard to come by over here. Kenneth Kenneth Gag Watchers On The Storm Elegie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaddabout Posted December 19, 2001 Share Posted December 19, 2001 Originally posted by Bartman: I've always thought the Wuhan chinas sounded like what you are wanting. I have a 18" Wuhan that I really love. I've never cared for any of the Zildjian, Sabian or Paiste chinas, but I haven't tried them in years ..... maybe things have changed. To me the other company's chinas have the long, funky tone after the attack ... which I hate. I like a quick effect that gets out of the way and doesn't sustain through everything. I don't know what your ears hear, but mine hear the Wuhan's to sound like what you described as wanting. Terry Bozzio used to use Wuhans before he went to Sabian. A friend of mine swears Sabian simply stole the Wuhan cymbal and put their name on it, just for Bozzio. In retrospect, I think he's right. Neil Peart, a die-hard Zildjian endorser, uses Wuhan china types exclusively. Always has. My personal experience with Wuhan is not so good. I'm not a heavy hitter, but I still managed to crack my 16" Wuhan. It's a nice trashy sound, but you give up something in durability when you buy them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rader Ranch Posted December 19, 2001 Share Posted December 19, 2001 l like Bill Bruford's method of choosing one....i.e. finding it in the trash (see/hear King Crimson-Red for further details). i've saved a number of somewhat less than whole dirty old beat to shit cymbals for just this reason... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlhubley Posted December 20, 2001 Share Posted December 20, 2001 Wuhan chinas are GREAT for that sound. They are also very cheap. They ARE thin, but if you break it, no big deal. They are cheap enough for you to replace it rather easily. For a real quick sound, I'd say check out the 16" model. Although, the larger sizes are also quick. Zildjian Oriental trash cymbals are also pretty quick. Now, on the side of this token. If one was looking for a China more apt for mellow long tones, and ride capability, what do you guys suggest. I've seen the Zildjian Oriental Classics, they sound pretty dern nice. Also some of the K's. I recently checked out some UFIP chinas. They are DRASTICALLY DIFFERENT, in shape, color, appearance, and most of all sound. For all of you China fans, check them out. BTW, I would not reccomend Bozzio's sig. series cymbals AT ALL. They are very "specific" cymbals. They are perfect for what he does, but just not that useful in real life. His chinas are most likely NOT what you are looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidereal Posted December 20, 2001 Author Share Posted December 20, 2001 Yeah, the Zildjian Oriental Trash 18" is what I'm currently using. It's not "washy" by any means and has a beautiful aggressive tone to it, but it's still not quick enough. The Wuhans sound like what I'm looking for. Thanks everyone. (btw, Kenneth, I also really liked the Sabian I heard on your site.) I'm imagining that the smaller the diameter, the shorter the sound, correct? I'll look into like a 14". Anyone want to buy a used Zildjian Oriental? rlhubley... I used to use a Zildjian China Boy Low, which was decent for doing washy rides, but it didn't exactly wow me. I can't recommend it. You may want to look into something with rivets, which might be good if it works for the music you do. It will certainly give you a longer note, with some added sizzle characteristics, of course. Just for the record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k1neta Posted December 20, 2001 Share Posted December 20, 2001 Yah. I think smaller size helps in order to get that super-fast attack with little to no sustain. 14" sounds reasonable (16" could work as well). Hope my ultra-busy playing didn't do anything wrong with your head Good luck on yer hunt. K. Kenneth Gag Watchers On The Storm Elegie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerCafe Posted December 20, 2001 Share Posted December 20, 2001 Originally posted by Gaddabout: My personal experience with Wuhan is not so good. I'm not a heavy hitter, but I still managed to crack my 16" Wuhan. It's a nice trashy sound, but you give up something in durability when you buy them. I've owned my 18" WUHAN China for over 10 years ... and have wailed on it ... never broke or cracked. Perhaps it's due to the Aquarian Cymbal Spring that everyone seems to diss? I personally like the spring and the cymbal. Who knows ... maybe my technique is so incredible that it's impossible for me to break a cymbal. Chaulk that up with the "how many licks to get to the center of a Tootsie Roll Tootsie Pop" ..... the World may never know! Drummer Cafe - community drum & percussion forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix stein Posted December 20, 2001 Share Posted December 20, 2001 What is up with that? When I tell other drummers I have never broken or cracked a cymbal they look at me like I'm a pussy or something. I'd like to hear the UFIP ones, I bet I would like those, where they glassy sounding?...or a Bosphorus...man, even their crashes are trashy. felix's band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzman Posted December 20, 2001 Share Posted December 20, 2001 I guess you guys never heard of a Ran-Can, LOL. I have a 16" @ $50. I'm in and out, no sustain and cuts through everything. I tried the 18" once and it was too sloppy and didn't add a thing. I don't follow the word "soft" Sidereal. Sorry I'm not in the pocket. My 2 cents worth.......... Jazzman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerCafe Posted December 20, 2001 Share Posted December 20, 2001 Originally posted by Jazzman: I guess you guys never heard of a Ran-Can, LOL. I have a 16" @ $50. I'm in and out, no sustain and cuts through everything. I tried the 18" once and it was too sloppy and didn't add a thing. I don't follow the word "soft" Sidereal. Sorry I'm not in the pocket. Actually, Ran-can is literally a WUHAN cymbal that Latin Percussion sells ...... they just slap their name on it is all ... it's the EXACT same cymbal, yet they all sound differently obviously. And Felix, I get some of those same attitudes from people when I tell them I don't break cymbals, sticks or drumheads. I can play and do play hard when the music calls for it. I call it Restrained Abandon. Drummer Cafe - community drum & percussion forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaddabout Posted December 20, 2001 Share Posted December 20, 2001 Originally posted by Bartman: Who knows ... maybe my technique is so incredible that it's impossible for me to break a cymbal. Chaulk that up with the "how many licks to get to the center of a Tootsie Roll Tootsie Pop" ..... the World may never know! Well, if we're comparing records, that Wuhan is the only thing I've ever broken. I haven't even broken a stick, although I've worn plenty down to the nub. I once broke my friend's guitar, but that was only because he had a labyrinth of cables laying around and I tripped and knocked it down off the stage. I think my technique is fine, but my grace ... well, there are no rudiments for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix stein Posted December 20, 2001 Share Posted December 20, 2001 Too funny felix's band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidereal Posted December 20, 2001 Author Share Posted December 20, 2001 Originally posted by Jazzman: I don't follow the word "soft" Sidereal. Yeah, it's tough to find words for some of these sounds we talk about. I guess I mean a more "mellow" attack. I'm not sure how else to describe it other than mellow or soft. (i.e. not harsh) I'm going through my Rush CDs to figure out if Neil had the sound. Close, but not quite. Now I'm just having fun listening to stuff I haven't put on the CD player in ages. ANALOG KID..... f-yeah, dude!!! Hey, let's jam this weekend.... nah, I got homework... I think Michelle might like me... we were passing notes in class today.... I'm gonna ask her to the prom..... okay, sorry, back to the present. Just for the record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzman Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 Bart, thanks alot for the explaination, didn't realize the connection my friend. Well anyway were thinking about the same thing. I'm very pleased with my a....er.....RanCa.....a..Wuhan cymbal! Whew! Peace Bro My fade out......... Jazzman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ackthbtbthotmail.com Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 I put together a rather unique China rig: An 18 inch Z Power Smash, in which I added 6 1/4 inch rivets, sandiwched tight to a super old 18 inch Krut crash. Homemade China rigs have always been my favorite. Although Narada Michael Walden had a killer sound on Visions Of The Emerald Beyond, by the Mahavishnu Orchestra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozen_dup1 Posted December 27, 2001 Share Posted December 27, 2001 Bart, what is the idea behind the Aquarian Cymbal spring? Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidereal Posted December 31, 2001 Author Share Posted December 31, 2001 Well, I got the Wuhan 14". I tried it out at a gig last night and it was exactly what I needed. And only $29!!! Definitely more of an effect cymbal. I may take it back actually and go with the 16" for a bit more body. But I loved it. Nice, short and great tone. Thanks again everyone! Just for the record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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