Chaffee's Odd Stuff

[felix stein]

I'm working again in his book "rhythmic and meter modulations"

 

There are several sections with rests for groups of 5's and 7's. To be more specific, 5 over 4 or 7 over 4.

 

What is the preferred method for counting 5's and 7's???

 

It's not easy breaking them up...especially modulating around in 3, 4, 5, and 6.

 

Thanks,

felix

[sidereal]

I love working with Chaffee stuff.

 

You'll probably get different answers on this, but I never count when doing his fast odd groupings. I was taught to maintain an internal pattern and to keep the pattern in mind when executing the group. It's almost like picking up a particular mantra when needed. The key thing to remember is to *not* accent when doing this, i.e. don't go "BA-da-BA-da-da / BA-da-BA-da-da..."

[DrummerCafe]

I agree with Sidereal about not accenting the syllables you choose to count. Certain syllables do carry more weight to them, so you'll have to work at backing off a bit, unless the figure does have accents in it.

 

For my complete response ... go HERE

 

If we are going to use North Indian counting system as an example, we've got to get the terms straight and be consistent ... or we just confuse ourselves and others.

 

A matra is the basic unit of time-measurement in North Indian Music. There is no specific prescribed duration of time value but is fixed in it's length according to the tempo of the performance. Thus a matra may be of 2 second duration (slow tempo or vilmabit), 1 second duration (medium-fast or madya), or 1/2 second duration (fast or drut). For any given tempo the matra remains constant.

 

All of this to say that matra is relating to the meter not a rhythm. A 8-matra phrase can be thought of as 8/8 or 4/4 ... depending on the tempo and how fast you want to be thinking of the bols or syllables.

 

A 7-matra phrase would be considered poly-meter not poly-rhythm; there is a difference ... so I want us to be on the same page here. The matra is clapped out, signifying the pulse and meter of the composition.

 

I didn't mean to make this an Indian Music 101 course; but I wanted to clarify the term that you were using, which doesn't apply to poly-rhythm, but rather poly-meter.

[sidereal]

Heh heh... sorry Bart, I said MANTRA not MATRA.

 

Man-tra (n)

1. a sacred word, chant or sound that is repeated during meditation to facilitate spiritual power or transformation of consciousness

2. an expression or idea that is repeated, often without thinking about it, and is closely associated with a particular action.

 

Interesting you bring up Indian theory though. It brings me back. I studied tabla in Varanasi, India for a while. But when I got back to the States, the time needed to get adept at tabla was taking away from my drumming practice, so I sort of gave up on it. It was an amazing experience though.

[MethodAir]

Hi guys,

 

In my experience, there is no right and wrong way when approaching odd times. Famously, someone like Vinnie breaks them down into groups of two and three, and favors a grouping of two and then 3 when dealing with 5. Superimposing 5 over 4 is another subject, and Peter Magadini also has a book which addresses this subject.

 

MethodAir

Electric Mountain Recording Studio

 

[ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: MethodAir ]

[DrummerCafe]

Originally posted by sidereal:

Heh heh... sorry Bart, I said MANTRA not MATRA.

 

Sorry ... my bad. http://baeproductions.net/images/emoticons/redface.gif

 

And I agree with MethodAir.

The link I supplied on my first post just goes to a response I gave Felix on my forum. It basically says what MethodAir said in that there are no firm rules. Heck, there are no rules period when you think about it. You can do whatever you want when it comes to music. People may not like it, but it's an artform ..... so have at it.

 

In history, theory always came after the music; ALWAYS. That's the only absolute you have to agree with.