rlhubley Posted August 20, 2001 Share Posted August 20, 2001 I thought that it would be a good idea for us all to share how we go about networking. How to start networking, good and bad things to do when networking. I am semi-new to networking, so i don't have a lot to offer, but am ready to be taught! Here's what i do for now: Whenever i meet musicians i give them my card and always try to chat about music for a couple of minutes. I also try to keep the names and numbers, etc of everyone i play with, so that i can call them for future projects as well. Now, your turn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrthirsty Posted August 20, 2001 Share Posted August 20, 2001 Probably one of the best ways to network is to go to jam nights at a local bar or pub, this way you get to see a number of local musicians play as well as talk to them. It's amazing how much you can tell about certain people's attitudes and professionalism at a popular and well organised jam. For me personally, I'm at a point in my career where I just won't put up with any egos or what I like to call "status musicians"(people who can only talk about some high profile gig they did years ago or individuals that seemingly only play because they think the general puplic worships musicians) and these jams help me avoid making these mistakes as well as meeting really cool people. Another good way is to score some rehearsal space that rents seperate rooms to a number of bands, if this is available to you where you live take it, you'll have a place to practice as well as having a chance to meet other players that you may one day work with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidereal Posted August 20, 2001 Share Posted August 20, 2001 Be cool, not pushy Talk the talk and walk the walk (i.e. know what you're talking about, back up your claims, don't decieve, and let your performance speak more than your words) Always have a sense of humor I like honesty and directness more than anything. I like to know where I stand. I used to have issues with egos, but I don't care so much anymore. If someone walks up to me and says he's shit-hot on the guitar and that he wants to prove it, I'll have a conversation with him. It helps of course if it's done with confidence and with a sense of humor. Better those guys than the types who give me the creeps by kissing ass, being pushy, and handing out business cards. It comes off like you're desperate. Another key rule: In conversation, let them know what you will be providing them. Don't do the opposite, which is discuss what they will provide you. Just for the record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerCafe Posted August 21, 2001 Share Posted August 21, 2001 Here are my thoughts for what they are worth; they differ from some of the other opinions thus far. In the business world, forcing a business card on someone is a real no-no. I learned this years ago ... only after I have been passing out my cards like candy to would be Trick-or-Treaters. Only give someone your business card in the following situations: [*]They ask for your business card. [*]They ask for your phone number. [*]They mention at some point in time during a conversation that they want to be sure to get your phone number and/or email address. If you want to be pushy, show an appearance of disperation, or turn-off potential musicians that you would like to play with ... give them your card. A better approach to getting someone to take your card is to ask for theirs. LOL I've done it from time to time, and it works ... sometimes. I usually reserve this method for great musicians that I want to stay in touch with, who are walking out the door, never to be seen again. If you absolutely feel that you need to give them your card, and they have not asked for it, ask them (politely) if it would be okay to give them your card. If you are a good player, and if they are interested, they WILL ask for your card. To me, forcing the card on someone makes you look the fool. Believe me, they know you are forcing it on them; thinking in their minds that if they wanted your number, they would have asked for it. In these situations however, don't be surprized to find your business card on the ground just outside the club when you leave. Business cards are an important part of marketing yourself, but many people abuse them ... severly. They are really there as a courtesy to your potential clients or colleagues, so they don't have to mess with writing down all your info. DON'T SPAM!!! Use bulletin boards if you want to post your business cards. People that want your number or are looking for a drummer will find it there. Okay, my second point that I would like to make is that I have never found open jam sessions to be very effective in getting REAL work. I guess it all depends on the city and the type of music you are wanting to play. The type of musicians I usually find at the jam sessions are one of the following: [*]Those who can't find a gig because they can't play. [*]Those who think if they get $25 and all the beer they can drink they have it made. [*]Those that only play one style ... the blues. [*]All of the above. I rarely find great musicians at these jam sessions because they don't need the work ... so why would they go to a jam session? Now, before everyone starts dissing me, there are a few exceptions. If you can find a jam session that is hosted by a GREAT band ... GO!!! My earlier points were directed more towards "open" jams. Also, if you know some killer musicians are going to be at a particular jam, GO PLAY!!! Birds of a feather flock together. You need to hang out with musicians that are doing what YOU want to be doing. Let me say that again. You need to surround yourself with musicians who are already doing the very thing you want to be doing. If you want to play for $25 and all the beer you can drink, go hang out with people who do that. If you want to get a gig with cover band, go hang out with people who play in cover bands. If you want to be a fulltime professional player, you need to be hanging out with other fulltime professional players. Again, my statements about jam sessions are directed more towards the assumption that jam sessions are always worth your time. In general, I don't find that they are. But sometimes you don't know if they will be or not, so you have to go and see. Perhaps it's better to at least go and check out the scene; you can always split if it appears that it will be uneventful. If you are new in town, I would do all that you can until you find out who the top players are, and which ones are doing what it is you want to be doing. This is my opinion from my experiences; someone else may have landed a gig with Sting by going to a jam session ... who knows. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif ------------------ Bart Elliott http://bartelliott.com This message has been edited by Bartman on 08-20-2001 at 06:32 PM Drummer Cafe - community drum & percussion forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerCafe Posted August 21, 2001 Share Posted August 21, 2001 After reading my earlier post, it sounds like I'm thumbing my nose at ALL jam sessions or musicians who may play for $25 a night. Well ... I'm not doing that, so let me clarify a bit. I know *rlhubley* has goals to play fulltime; at least I think I remember him saying that. So my comments were directed towards his goals and networking, not towards someone elses goals or desires. I've played in plenty of jam sessions over the years and have spent all my life as a "student of networking" ... it's a HUGE part of being a musician. Like most professions ... it comes down to who you know and referrals. So, I just wanted you all to know that I wasn't totally shooting down jam sessions. Like I mentioned in my earlier post, it depends on the city, the area, the venue, the musicians, etc. Jam sessions can be fruitful for a player if the situation is right. In my experience, however, I never seemed to meet the right kind of people for the type of work I wanted ... which was to work with other fulltime professionals. The exception for me has been Jazz Jam sessions in which I always seem to meet at least one outstanding player. I didn't think we were discussing any specific styles so I didn't to include this. Drummer Cafe - community drum & percussion forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrthirsty Posted August 21, 2001 Share Posted August 21, 2001 I think Bart did bring up some good points about jams, in the city that I live in(Vancouver, B.C) there is really only one place that does have a jam night hosted by a pro. band that attracts working musicians and band leaders, but yes there are plenty of jams here that only attract hobby musicians who come to play when they get a few drinks in them. The best thing is like Bart said just check out the various jam nights in your area to see if it is a good networking tool, but unfortunately these can be few and far between. As for message boards on the internet I've found that most of the free sites are just crammed with ads for startup original bands wanting to be rock stars. If you are looking for more professional opportunities try some of the paying sites like musicians contact(I think it's $45 to join) or musicians national referral(I've never tried this one the membership is like $145 with a no refund policy, anyone used this service? was it worth it?) these are just 2 off the top of my head, I'm sure there are plenty more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian1642605905 Posted August 21, 2001 Share Posted August 21, 2001 I have always been in the "in crowd" of the musical community but now that I have relocated I'm Mr Nobody!What do you suggest that I do in order to avoid the rif raf all together and ease in to situations where I can meet quality musicians!Maybe it's the area I have moved to but I'm getting a bit frustrated with my search!I've jammed with some substandard musicians and I'm sure I came across as a jerk when I never called them back but I simply don't want to settle with a band in which I won't be fufilled being a member!Where do I concentrate my search and how do I approach without seeming desparate?(even though I am)It's like I was married for years and now I'm divorced and forgot how to ask a pretty girl for a date!LOL ian* ian* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerCafe Posted August 21, 2001 Share Posted August 21, 2001 I feel your pain Ian. Man, here's what I would do ... for what it's worth. I would seek out these musicians in as many creative ways as you can think of. Set your boundaries so you don't get pulled into something until you are ready. You know what I mean? Like ... let's say you get a referral from somebody and they give you this kat's name and number. You call him up and he's into hooking up with for a jam at his place and he wants you to lug your drums over. DON'T DO IT!!! Ask the guy a LOT of questions, like who has he played with, how long has he played, what are his favorite bands, etc. Then see if he is playing out someplace where you can swing by and make an assessment within 5 or 10 minutes. If he sucks, then you hit the door and move on. If he sounds good and you think you would like to take the next step ... then do so. I'm trying to save you all a lot of grief by getting stuck into situations that just eat up your time and energy. Before you give of yourself, do lots of homework on the individual and/or band; if you dig it ... then take a step towards jamming or working with them. Until you are certain, keep a healthy distance and don't let them rope you in with words. This day and age, I don't even let a demo tape influence me. With a little (or a lot) of time and a ProTools set-up ... the guy can sound like a pro. See them play LIVE and IN PERSON. When I go to check out potential bands, they don't know it, but I am auditioning them ... seeing if they are worthy of me! LOL http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif I find out how they run their set's and try to show up near the end (last 20 minutes) of their second set. This allows me to hear a few songs, which is all I need to make a decision. I hang out during their break to rap with them. If I'm not interested in working with them, I'll stay just long enough until they get through one or two songs of the third set ... then I SPLIT!!! If I like the group, I stay as long as is needed. It's been my experience that most bands looking for a drummer will ask me to sit-in for the next set (which would be the third set). If I'm interested in the band, I accept the invitation ... if I'm not interested ... I tell them that I can't stay and need to see a man about a horse. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Ian, when you are around other musicians, ask lots of questions, no matter if you think the suck or not. Ask them who the hot players are in town. Ask where these musicians play or what bands they work with. Hit all the music stores in town; ask around for the hot players and check out the bulletin board. Although the better players probably don't need to use the bulletin board, you may find their business card their for private instruction or studio work. Call recording studios. Find out where the premier clubs or concert halls are and go check out the band. Call the musicians union (if there is one) and see if you can get any leads. If their are good players in your area ... you will find out very quickly just by talking to every musician you come in contact with. Again, it's about finding the people who are already doing what you want to do. Hang out with them and you will find your Holy Grail. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/cool.gif ------------------ Bart Elliott http://bartelliott.com Drummer Cafe - community drum & percussion forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix stein Posted August 21, 2001 Share Posted August 21, 2001 Jam nights suck. I am thinking of doing one or two with our band this winter just to get in front of some bodies. Oh, those blues cats are just going to love us. NOT!!! felix's band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian1642605905 Posted August 22, 2001 Share Posted August 22, 2001 Bart you are wise beyond your years! Thanks for the pointers! I am really chomping at the bit to get back out there among the living but at the same time I'm dreading the starting over phase of it all! I guess anything worth doing is worth getting off my butt and putting some effort into... ian* ian* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerCafe Posted August 22, 2001 Share Posted August 22, 2001 Just had a real nice networking experience yesterday ... so I thought I'd share. I had two studio sessions yesterday; two separate studios. Left my house at 8am and didn't get home till 11:45pm ... and I'm exhausted! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Anyway, during the first session, I was tracking on percussion, Chet McCracken (Doobie Brothers drummer/songwriter) on drums. I noticed this guy came into the control room and hung out for awhile. He came out to introduce himself once I finished and asked for my business card. Said that he worked over at another studio. He liked my playing and asked me to stop by the studio sometime and he would get me plugged in. I think this is a great example of how to network; and I didn't have to do anything other than play the best I could, and try REAL hard to be a nice guy! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/cool.gif I'm slowly working my way to the top! ------------------ Bart Elliott http://bartelliott.com Drummer Cafe - community drum & percussion forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted August 22, 2001 Share Posted August 22, 2001 Ian, I hear ya. When I moved to Atlanta from L.A. I was in the same situation as you. In L.A. everybody knew me, knew how I played, had seen me live, and I pretty much knew who was good and who wasn't, of course. Here, I had to start over. I think the best thing you can do, for many reasons, is just go to the clubs and see as many bands as you can. Accept the fact that 90% of them are going to suck, and leave as quickly as possible when you find out they suck, so you don't get too burned out. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif With a little luck and persistence, you'll find some good bands and then you should make a point of talking to them and complimenting them on their work. Local bands appreciate that anyway. You can mention that you play drums but don't be too pushy about it. Mainly, make your presence known by showing up at as many of the good bands' gigs as you can, and also ask the musicians who else on the local scene is good. Once you start getting recommendations like that the signal-to-noise ratio should start going way up. You will probably find that there is a little community of good musicians in your town who are into the same types of music as you. Make it a point to hang with them socially, and eventually they will give you some opportunity - a party, jam session or what have you - to play with them. Then once they see you don't suck, they can start putting your name around. Plus, bands do break up or people quit, and if you're Johnny-on-the-spot with your favorite local band when their drummer quits, you're the first one they'll turn to. They'll already be used to having you around at their gigs and know you're into them and you get along. In fact, that's exactly what happened to ME, so I speak from experience there. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Of course I also don't know what you're looking for exactly in a gig. But that's a good starting point for meeting people. I might add that patience is a virtue here. It's a long hard process as you say, to start over, and you just have to accept that and trust that the right thing will come along and not get too discouraged in the meantime. --Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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