sidereal Posted October 4, 2001 Share Posted October 4, 2001 Something my dad keeps asking me about: "Have you looked into joining any musician's unions?" Thought I'd ask you all... I know they exist, but I don't know much about them or who/what they are. Are there 'drummers unions' or just general musicians unions? What are the benefits? Will it help me get gigs, help to dig deeper into the scene, advise on proper payment, advise on rights and abuses, help in any legal issues? Are they national unions or local? (any in the San Fran bay area?) What are the monthly fees/obligations on my end? so many questions...... Just for the record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerCafe Posted October 4, 2001 Share Posted October 4, 2001 My experience is that they are a TOTAL waste of your money (and time). I've been a member of the American Federation of Musicians (AFM) for 10 years now, in both Tennesse and Texas. They do very little in the way of referrals, so don't get your hopes up. I keep meaning to quit but fail to remember to give 30 days notice so I can leave on Good Standing. The only real benefit is if you are with a national act that deals with a lot of contracts, or if you are with one of the major symphony orchestras. They can help with contracts and fighting legal battles over money, but that's about it. If you live in a Right to Work state like I do (Texas) you would be better off using your money to higher a manager or someone to solicate work for you. As far as other benefits, sure they have a credit union, health insurace, etc., but you can get better rates on your own and with other sources. I just tried to use the AFM Member Benefits to book a flight to Nashville for PASIC and I got a better rate using Expedia.com ... and it's FREE!!! If you do a lot of TV or Radio commercials, or if you are with a national act, I would consider it. I get an occasional gig from them, but it's not even enough to pay my annual dues! I would love to debate this topic with someone who is a avid AFM supporter. Bring it on and let's Rock-N-Roll!!!!!!! ------------------ Bart Elliott http://bartelliott.com Drummer Cafe - community drum & percussion forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModernDrummer Posted October 5, 2001 Share Posted October 5, 2001 LOL, well sorry, Bartman. I can't debate this one with ya, 'cause I completely agree with you! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif When I was a kid, my father insisted our group join the local Musician's Guild, as pop was a "devout" steel mill union worker. To be honest, I don't really remember how much the dues were, but I think it was set up as so much per gig. As we played regularly, I think it worked out at that time to about $40 per month per band member (circa 1966). However, in complete honesty, I can say I never saw, received or attained a SINGLE benefit from the Musician's Guild. And as soon as we were allowed to make our own decisions in such matters, we dropped the 'union' like a hot potato. I have NO clue what they COULD possibly do. They can't get you more $$$, in fact, union 'scale' was, and probably IS, pretty dismal. They MIGHT be able to step in and help negotiate / settle a wage dispute as Bart mentioned. We never had the need for that. We always arranged AHEAD of time to be payed right after the first half of the show. That way, if the club owner "hemmed and hawed" (which happened only once in ALL my 25 years of doing gigs) we simply got up on stage and told the audience we can't play any more 'cause the cheapskate owner didn't wanna pay us! LOL, after some audience booing (at the club owner) and audience threats to never return to his establishment, we were paid. 'Course, for some strange reason, we were never invited back there. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/frown.gif Awww, too bad for us, eh? To NOT get invited back to a place that didn't wanna pay us? Any way, I agree with Bartman, waste of money. Until they can guarantee something like better wages than you could get on your own, or REAL legal assistance, or MORE gigs or BETTER gigs at like larger forums or something, IMHO you're just throwing money away to join a musician's union. Just my thoughts. J.B. If you always do what you've always done, you'll always have what you've always had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumNerd Posted October 5, 2001 Share Posted October 5, 2001 I'm a member of the AFM in Nashville. But Bartman is right they do nothing to promote you. To be honest unless you are doing label or label publishing company sessions I wouldn't join. When i first moved to town I worked for 2 differnt publishing companies and some upstart labels. I had to join in order to get paid since everthing was on the card. It has it's benefits if you are doing these type of session since it guarantess you a payment, but then they take 3% of the total for procesing the payment. Hey Bartman. you think AFM is bad...have you messed with AFTRA at all? That is a frickin' joke! And a buket of fish! (out) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidereal Posted October 5, 2001 Author Share Posted October 5, 2001 Thanks guys.... I have literally zero knowledge on this, so your opinions are most welcome. Incidentally, I bring this up as I'm about to sign a very open-ended contract with the manager of one of the bands I play in (band contract, not individual)... so that was one of the reasons, but it would mostly be to help get more work, make contacts, and have a "family" of sorts for support. Sounds like it's a dubious arrangement for that sort of thing. MD.... sorry, but what the hell were you thinking? http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif with the club gig I mean, insisting on payment halfway through and getting the crowd angry at the owner. That's a great way to never get invited back. (sorry, I say this with a friendly jab... I was just amazed by the story. btw, yeah, my dad's dad was a steel worker in Ohio... bigtime union guy!) Just for the record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerCafe Posted October 5, 2001 Share Posted October 5, 2001 Well, unless someone can convince me otherwise, I'm going to quit the AFM before the end of this year. I'll be in good standing just incase I need to join for some silly reason. I'm thinking of relocating to Nashville, so it's good to hear (in a sick kind of way) that Nashville's chapter isn't any better off than the one here in Dallas. I was a member of the Chattanooga chapter while I was living there ... only because the society band I worked with on occasion demanded it. When I was working with Bill Tillman, we were all union members, but it didn't really help me as a player; it did help the band somewhat. So here's to you AFM ... an official Bartman salute! http://home.swbell.net/sondage/index_files/images/bartmoon.gif Drummer Cafe - community drum & percussion forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidereal Posted October 5, 2001 Author Share Posted October 5, 2001 HAHAHA! LOL, Bartman.... too much! Just for the record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlhubley Posted October 5, 2001 Share Posted October 5, 2001 I have no first hand experience with a union, but I do have some positive points a Union can offer, and usually does. But first of all I'd like to make a point. The purpose of the Union is NOT to promote or better your career, that's a manager's job. The union is supposed to help it's members, usually by offering things such as insurance(home, car, life, medical, instrument, disability, etc), credit union, pension,legal advice, fair wages(on union gigs via the scale), etc. With all of this in mind, the union will probably only help if you are in a Union town(L.A., NY, Nashville), because you have to get Unionized gigs to reap the benefits(although you can report your other gigs and work it out that way) Insurance is VERY important, and is often overlooked. Insurance is also quite expensive. The union would have access to a 'group' plan(probably an HMO, maybe a PPO) that otherwise would be very difficult for a musician to obtain, and would also be MUCH more expensive as an individual. Especially disability insurance. Here's a great example: You're at a gig and are done playing so you are breaking down your gear. As you lift that ridiculously heavy hardware case to put in your vehicle, BAM, you slip a disc. What do you do? A) you have health insurance, so you go to the doc, get drugs, therapy, etc. B) You don't have health insurance, so you scrounge up $50 dollars or so and go see a doc, who prescribes some expensive pain killers(which with insurance would only cost you $15) and physical therapy, which will cost the same as that new home studio setup you planned on building. Now that all of that is taken care via A or B, you try to get back to work to earn some $$$ to pay for all your living costs during all of that down time. As soon as you get behing your kit, you realize something doesn' feel right, in fact it is sever pain. YOU CAN'T PLAY DRUMS!! This is where disability kicks in. It will pay usually 60% of your income while you are out of work, even if it is indefinite. Therefore, you can still live near your usual level. My point is that the Union does have benefits, but you have to be earning your living via music for it to REALLy work for you. I am not doing this, nor am i in a "unionized" town, so I am not. I could go on for a while, but this is a good stopping point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerCafe Posted October 5, 2001 Share Posted October 5, 2001 well .... I had a long response all typed out ... rebutting some points ... it was great stuff ... but my %#@~& computer ate it. So you all lose. This isn't worth any more of my time. Sorry Drummer Cafe - community drum & percussion forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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