"Fender Dead spots" are history

[Big Daddy from Motown]

For those of you who might be interested, The dreaded "fender dead spots" are a thing of the past. Most Fender American made basses have carbon graphite coated maple rods under the finger board. These rods change the resonant frequency of the necks and eliminate the dead spot. They also help keep the neck nice and straight.

 

I've got two P basses with the rods and both are very even up and down the neck.

 

The Fender catalog (or web site)tells you which basses have the rods.

[getz out]

It helps, but it doesn't cure the ill. With a maple bold on neck, you'll never get rid of dead spots. This is especially true with one-piece maple necks.

 

Those graphite rods help, for certain, but it is not as effective as multilaminate, dense hardwood necks. My Warwick neck-through is a 9-piece neck with ovankol and ebony stringers. The fact that it is a neck through means you get nearly zero sympathetic resonance with the body. It is even.

 

My American Fender Deluxe Jazz 5 has graphite rods. Dead spot in the classic position.

 

But you take the good with the bad. There is an inherent sound of a maple neck that a lot of people associate with a classic tone.

[Fred TBP]

Maury, you'd be happy to know that Carl Thompson agreed with you in this interview.

It's about a quarter of the way down, but the other stuff is pretty interesting, too. You might enjoy reading through it all.

[getz out]

 

Carl Thompson is allowed to agree with me, Fred. But I'm not sure that he does based on his responses. It is hard to make a lot of sense out of what he says, but people sure do like his basses.

 

Upright-like-scale on a bass guitar, though? Sheesh!

[Big Daddy from Motown]

Actually what Carl thompson doesn't like is all graphite non adjustable necks, (can you say Modulus? sure you can) this has nothing to do with adjustable graphite reinforced necks.

 

Carl also likes Maple necks.

 

However the real concern is the sound and it is better: more evenly voiced, with a cleaner low end.

[getz out]

Originally posted by Big Daddy from Motown:

However the real concern is the sound and it is better: more evenly voiced, with a cleaner low end.

That is debatable; it is different, but I would hesitate to say better.

 

What you describe as more evenly voiced and cleaner low-end is actually higher harmonics and the familiar sound of a Fender that we have been trained to respond to due to their ubiquitous nature. It does not get more even or clean than a graphite neck, but clean and even does not equal pleasing.

[jeremy c]

I suppose the only real way to get rid of dead spots would be to use a graphite neck or possibly a multi-laminate neck.

 

The multi-laminate neck might be iffy and I suppose it would depend on the care with which the neck were made.

 

The same would be true of a piece of maple. If the wood were carefully chosen you could probably come up with a neck with minimal dead spots. That's why some of us buy custom made Fender-style basses. They don't come off an assembly line and if the builder doesn't like the result, hopefully he will start over.

 

Some graphite necks are adjustable, some aren't.

 

I don't think I'd buy a non-adjustable one, I have found that graphite necks aren't as stable as they are cracked up to be.....they seem to be very temperature sensitive, much more than wood.

 

That's one reason why I sold my Zon.

 

Graphite necks are made by Modulus, Basslab, Zon, Status, Moses, Steinberger and probably more companies that I don't know about.

 

Many, many people are putting graphite reinforcemnet rods into bass necks these days and they have doing this for a while.

[tnb]

My beloved Sadowsky has no dead spots. Single piece maple on maple.

 

More of Roger's voodoo? Or am I just lucky?

[Prague]

"Fender" is not the only bass with dead spots. It just happens to be the most successful bass manufacturer.

 

I've played basses where the ENTIRE bass was a dead spot!

 

My 1977 P-bass never had them. I learned to keep everything tightened up, though.

 

However, my 1999 and a 2001 Jazz that I played didn't have them either. I would think the graphite does prevent the problem, whether it would have been there or not.

[groover]

My ultra cheap OLP MM3 doesn't have any dead spots, but my MIJ P-bass has a couple plus a wolf tone around the 10th fret. IMHO, I think that Fender's seem to be more prone to these problems, but i'm not really sure why. I don't think that any one solution (i.e. graphite reinforcement, multi laminate neck, neck through, etc.) is the ultimate cure, there are many other variables involved.

 

If you got two P-basses with no dead spots, then you are a blessed man.

[getz out]

Originally posted by tnb:

My beloved Sadowsky has no dead spots. Single piece maple on maple.

 

More of Roger's voodoo? Or am I just lucky?

If you mean Roger's voodoo being time and care in selecting the right neck for the right body, then yes. If you slapped the Sadowsky neck on another body, all other things equal, you may very well have some dead notes.

 

And yes, you are luck for having such a fine instrument.

[dcr]

The only bass I've ever had without a dead spot is my Rickenbacker 4003. Mass produced, 1-piece neck, but neck through, with graphite reinforcement (and two truss rods, btw). Also the most stable neck. I haven't adjusted it in about 6 years (in which time I moved from AZ to KS), and it hasn't shifted at all.

[LizzyD]

I didn't even know what a dead spot was until I found one on a Carvin multi-laminate neck-through 5 string a few years ago. I returned it to them and they built me another that had a dead spot too, but not nearly as bad.

 

My US Fenders with graphite rods have dead spots, so does my MIJ Geddy Lee Jazz. I just sold a Pedulla Rapture 5 string with a one piece maple neck that had one in the usual place. Even my multi-laminate Roscoe has one, but it is minimal.

[moot]

All my basses past and present have dead spots except, suprisingly enough, my most inexpensive and beloved Rogue LB405HR. Oh, how I love it!

[Bass_god_offspring]

i'm gonna take a guess, and say that a dead spot is a place on the neck where the volume is unequal, as opposed to the rest of the neck?

 

where on the fender website is this info btw?

[getz out]

BGO,

 

You are correct.

 

A dead note is caused by sympathetic response of the material to which the strings are anchored (the witness points, the nut and the bridge saddles).

 

There is no way to eliminate dead spots; no matter what you do, whatever those things are anchored to will resonate. It is just the way things are.

 

However, there are things that can be done to reduce the noticable dead notes. I mentioned some; multilaminate neck-through and graphite material help in most cases. However, Lizzy did bring to point the fact that it doesn't always work.

 

However, multilaminate is in general the easiest way to make something more stiff. It is the same reason that bass-producing speaker cabinets have a better response when they are made of plywood rather than solid hardwood. A solid piece of pine doesn't stand a chance in hell against a quailty piece of ply when it comes to strenght of material.

 

Plenty of other things factor. Bridge mass. Nut. Total neck mass. Strings. Everything.

[jeremy c]

Fender isn't going to mention this on their website....it's a design flaw in their instruments.

 

The most common place for a dead note (and I'm sure you'll all correct me if I'm wrong) is D on the G string.

[dcr]

I don't think of dead spots as volume issues as much as sustain issues. The note tends to decay more rapidly than other notes on the instrument. (As Jeremy said, you can usually educate yourself on this pretty quickly by pulling down any Fender & playing somewhere between C & D on the G string.) Of course, the note's rapid decay translates into a rapid drop in volume, as well. As Getz said, the resonance soaks up too much of the string's energy at certain frequencies, & the string stops vibrating too soon.

 

Fortunately, you can play those notes between the 10th & 12th frets on the D string, too.

[ATM]

I keep hearing talk of these dead spots. Glad I haven't come across them on my basses.

 

ATM

[Bass_god_offspring]

The most common place for a dead note (and I'm sure you'll all correct me if I'm wrong) is D on the G string.

 

so.......for us who don't read music, what fret is that? (i'm gonna guess and say 5th?)

 

 

i dunno if my Fender has "dead spots". it was made in 2002. if it does, i've never noticed it before.

 

 

[ATM]

Originally posted by Bass_god_offspring:

so.......for us who don't read music, what fret is that? (i'm gonna guess and say 5th?)

G=0

G#=1

A=2

Bb=3

B=4

C=5

C#=6

D=7

 

No notation needed. Dude, you have to get away from tab.

 

ATM

[Bass_god_offspring]

No notation needed. Dude, you have to get away from tab.

oooo, so close. my instinct told me that it was 7, but then i put 5 becuase i thought about the fact that open D = G 5th.

 

as for tabs, i don't really Rely to much on tabs.

 

just to learn songs, i'm mainly a by ear kinda guy.

 

besides, Duke Ellington was self taught, and there wasn't anything wrong with him.

[dcr]

Alrighty, then! Now all you need is Duke Ellington's talent, & you're all set.

[jeremy c]

Here is a picture of Duke Ellington.

It sure looks like he is writing music, actual notes on a piece of paper.

http://freddywarren.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/jazz/a-g/imgs/Duke%20Ellington2.jpg

 

Now, back to your regularly scheduled discussion of dead spots.

[Bass_god_offspring]

well true, but while he was younger he was a

 

"Largely self taught musican. He developed his skills playing at family socials"

 

so my reference was mainly toward his earlier years, since i am still in my "early years"

 

[Whacked]

my MIM Jazz fretless has the dead spot, but was greatly reduced when I slapped on the badass 2 bridge. Only becomes noticeable when the strings start to go.

My Ibanez is great, no dead spot there.

 

Like DCR said, dont like that dead spot there is the D string

[Big Daddy from Motown]

Originally posted by Big Daddy from Motown:

 

However the real concern is the sound and it is better: more evenly voiced, with a cleaner low end.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Originally posted by Big Daddy from Getz 76:

That is debatable; it is different, but I would hesitate to say better.

 

What you describe as more evenly voiced and cleaner low-end is actually higher harmonics and the familiar sound of a Fender that we have been trained to respond to due to their ubiquitous nature. It does not get more even or clean than a graphite neck, but clean and even does not equal pleasing.

______________________________________________

 

Getz I'm not talking about a graphite replacement neck but the regular reinforced neck on american standard basses.

 

"More evenly voiced " means that the notes going up the neck on a given string are very close to being the same volume. as opposed to a "dead spot" that is noticeably softer in volume and shorter in sustain.

"Cleaner low end" means more fundemental and less higer order harmonics on the low E string below Ab.

 

My point of reference for all this would be a 64 P bass and a 65 Jazz. Both of which have dead spots, E and Db respectively.

[getz out]

Got it; comparing a old Fender neck to a new Fender neck.

[tarkus]

I have a maple neck (fretboard) fender J american.

 

No dead spots whatsoever.