Dampening the Snare Drum

[DrummerCafe]

A number of drummers have been emailing me, asking about the snare drum sound. I thought I would share my thoughts here as well, just incase a young player stumbles across the thread.

 

First of all, it's better to use the word dampen as opposed to the word muffle when discussing the topic of reducing the resonance of a snare drum by placing various materials on the drumhead. In classical music, a Muffled Snare Drum would mean that you turn the snares OFF. In the same medium, Dampened Snare Drum means to place a cloth, handkerchief, wallet, etc., on the snare drum batter head to mute the sound slightly. Since these definitions have been in place for a number of decades, I think it would be good for the drumming community at large to adopt these terms and use them appropriately.

 

In regards to reducing the ring of the snare drum; I think a lot of people dampen the snare drum WAY TOO MUCH!!! We tend to try and make the drum sound the way we want it as we play it; you know, that processed sound. But when you record the snare ... or even listen to it with the full band at a club, it's usually WAY TOO DEAD!!!

 

I know that I had this problem back when I first started playing. This was also the era when guys were taking the bottom heads off the drums; all because the engineers didn't know how to mic or record the drums. In their defense, technology has come a LONG way since the 60's and 70's.

 

If you can, get a buddy to hit the drum for you. Stand at least six feet in front of the drumkit and see what it sounds like. Even try to get the audience's perspective and move further away from the drum. A come problem I have with this is that no one hits the drum exactly like I do, so it's hard to really hear what it will sound like when I play.

 

I used to dampen the snot out of my toms too! Now ... those babies are WIDE open. If there's too much ring, I first try to tune it out by changing the relationship tuning between the top and bottom heads. For recording, I might put a small piece of tape (rolled up like a tube) just along the edge of the head (where the bearing edge is). This takes out the funky overtone ring, without killing too much of the sustain.

 

I'd almost rather have the engineer GATE my drums IF and ONLY IF there is a problem, rather than me having to fart around with deadening them acoustically.

 

THINK WIDE OPEN. Let your snare drum experience the FULL MONTE! http://baeproductions.net/images/emoticons/smilewinkgrin.gif

 

[ 12-04-2001: Message edited by: Bartman ]

[rlhubley]

I agree with the great Bartness on this one 100%.

 

Drums sound better wide open for many reasons.

 

We all know that sound is created by vibration. Well, when you add mass to the drum, in the drum, on the drum, or on the head(s) it decreases the amount of vibration that the heads produce. This is why I say that it KILLS the sound.

 

If you are still sold on the idea of dampening the hell out of your acoustic instrument, here's some advice. Make sure to buy VERY inexpensive drums, and choose them soley based on looks. There is no need to pay a lot of dough for an instrument made to produce wonderful resonance, if you plan on killing it!

 

In short, Let 'em sing!

[DrummerCafe]

Robert agreed with me so much that he had to say it twice! LOL

http://baeproductions.net/images/emoticons/rotflmao.gif

 

I agree about buying cheap drums if you plan to dampen them to death. Better still, go out back behind Krogers, pick up some cardboard boxes and mic them up. You'll get the same sound!

[k1neta]

I certainly agree with ya there folks

 

For me, dampening a snare is a no no - I love that ring from a good wood snare

 

I may get for this, but I find that many, no - alot - who dampen the shit out of their drums, usually don't know how to tune them properly. Proper gating is indeed better if one should run into a problem.

 

Kenneth

[Gaddabout]

Originally posted by k1neta:

I may get for this, but I find that many, no - alot - who dampen the shit out of their drums, usually don't know how to tune them properly. Proper gating is indeed better if one should run into a problem.

 

Funny, because I was just talking to another drummer about this last night. I think drummers spend too much behind a kit, and not in front of it listening to someone else play. A lot of the ring in the battery is at frequencies that don't carry 10 feet out, and especially not in most mics, so a drummer performing live really needs to step away and let someone else play to determine what the drum needs to sound like.

 

In the studio, I like to really open up the tuning and let toms ring. I usually do this by letting the bottom lugs out a quarter turn each, depending on their condition when I start. I find this best captures the warmth of a kit, even if it's not the natural sound of a kit. I've found this can really help if you're using a low-end kit with thin heads. I can't ever imagining dampening the heads unless we are going for something *unnatural*.

[k1neta]

In the studio, I like to really open up the tuning and let toms ring. I usually do this by letting the bottom lugs out a quarter turn each, depending on their condition when I start. I find this best captures the warmth of a kit, even if it's not the natural sound of a kit.

 

I might actually try that out next time I do some studio work.

 

 

And yes, I certainly agree that most drummers should get in front of the kit sometimes.

 

[ 12-04-2001: Message edited by: k1neta ]

[felix stein]

Well, I'm afraid I have to disagree and it's about time! Jeez, I was almost thinking you guys knew what you were talking about until this discussion. And you all do, but I think something has been forgotten or not brought up.

 

My last gig was videotaped and I was surprised at how beefy my snare sounded; behind the kit I felt as if it was tuned way to high. I had a half of a plastic "studio ring" on it. My toms, even though they had a very small amount of tape on each one (EGAD!)...sounded too open to me...especially in the fast stuff. Now this was without PA and the mic in the video camera sure as ca ca was not anything to write home about.

 

I used to play miked alot (that is an understatement)and we had gates and compressors but not always-depending on the sound guy. I mean with no muffling my drums would ring forever it seemed and we used to really tape those things up and crank the PA and reverb. I had the soundman tell me at "The Cove" in Geneva, OH that my kit was one of the best if not the best he's ever heard and they get national acts in there. I was like is this guy gay or what, but they were happening. Now, I have been told my drums sounded like shit, sounded dead, awesome, horrible-you name it. I'd say if your system is small (road house size) then don't be afraid to DAMPEN the kit. It's easier for everyone-but hard on the drummer's ego. Someone will let you know.

 

If I had to critique my last gigs sound I'd say my toms were too open and I had some masking tape on all of them (GASP).

 

Especially in the fast stuff. So thinking back, for me to get maximum articulation out of the power toms (not to be confused with fast sizes)...I would have to really play unmusically for the gig. I don't like tight choked heads and I don't have tiny drums (had them and don't like them either)...so I opt for some tape. I believe it's a give and take.

 

I'm not going to get into studio tuning right now...I like open drums but sometimes just don't have the time/kit to make them "sing" without bad overtones. It's not like I have a drum tech working on them 24/7 and can hand pick my kits and have my bearing edges put on a surface plate if the damn thing starts going squirrely.

 

Just my two cents.

 

I like the sound of wide open drums. But I believe there is a give and take. Especially when one gets to the fast stickings. Fast technique needs a tight head, small drum or some dampening. To me, wide open drums lose their attack, especially when one gets into the power sizes-maybe that is why "fast" sizes are so popular these days.

[DrummerCafe]

Felix, I don't really think you are disagreeing with any of us. I would support your reasons for dampening the drums.

 

You used your ears and did what it took to make the drums sound the way they needed to. You probably could have gotten the sound you needed through tuning ... IF ... you had the time, etc. There's nothing wrong with dampening drums. My point, at least, was that most people simple start dampening and muffling the drums to the point that they sound totally dead, and they are doing because:

 

• 
   
  
• They saw someone else do it.
  
• Someone told them to do it.
  or
  
• They've always done it.
   
  

 

 

The BIG difference here is using your EARS ... which many people do NOT do.

 

I think we are all in the same boat preaching the same message here.

[felix stein]

Shucks, I don't want to be in the same boat with you guys!

 

CAn't we dissagree on anything????

[rlhubley]

still no disagreement here.

 

Felix, what size drums do you use? Just wondering because I have power sizes as well. I usually use a 10X10 tom and a 13X14 tom, all maple shells. My only complaint is that it can be hard to get those big sizes in the most comfortable spots, esecially the 11X12 drum I have.

[Gaddabout]

Originally posted by k1neta:

I might actually try that out next time I do some studio work.

 

Another trick I learned recently is to record bass and snare open phase. Don't reverse phase your bass drum mic.

[Gaddabout]

Originally posted by felix stein:

If I had to critique my last gigs sound I'd say my toms were too open and I had some masking tape on all of them (GASP).

 

Dang, Felix, why don't you just turn them into power toms.

 

I think if I had a need for power toms in a big venue gig, I might consider thicker shells and *maybe* thicker heads. Not everyone has that kind of money, so I can understand case-specific use of dead rings and some tape.

 

Although, Felix, the way you accumulate gear, I bet your garage looks like a drum warehouse.

[sidereal]

Felix... what do you think of the Dave Matthews Band? I think they're swell.

[Gaddabout]

Originally posted by Gaddabout:

 

Dang, Felix, why don't you just turn them into concert toms.

 

I think if I had a need for power toms in a big venue gig, I might consider thicker shells and *maybe* thicker heads. Not everyone has that kind of money, so I can understand case-specific use of dead rings and some tape.

 

Although, Felix, the way you accumulate gear, I bet your garage looks like a drum warehouse.

[felix stein]

My point being the bigger the venue, the smaller the drums

[oyajipunk]

Before this thread drifts off in another direction, let me share this with you.

 

I had a recording engineer tell me once that you can't punch in when recording drum tracks. The resonance of the drums and cymbals forms a 'presence' throughout the whole track, and any interruption to this can always be picked up in the final mix.

 

That was in the days when digital recording was only for professionals, but I think what it is saying still applies today. Engineers acknowledge that resonance is part of a drum track, they just have different solutions to control it.

 

For live, don't trust anything you hear on a video unless it has been through the sound desk first. You get too much room noise from 'acoustic' recordings, no matter how good they are. I use videos to analyse my performance, more than my sound (and no, I don't pose for the camera).

 

Cheers.

[DrummerCafe]

Originally posted by oyajipunk:

I had a recording engineer tell me once that you can't punch in when recording drum tracks. The resonance of the drums and cymbals forms a 'presence' throughout the whole track, and any interruption to this can always be picked up in the final mix.

 

This really depends on when and where you punch. It can be done and I do it from time to time. The key is that you have to play with the same intensity as well as the same parts ... exactly. If you don't this, then yes, it doesn't work. One thing that I'm known for here in Dallas (so I'm told) is that I remember my parts and can reproduce what I just played ... if needed. To me, it's just about composing in my head as I play. I'm sure I would have to listen to the track again to refresh my memory if too much time went by.

 

Wish I could say that I never have to punch in, but I can't. I usually get stuff on the first or second take, but sometimes the producer may want a different fill, etc. Sometimes I have to re-cut my tracks because of the other player's screw-ups or their cool ideas that they want me to match.

 

Basically if you get the cymbals ringing properly, you can punch in without a hitch; plus there's always the cross-fade. For me, I'd rather re-cut the entire take, but sometimes that is not desired because of some cool spontaneous stuff.

 

Just my ninty-nine cent value meal.

[Prof.Sound]

Originally posted by oyajipunk:

I had a recording engineer tell me once that you can't punch in when recording drum tracks. The resonance of the drums and cymbals forms a 'presence' throughout the whole track, and any interruption to this can always be picked up in the final mix.

 

I have to say that that comment is nonsense. I have punched, and been punched more times than I can count. And you cannot hear the change in presence. Sure you can miss a beat here and there, but you just do it again. It all depends upon how consistent you are as a drummer. How you hit, where you hit, the dynamics of how you come into a fill, etc. If you put your all into it, you are also thinking of the consistency and know these things count. You just have to get a few measures playing into the punch and keep going out the other side, just as if it were the first take.

[sidereal]

Two words: Pro Tools.