Ross Brown Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Looks like we are heading to the studio in two weeks to make a demo for promoting the band. I have never been in the studio before but look forward to it. From my reading I have come to the conclusion that we want to record just a limited number of songs 3-7 and only put representative portions of the songs on the demo CDs. The purpose of the demo will be to include in the press pack to use to get gigs. The guitarist and I are working on putting this together, He suggested also that we dont want to record/use entire songs on the demo because they are cover songs and we should be careful due to copyright issues. What elements of creating a demo CD have you found to be important and successful (besides good music)? How many songs, how much of the songs, different versions of the demo for different purposes? Am I close in my thinking? I apologize if I should have just used the search function, but I wanted fresh answers and to share my excitement about this new stage of my musical career. "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky McDougall Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 We are getting ready to do a Demo CD also and only plan to record about 30 sec. of 5 or 6 songs. Rocky "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb, voting on what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb, contesting the vote." Benjamin Franklin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted September 5, 2006 Author Share Posted September 5, 2006 Wow. What made you decide on 30secs? Is that what folks want to hear? Just a sample? That short? Thanks. "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Short samples is a good idea. One verse of each song is perfect for a demo. Check out the samples on this band website . Since you are not selling the cd, you don't have to worry about copyrights. Good luck! Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted September 5, 2006 Author Share Posted September 5, 2006 jeremy... I wish we had a better singer... You are in a completely different league than I. So cool... Anyway. I like the short clips. It is enough to get the idea. I am sure that the guitarists will want to somehow showcase their blazing guitar work. Will be interesting. Thanks again. "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky McDougall Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 I think when you give out a demo CD the listener is not interested in the length of the song but quality and variety of the band. I think the short songs will be appreciated by the listener. Rocky "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb, voting on what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb, contesting the vote." Benjamin Franklin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky McDougall Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Originally posted by jeremy c: Check out the samples on this band website . Hey Jeremy, nice web site for City Lights. First time I have visited there. Very nicely done. Rocky "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb, voting on what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb, contesting the vote." Benjamin Franklin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davio Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Originally posted by Rocky3840: Originally posted by jeremy c: Check out the samples on this band website . Hey Jeremy, nice web site for City Lights. First time I have visited there. Very nicely done. Rocky +1 Janet's pic probably helps bring in the gigs as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric VB Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Hmm. Somewhere on the net is a blog-like account from a venue's booking guy that gives great tips as to what he looks for when deciding to book bands. If I happen to find it again I'll post it, but don't hold your breath. Thirty-second clips may work. Instead of using a verse, however, I'd suggest a clip that features the hook of the song, typically the chorus/refrain. In fact, leading into the chorus with the end of a verse may be even better to capture the "push" from the transition. Another idea would be to use "American Idol"-style clips. If you've never watched the show, they basically shorten a cover song by omitting a verse or two, intros, solos and what not to end up with something that is 1:30 to 2:00 in length (or whatever). It's like diet food: you swear you ate a whole meal but you still feel hungry and empty inside. Whatever you do, make sure each song is on a separate track! Even if the clips are short, whoever is listening to your CD may want to (and usually will) skip through the tracks instead of listening to the whole thing straight through. Don't make things hard for them! One problem with working with short clips is that it doesn't tell the listener that you can, in fact, play a whole song from start to end. If the listener likes what they're hearing, they may actually want to play the entire song. They can't do that if you only give them a short clip. Unless the venue has a reputation for featuring guitar virtuosos (most don't), don't waste everyone's time with a clip of just a guitar solo (no matter how amazing it may be). Chances are the listener isn't going to be following along with the printed track listing, so even a warning like "Song Title (guitar solo)" isn't going to help. If it's a cover song and the listener wants to hear the solo, they'll fast forward the track to get to "the good part". Some other things I seem to remember: * Three songs is plenty. This is probably all the listener is going to have time for anyway. If you include more songs, make sure your first three are your strongest; the rest of the disc may never get played. * Make sure your contact info is on the CD! The CD and printed promo material may become separated. Besides, there's the annoyance factor of having to sift through the promo packet to find the contact info. Make it easy for the booking agent! * Keep your promo pack reasonable. Remember the advice you were given in school about keeping your resume to one page? Think of it like that. The guy reading it doesn't have time for a novel of your personal history going all the way back to when you were an infant. An 8x10 pro photo and a brief one-page text should be more than sufficient. (We're a 3-piece rock band with a 3-hour playlist. We pull from a 200-song catalog of tunes to keep things fresh, mostly '80s punk to '90s grunge. Etc.) * Try to put yourself in the booking agent's shoes. They're looking for acts to fill in the blanks on the calendar. If you've only got one set's worth of material (an hour), you'll have to share a night with other bands that (hopefully) sound like you. Also, each night may have a different theme: metal, country, rap, rock, etc. Make sure they can easily figure out where to place you. (If Wednesday night is biker night, would you rather hire a variety band that plays everything from rap to country -- including some obscure show tunes -- or some hard rockers? Even if the variety band can rock out, it's not clear they'd be a good fit for the bikers.) * Just to reiterate, be sure to make things easy for the agent. Every time you annoy him, that's another mark against you. If it becomes too much of a hassle, he's going to pick another band that may not sound as good as you just because it was easier. He may only have half an hour to go through 30 submissions (or whatever). Time's a premium. He's not going to spend the entire half hour trying to figure you out from: a 3 CD set featuring 3 hours of your music, a 30-page comprehensive bio of the band and it's members, or nothing but a link to your uber-cool website. Other points: * You'd be breaking the copyright laws even by distributing a portion of a cover song. I'd trust Jeremy's insight on not worrying too much about copyright infringement for a demo CD. If you're still worried, make sure the CD is clearly labeled "Demo. Not for sale." or something similar. * Make sure you (and every band member) know your part 100% before stepping into the studio. You don't have time to waste once you get there trying to figure out how a song goes, who plays what, or going through 20 takes before you get it right. If your part is too hard to consistently nail in practice consider recording a simpler part just for the demo. If it's the signature part for the song, consider recording a different song instead. * Remember, this is the business end of the music business. Make sure you present yourself in a professional business manner. Pay attention to details. Check your spelling. It's not hard to get a free email address that is both relevant and business-like. Sure, you can stay true to your image and all that, but do you want to use lil_slugger_13@lollipop.net for your metal band? Do you want to brag on your MySpace page about how you trashed the last venue you played? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted September 5, 2006 Author Share Posted September 5, 2006 I am sharing your response with my band mates. Thank you for taking the time and energy to provide such a comprehensive response. I really, really appreciate your insight. RB "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicklab Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 RBG nailed a lot of the essentials for your package. Some additional notes? THE CD: Like everyone has said, 3 songs is plenty. Tailor the clips to suit the songs. If a song has a great hook then focus on that. Don't get hung up on an exact clip length like 30 seconds, focus on natural in and out points for each clip. Smoother editing will come across as more professional. Also make sure that whoever is handling your duplication will properly index each track with both your band's name and the song title. As for packaging for the CD? Save your money and just pack it in a generic jewel case. Doing elaborate packaging on the CD would be a wasted effort. Instead, make sure that you've got the essentials on the face of the disc. Those being: -BAND NAME -CONTACT INFO (phone, email, etc) -WEB ADDRESS -TRACK LISTING (with writing credits) -DEMO - FOR PROMOTIONAL USE ONLY PRESS KIT: The press kit could make or break your promotional package. Of course your music has to be good, but if it's sent in a slipshod manner then you could be shooting yourself in the foot from the outset. Working with a decent printshop on your press kit can be worth your while. The bio should be short and sweet. Especially for a cover band. The focus for a cover band should definitely be on your repertoire, what kind of show you put on and your gigging history. Include the clubs you've played as if it were a job resume. A photo. Hmmm, always a touchy subject. Get an 8 x 10" b&w photo of your band. I would opt for a shot of your band playing. The reason being that most band photos where they aren't playing look a little goofy, so spare yourselves that part. Now here's where things could get a little interesting. See if it's possible to get the following elements on your CD: your press kit photo as a JPEG and your band logo also as a JPEG. Having those elements in the digital domain as well as in print might help you with your promotional efforts. Obligatory Social Media Link "My concern is, and I have to, uh, check with my accountant, that this might bump me into a higher, uh, tax..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted September 5, 2006 Author Share Posted September 5, 2006 I am working on the content for the press pack now. Right now I am leaning toward a one page simple resume type. I like the idea of the JPEG logo/photo etc. A lot of bars and venues around here put the bands link and logo on their web sites (schedule). Many, many thanks. "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 We recorded live in the studio. Just started playing and stopped when someone dropped a clanger. (or admitted to it). Make sure everyone is 100% rehearsed. In one day (2-3 hours set up, 3 hours recording), we took away a rough mix of about 20 tunes in total each at least two verses and two choruses long. From that we selected 12 of the best, went back in to do a final mix and trim them down to what felt right, about 1 minute of each. The main problem we encountered was stress. The clock is ticking, the meter is running. If one member starts to get annoyed it puts everyone else off. Stay calm. We had a few songs with false starts and this seemed to make things worse. Agree a tempo and do rough recordings before you go to the studio to make sure that you are happy with the tempos. Take a metronome and start each tune off at the agreed tempo. You shouldn't need to play to a click track. Feel the groove internally within your own creativity. - fingertalkin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Capasso Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 From reading the posts above, I feel the need to emphasize the difference between what goes in the press kit and what you do in the studio. 3 songs might be great for a press kit, but you should probably go into the studio planning on doing more in case there's a problem with one of your "first" three. Making a "live" recording in the studio offers the band an opportunity to record the full song for your own posterity. We did that, and it was great. From that, I selected snippets that showed the different strengths that were in our work - good guitar solo here, nice vocal there, etc. I selected those from the final mix - I don't think we could have recorded 30-60 seconds of a song with the same intensity that a full song brings (we could probably do the beginnings, but I wanted to show more than that). Listen to our demos (see link below). Along with our website snipptes, you can hear four of our full songs are up on myspace: www.myspace.com/stoneflyband As to the recording, there is a disgusting amount of detail posted HERE - Click Me We weren't as prolific as TimR. We did 15 songs in 6 hours without background vocals. Another hour later we were done with the recording. The mixdown took another 5 hours with a combination of EQ, levels, and a few Protools edits. I also feel that playing as a band helped reduce the nerves a bit. All of the songs were done in 3 takes or less. We had actually prepared 10 songs, and tried a few others with the "extra" time. Some of them had noteworthy mistakes in them but there were also snippets that could be used. Best of luck on doing this - to Ross and Rocky! Tom www.stoneflyrocks.com Acoustic Color Be practical as well as generous in your ideals. Keep your eyes on the stars and keep your feet on the ground. - Theodore Roosevelt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 The recordings I showed were done totally the opposite way as Mr. Capasso and TimR did theirs. No one was in the studio at the same time. I was usually first, recording my bass parts to a click track. Other people came in as their schedules allowed and overdubbed their parts. It would be way too difficult to find a time when everyone could be there at the same time. It's hard enough to get the same people every time for our well-paying gigs. That's why there are so many pictures on the website. Getting a live mix would also take a lot of time. Usually I knocked out a half dozen bass parts in an hour or two. Recording one person at a time actually makes it easier because you don't have to stop and say, "is everyone happy with that take?" and then someone says, "let's hear it." Paying for studio time was not an issue since one of the guys owns a recording studio. People time was the biggest issue: everyone has very full schedules. Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Daddy from Motown Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 Jeremy great job on Ain't no Mountain High Enough. Nice to hear someone actually playing the tune who remember's some of the Jamerson licks. I saw the Temptations review this weekend and the bass player (who was a funk master) didn't play any of the original Jamerson parts at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picker Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 From what I have heard and remember, brevity is the ticket on promotional materials, particularly if you are trying to give them to busy bar owners, booking agents, etc. They have seen & heard it all before, and they won't spend much time reading and listening. In the words of Frank Zappa, to them you're a clown in a spiked dog collar. Most of them won't care if you play Native American folk tunes in the original languages or have every lick of every song you play down cold, as long as you make them money. If you wanna impress them, figure out a way to show them that you pack out the places you play with people who buy whatever they sel. That is what they they hire you for in the first place. Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 Originally posted by Big Daddy from Motown: Jeremy great job on Ain't no Mountain High Enough. Nice to hear someone actually playing the tune who remembers some of the Jamerson licks. I was reading the transcription from the Standing in the Shadows of Motown book. Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Daddy from Motown Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 That works for me! That's one of the ones I learned once upon a time, I'm still trying to play it as good as James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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