Ampeg B15 (B12)

[tucker71]

Anybody hear actually using an Ampeg B15 (or B12) out in the real world?

 

How does it sound? Does it have any throw.

[g.]

Throw doesn't have much to do with direct radiator systems. SPL falls off roughly inverse to the distance. That's a given. Only interaction with room modes (often called standing waves) and polar response (not especially applicable to sub-200Hz frequencies) can fool one.

 

Throw is still mentioned occasionally in SR circles when talking about whether HORN-loaded components (not direct radiator) are on a narrow dispersion or a wide dispersion horn.

 

C Alex? Bueller?

[tucker71]

I used the wrong terminolgy.

 

I just wanted to know if B15 fliptop can move some air around.

I've heard that amp on a million recordings, don't really see out there on the road too much.

[jeremy c]

I sold mine in 1970.

 

It wasn't loud enough to use on gigs.

 

I've never regretted selling it, either.

[g.]

Yep. Just a quick look at the wattage and the speaker spec would pretty much tell one that it's not a giggin' rig anyway.

 

They are fun to play with, and the V-Bass version is equally fun, with the benefit that it can be used to drive a Mothra rig while doing it : }

[dcr]

Yeah, but you stick an SM57 in the cone...

 

Seriously, this would still, I'd think, be a great amp for recording. Even so, it's far from the only sort of amp that will give a respectable vintage "thump."

[g.]

I use that model a lot on my V-Bass. Not only does it get "thump" - you can get a nice boxy nastiness out of it. It'd be great to record.

[cloclo]

the only experience i have is with this:

 

http://www.jo-co.be/langshier/b2.jpg

 

based on the ampeg fliptop but with more wattage. i've been playing on it for about 3 years now (when i'm at that studio that is) and i find it very difficult to let it stand out in the mix. don't get me wrong, it is very VERY deep (and loud!) and round but sometimes it has too much undefined earthquake rumble going on. i love the old tubesound but not if it's too undefined.

[g.]

It's easy enough to dial that out. I think that's what the knobs are for ; } ...Anyway, it'll sit in the mix with a band very well if mixed correctly.

[g.]

I should append that: the modern bass sound is really a lot better damped and it's solid state. The fliptop sound has a lot of overhang and needs to be EQ'd correctly to compensate/minimize if you are used to the cleaner sound we hear so often, especially with Fives and up. Mixing the cab sound with DI really helps too.

[cloclo]

thanks for pointing that out.

[g.]

Well, if that thing is anything like the fliptop I had at my first studio in Seattle, I love it. I hope you can get a lot of use out of it. I should google for that and learn more.

[57pbass]

I saw the band Stuff a few times at The Bottom Line and My Fathers Place in NY.

He used a B-15 miked with a P Bass.

A few times he was competing with Steve Gadd and Chris Parker on drums... his bass sounded great. I guess that was due to a great PA and monitor system.

Guitar Player did a profile on him and he said he used to put a tear into the speaker to give it some distortion??

[g.]

That's an old trick from the early days of electric blues/rock'n'roll. Guitar Slim used to do that, according to a book by Frank Zappa.

[g.]

Ah, googled up your old thread, cloclo, from when I wasn't around. But so far, it looks like Bluetone must have discontinued this model and is doing tube simulating guitar stuff. So no fun facts on bassin' ; {

[cloclo]

actually that fliptop i mentioned was made by a local amp-builder who also works as an amp-repair-guy for guitar shops. he just makes one once in a while for friends or friends of friends. on a very small scale. he also plays double bass in a bluesband so i guess that's where the name came from.

 

he doesn't have a business doing it nor is he advertising it so i guess it doesn't hurt to have the same name as a real company. it's just a hobby/passion of his.

[Fred TBP]

Originally posted by tucker71:

I used the wrong terminolgy.

 

I just wanted to know if B15 fliptop can move some air around.

I've heard that amp on a million recordings, don't really see out there on the road too much.

I used my friend's (his is from the early 70s and had a Peavey Black Widow 15" in it as the original speaker hadn't been reconed yet) at an open mike night a month ago. IMHO it's loud enough to keep up with a drummer, keyboard player, two guitarists and some mikes into a 400 watt PA system. (yours must've been in need of some fixin' up, jeremy ) but very bassy and boomy as tube amps tend to sound to me. Very much a "one-trick pony" in that it is "THAT 60S SOUND" that it does very well (short of an SVT) but harder to work into more modern forms of playing (slapping) as the top end tended to get muddied. (to be fair, the amp had a hum which made me turn down the treble to 9 o'clock)

 

You don't see them out there much because: (a) they're heavy (I don't know how my friend lugs that around and still maintains a beer belly ), (b) they're expensive to maintain (I think his last tube-cap repair cost him around $200), © they're hot on the vintage market (a local store in my area turned down $1,500 for their late-60s model), (d) that classic "diamond" pattern vinyl rips easy and it takes too much work (IMHO) to strip down and replace the vinyl on a cabinet, and most important, (e) because there's other brands that are cheaper, lighter and more tone-versatile than the B15.

 

Still, the old pony's got MAJOR MOJO!

(especially with a fretless bass!)

[g.]

Are you talking the original 35-watter (and that's at like 10 or 20% THD), or the 100-watt reissue of 1997? Was there some other reissue with wattage higher than 35? Man, you must have some whimpy drummers in those parts. And I know that's not the case.

[jeremy c]

I think there was a 30 watt version and a 60 watt version. Mine was called a B-15N and dated from sometime in the mid-60's...I bought it used in '67.

 

It was not keeping up with a trio that I played with.

 

Recently I played a B-12 that a friend of mine has for sale. We had it up on eBay for a while and in my signature but we got no offers.

 

It sounded nice for low volumes, very old-school: no highs at all, no deep lows, just a pleasant low thump.

 

I still don't want one and I think it's a totally inadequate amp for today's requirements.

 

In the studio it gives one useful sound which can probably arrived at by other means rather than having an old quirky amp sitting in a corner.

[Big Daddy from Motown]

It was a long time ago but I had a B15 loaded with a JBL D140. I left it in the trunk of my 71 volvo for about a year and a half, using it every weekend for Wedding and party gigs. It wasn't very loud but it was reliable!. As I recall it was rated at 40 watts. The B18 w/6550 tubes was rated at 60 watts. I had one of those too.

 

A buddy of mine still uses a B15 for upright mostly; i've jammed with him and it's about as loud as a SWR workingsmans 12.

[g.]

Also note in the past few posts here the wide discrepancy of wattage ratings for the lower-power version, from 30 to 40 (45?) watts. I notice that a lot in the tube guitar head/combo world. Given the same set of power tubes, I think there are two main variables that can affect a power spec: the amount of THD (total harmonic distortion), and the output transformer used. But then, I've seen amps with exactly the same tube set and same model of transformer claim anywhere from 50 to 65 or more watts.

 

There are roughly just a few power classes for tube heads using readily-available tube families, and when you go from one class to the next you are usually seeing a doubling of the number of power tubes used in the design - though in a few cases the design is built around tubes with twice the rating.

[g.]

From the Unoffical Ampeg Site:

 

# B-15N   * 2 channels   * 3 inputs (mid-60s) 4 inputs (late-60s)   * One heavy-duty 15" speaker   * 25 watts (early 60s), 30 watts RMS, 69 watts peak (mid-60s)   * 3-6SL7, 2-6L6, 1-5AR4   * 66 lbs., 21 x 21-3/4 x 14-1/2 (early 60s); 76 lbs., 21 x 21 x 14-1/2 (mid-60s)   * $355.00 (early 60s), $399.50 (mid-60s) # B-15NC   * 2 channels   * 3 inputs   * Two heavy-duty 15" speakers   * 50 watts RMS, 115 watts peak   * 127 lbs., 39 x 21 x 14-1/4   * $529.50 # B-15S   * 2 channels   * 4 inputs   * One 15" speaker   * 60 watts RMS, 138 watts peak   * 2-12AX7, 1-12DW7, 1-12AU7, 2-7027   * 105 lbs., 24 x 26 x 15-3/4 # B-15X   * 2 channels   * 4 inputs   * One 15" speaker, one high compression horn, two reverb speakers   * vibrato, reverb   * 50 watts   * 94 lbs., 24 x 30 x 15

 

[Fred TBP]

Originally posted by greenboy:

Are you talking the original 35-watter (and that's at like 10 or 20% THD), or the 100-watt reissue of 1997? Was there some other reissue with wattage higher than 35? Man, you must have some whimpy drummers in those parts. And I know that's not the case.

I'll have to get back to you on that. Hopefully he'll let me examine his amp this weekend. It's definitely not a reissue and I think he uses 6550s in the power section.

 

Actually most of the drummers that show up for open mike nights are either one-trick ponies from other bands or are just up there because their friends talked them into it. (last month's crew) Usually I call up a drummer I know to go onstage with me, but my regular guy's recuperating from hip surgery and should be available in a few weeks. Nearly everyone else is working in other bands or driving their significant others through the malls.

[g.]

Well, as above data implies, ratings for even a single model variant with the same tube family are all over the map, and a google reveals more of the same.

[dcr]

127 lbs. for a 50 watt cab...the question answers itself.

 

'Course, if it just always sat in one spot in the studio, miked up...

[tucker71]

Ideally, I would take my Traynor and my In-Ears on the road...and leave the B15 in the studio.

 

eBay...here I come.

[ArwinH]

Hey there Tucker,

Did you end up taking the plunge with the traynor?

[tucker71]

Yup.

I rented that Traynor rig and fell in love.

 

I have since rented it again, and used it for one week (two rehearsals and two shows).

 

Since then, I have purchased that (identical) rig but, haven't actually used it. I am going to be using it for a permanant gig in LA. I wont be lifting it...which is cool.

And I will continue to use my In-Ears as well.

[ArwinH]

Where is this gig in La and when is it. I'd love to come down and hear you play!

[tucker71]

Cool! Thanks.

Any and all info will be posted HERE.

 

The location is still TBD. Might be in LA. Might be in Vegas....

 

See you there!