frozen_dup1 Posted August 5, 2001 Share Posted August 5, 2001 I have a Tama Rockstar kit. It's the first acoustic kit I've owned. I also have an electronic set (TD8 with Pintech silentec heads ) The recorded sound of the electronic is to unrealistic for me. I put on heads recommended from the dealer for my acoustic kit. The drum guy recommended Evans hydraulics. On George Massenbergs forum everybody seems to hate hydraulics for recording. I took the coated snare hydraulic off the snare and replaced it with a G2 coated. Didn't like that sound much. What heads do you guys use for recording toms and kick for rock? Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian1642605905 Posted August 6, 2001 Share Posted August 6, 2001 Toms: Aquarian Studio X Remo Powerstroke III or IV Kick: Aquarian Superkick 3 w/powerdot Remo Powerstroke III coated w/Falam Slam patch ian* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerCafe Posted August 6, 2001 Share Posted August 6, 2001 As most of you know, I'm a HUGE Aquarian drumhead fan. Evans makes a great drumhead too ... but the hydraulic heads are just too dated in my opinion. I NEVER liked them, and dislike the fact that they are still making those things. Man, cardboard boxes will sound just as good ... and they're a LOT cheaper. It all depends on the sound you want. A single-ply, coated head is going to give you lots of "crack" and attack and more over tons. Going with a two-ply head reduces the overtones and brings out the fundamental pitch; and if you are a heavy hitter ... the two-ply heads will last you longer. Be sure you try different tunings in different venues until you find the sound that is right for your drums (and your ear). Remember this is your FIRST acoustic kit, so you aren't used to tuning and/or playing behind an acoustic kit. Give it some time and have a few friends play on your drums a bit while you stand out front. This will give you a better idea of what your drums sound like to the audience. The little nuances (ie. overtones) won't reach the audience probably and actually play a part in the overall sound and sound transference. ------------------ Bart Elliott http://bartelliott.com Drummer Cafe - community drum & percussion forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidereal Posted August 6, 2001 Share Posted August 6, 2001 I'm going to have to take another look at these Aquarian heads. I tried one on the snare when Roy Haynes was pushing them at a music store about 8 years ago. I absolutely hated it. But maybe they've gotten better. I keep hearing great things these days. I've never found a reason to go with anything other than a coated ambassador on snare. Always have, probably always will. For toms, I like coated emperors. I mostly play rock, pop and funk, fwiw... I'm still using a Pinstripe on my kick. I don't know why. This is where I need to look into the Aquarians I think. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Just for the record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix stein Posted August 6, 2001 Share Posted August 6, 2001 Pinstripes on the toms Aquarian on the kick front and back Floor Tom? I don't know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whatever. There's a P3 on there now. I havn't decided if it will stay or not. YMMV felix's band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozen_dup1 Posted August 6, 2001 Author Share Posted August 6, 2001 Well, so much for the Evans hydraulics. Every time I recorded them I was getting a lifeless garbage can sound. That was what the drum guy recommended so I will be sure not to ask for any more recommendations from him. As for the Aquarian heads, I have never seen them in the store I deal with here in Toronto ( Long & Mcquade ). They only seem to have Evans and Remo. Bart, I had a drummer from a band come in and play the kit. He liked it, but he said I had the toms tuned way too high. I let him tune them and now I just tune them to the same pitch. I don't tune them to a specific pitch, I've heard that is something you do when you play a lot in one key. I'm a keyboard player and I play in a lot of different keys. My friend who plays lead guitar isn't that impressed when he has to play Eb+ though http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif. I just tune them in a descending order that sounds good to my ears. Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerCafe Posted August 6, 2001 Share Posted August 6, 2001 Brad, When I made the comment about tuning, I was referring more to the relationship between the top and bottom drumhead, as well as the tension around the drum ... lug to lug. I not worried about what pitches you choose for each drum. The concern is that you get each drum sounding GREAT on it's own ... BEFORE you worry about intervals from drum to drum. You may have to mail order the Aquarians if you can't find them in Canada. Sounds like the music store tried to clear their old stock by selling you those hydraulics. Can anyone confirm that Evans still makes those heads? Drummer Cafe - community drum & percussion forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian1642605905 Posted August 6, 2001 Share Posted August 6, 2001 Check out "Interstate Music Supply" (http://www.interstatemusic.com/) Request their drum/percussion catalog! They have the best selection of all of the major manufacturers that I've seen,and once you see their prices you'll never buy from your local dealer again! Another to check out is "Drums Etc."(http://www.drumsetc.com/)They also have good selection and prices! Bart the Evans Hydraulics are still widely available so I'd assume that they are still in production... ian* This message has been edited by ian* on 08-06-2001 at 10:28 AM ian* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModernDrummer Posted August 6, 2001 Share Posted August 6, 2001 Brad, You may also want to check out Midwest Percussion: www.midwestpercussion.com They've had about the best prices around. Not sure about costs shipping to Canada though. But you can e-mail them and inquire. As far as Hydraulics, like Bart said, it just depends on what you want. LOL, although I guess Bart doesn't like Hydraulics! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif I've had them before, they were fine. That was some years ago, now I use something different. Hey, I use to wear tight pants, now it's loose pants. Wide ties, skinny ties. Big sets, small sets. To each their own. Currently, I use Ebony Pinstripes for batters, Ambassadors for all resonant heads except bass (custom head) and snares (each snare has different heads). According to comments from other band members and audience folk, and my own opinion, they sound great live whether mic'd or un-mic'd, or recorded. However to me, the most important thing is that they sound the way I want my drums to sound when I hear them on playback or in the audience. Because what they sound like is a reflection of me, my style. Of what I want to try and communicate musically and the voice I want to use to communicate it. If you always do what you've always done, you'll always have what you've always had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozen_dup1 Posted August 6, 2001 Author Share Posted August 6, 2001 Bart, I have went to different drumsites to learn how to tune the drums. I use a hair dryer to warm the rim of the head before setting, tighten to take the wrinkles out then start opposite lug tuning. I hit around about an inch in from the lugs till I have an even sound. If any of this is wrong, or if there is a better way, please let me know. I'll ask around tomorrow, about the Aquarian heads, it's a long weekend here. Another thing, is the relationship between the top and bottom heads. With the hydraulics on top the resonating head has a much higher pitch on the bottom. Am I suppose to match the tone of the top to the bottom, even with hydraulics? If I try to match the tone to the top the bottom head is wrinkly. Moderndrummer, the only reason I was asking about hydraulics was because I have recorded them quite a few different ways eq's etc. and still sucks. I don't really know enough to say "ya, I need a warmer full sound with little or lots of overtones." Unfortunately it's going to be one of those hit and miss things. But with the aid of experienced drummers I will get the sound I want... Thanks for the quick response What are you guys on a long weekend down there also Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerCafe Posted August 6, 2001 Share Posted August 6, 2001 I don't know who's giving you the advice regarding the hair dryer http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/eek.gif and such ... but I've got to say (in the nicest way possible) ... they are absolutely NUTS! Using a hair dryer or any strong heat emitting device will break down the molecules in the mylar (which is the material used to make drumheads). Perhaps you misunderstood them or they are misinformed. A hair dryer is great for tightening up real SKIN (calf, goat, etc.) drumheads when they are tacked and have no other means of tightening or tuning. Great care must be taken when applying heat to a skin drumhead. I've got an article that I've written on this topic (see my web site). There are only a few instances when a hair dryer should (if ever) be used on a mylar drumhead. 1. When you HAVE to keep using the head you have and need to take out the dimples caused by a "monster" drummer. When you do this, you must use extreme caution and take your time. Once you've finished the procedure it will probably be the last time you can effectively use it on that drumhead. Multiple applications of the hair dryer will weaken the mylar to the point that it will thin/wrinkle/crack/split ... and sound like crap. 2. If you can't get the drumhead to seat properly on the drum ... and returning the DEFECTIVE drumhead is not an option. A good drumhead should NEVER have to have heat applied to it in order to get it to seat on the drum properly. If you do, then your drum is "out of round", needs to be "trued" or have new bearing edges cut. Perhaps the hair dryer technique is "needed" for the Evans hydraulic drumheads? If so, there's your answer .... DON'T USE THOSE HEADS!!! Once the drumhead is seated on the drum, tighten the tension rods enough so that the rim is snug (not tight) against the drumhead. Usually I just tighten until the tension rod washer is touching the rim of the drum. Tightening until all the wrinkles are gone PRIOR to using the "opposite lug tuning" is a BAD idea. Many drumheads (such as a two-ply head) are going to have wrinkles as you tighten and tune. Once you snug the rim down and the tension rods are ready to be tightened, push your fist into the drumhead. This forces the drumhead to seat around the bearing edge WHILE you tighten using the "opposite lug tuning". As the slack is taken out of the head and you are tightening it up evenly, the wrinkles will disappear. Once the drumhead is snug and well seated, you can stop/remove your fist from the head. Now finish by doing minor tuning adjustments until you get the pitch and/or tension you need. In regards to the head to head relationship (top and bottom heads)... you are NOT going to want them to be the same tension/pitch unless you want an old school jazz drum sound. There are only three ways to tune a drum. 1. Top head looser than the bottom head. 2. Top head tighter than the bottom head. 3. Both heads using the exact same tension. The vast majority of players today use technique number one. On tom toms for instance, the bottom head generates the pitch, the top head is adjusted for the feel, attack and sustain. The relationship of both heads will effect all of these areas ... so what I'm saying is just a basic analogy. Try using this tuning method on your toms: Tune the bottom head to the pitch you want for the drum; not too tight or high. Tune the top head so that the head is just tight enough so that there are no wrinkles. This is a great starting place ... so feel free to experiment from here. Depending on the depth and size of the drum, the relationship (interval) between the top and bottom head will vary. Hope this helps. I commend you on your efforts and hope that you will continue trying until you find the sound you want. Don't give up and don't take what anyone says as the "gospel" ... including me. Research, ask lots of questions and experiment; all of which you are currently doing. ------------------ Bart Elliott http://bartelliott.com Drummer Cafe - community drum & percussion forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidereal Posted August 7, 2001 Share Posted August 7, 2001 Am I the only one around here who hates tuning drums? It's so time consuming and an inexact science. I abhor it. It's almost as bad as finishing a gig and watching the guitar player walk away with his axe in one hand and his Pod in the other. "G'nite!" ....bastard. Just for the record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozen_dup1 Posted August 7, 2001 Author Share Posted August 7, 2001 I found the link to where I read about the hair dryer thing. I have also read about the fist on the head. With the new heads I get I will try that technique. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000292.html Brad 'the head melter' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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