musicfiend Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 Theyve been out of business for a long time, theyre just coming back into business right now. I would really consider waiting however, if you go ahead and buy a 200 watt combo to fight 100 watts of tube geetar power you still will not be hearing yourself, and youll have lost alot of money on account of depreciation. I would suggest doing it right the first time. Also if you have parents willing to cover half the amp you will not have to save that much more moneyto get a much nicer amp. Itll make your life easier in the long run. Hiram Bullock thinks I like the band volume too soft (but he plays guitar). Joe Sample thinks I like it way too loud (but he plays piano). -Marcus Miller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kosta Posted April 28, 2005 Author Share Posted April 28, 2005 How come they went out of business, and are the new ones up to par or the old ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getz out Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 Why is your guitarist playing through a 100-watt guitar amp for rehearsal? My guitarist plays most shows with a 15-watt 1x12" combo. Most shows I go through a PA, but the stage amp is rarely bigger than a 2x10". How big are the venues you are playing? However, bikertrash is right; without PA support you will not be able to compete with a 100-watt guitar amp without some speakers behind you, partially due to the fact that the drummer will be wailing away at the drums to be heard over the said guitar amp. And wear earplugs, kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicfiend Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 No real clue man, I really don't know too much about them.Other than I still saw adds from them in, like, 2000-2001. Couple that with the fact that tony levin played em..and thats all i know....oh ya theyre green..that all the wealth of info I have. I belive that the trace guys were originally from marshall. And also, right now trace is being distributed by peavey, and right now peavey is making some good stuff and laying down a better foundation than ever before. Hiram Bullock thinks I like the band volume too soft (but he plays guitar). Joe Sample thinks I like it way too loud (but he plays piano). -Marcus Miller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kosta Posted April 28, 2005 Author Share Posted April 28, 2005 And wear earplugs, kid.But i am young and invincible! The venues we are playing are nothing too extravegant, as with the new band we have our first gig on the 7th. I will probably use the venue's system (the kathedral in toronto). I just need some quality ampage for jamming and so forth at my friends house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicfiend Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 So outta curiousity, why did your guitar playing friend buy a hundred watt amp? Hiram Bullock thinks I like the band volume too soft (but he plays guitar). Joe Sample thinks I like it way too loud (but he plays piano). -Marcus Miller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twentyamptwist Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 I agree to wait for some more dough. Yorkville is pretty good lower end gear that is pretty reliable. Although I've never been a fan of Yorkville (or Peavey - with the exception of Media Matrix, which is excellent), I've had to work with Yorkville PA gear on many, many occasions in my career. When you're one of the cheapest producers, your stuff gets around. It would not be my choice, period, for any live PA work. C'est la vie! I would personally wait to invest in a better quality system that you could build up to. CAN$850 is not gonna get you a whole lot of anything. In this game, loud = physical amp power + physical cabinets. Start with a nice head like a SWR 350X (tube pre), GK 700rb (solid state) or Aguilar AG500 (solid state). The solid state heads tend to be cheaper and more reliable, and they do sound very very good (although Aguilar is high end). When you can tell the diff between a tube head and solid state head blindfolded and by ear, come talk to me The head will be the best investment as this is where most of your tone will come from. Next, i would recommend a 12" cab, not a 15". You will get the low end you need from a quality 12", plus not need as much power ($$$) to drive a 12" as it would take for a 15" (and a 15 needs alot of juice to sound good). After that, when cash permits, add a 2x10, 2 2x10s or a 4x10 (approx $500, $1000, and $1000, in order). A GK 700 and Aguilar GS112 will run you approx CAN$1500 new. The AG500/GS112 is more (approx $2000 - and so much more head - 500W into 4ohms!) and the 350X/GS112 will run you about CAN$1500 as well. I have a GK 400rb and my buddy has a 350X and we are both very happy with these, although we do realize their limits. My recommendation would be to save for the Aguilar rig. You're almost half way there! At this price point you will be getting some quality gear that will grow with you. Try renting something like this setup and try it out while you save! Again, resist the urge to blow your dough on some cheap gear that will never perform like you want it to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicfiend Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 instead of 500 watts and a 112 to fight off 100 watts of fuitar I would recommend a 700-800 watt head and a 410 for more volume and some headroom as well. Hiram Bullock thinks I like the band volume too soft (but he plays guitar). Joe Sample thinks I like it way too loud (but he plays piano). -Marcus Miller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twentyamptwist Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 A while back there you recommended a 400W head. Now 700-800W? I would recommend a bank loan.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicfiend Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 I recommended a 400 watt amp because it will be enough, after playing against the same 100 watt half stack with 400 watts and then 800 watts I'll say the difference in headroom is much greater than the difference in price. An by the way 800 watts is NOT 2x louder than 400 watts, just in case you didn't know. Hiram Bullock thinks I like the band volume too soft (but he plays guitar). Joe Sample thinks I like it way too loud (but he plays piano). -Marcus Miller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twentyamptwist Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 If you re-read my post on page 1 of this thread you will see that I fully understand that 800W is not 2X louder than 400W. It is 3dB louder than 400W. It was the subject of most of my post. I am an audio engineer and fully understand these concepts of audio theory. Point is, obviously 800W is more power than 400W and 1200W is more than 800W. kosta started at a 200W Yorkville and has 800 bucks to spend. You're into $2500 bucks now for a head and cab.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicfiend Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 sorry that i missed that fact, i wasnt asuming you wouldnt know i was just putting it out there for kosta. But i feel on the used market kosta CAN find a nice rig with a 410 cab and 700-800 watt head for 100 bucka usd. He has 659 usd, so hes still very close. When you consider that he only has to raise 170 dollars (because his parents will pay half the cost) rasing tha money becomes a great option. Hiram Bullock thinks I like the band volume too soft (but he plays guitar). Joe Sample thinks I like it way too loud (but he plays piano). -Marcus Miller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kosta Posted May 1, 2005 Author Share Posted May 1, 2005 I bought the 200 watter because it was pointless for me to be at jams with no sound. It is a great amp, awesome tone, and plenty of volume to combat loudness of guitar amp. Also, i got a 2 year warranty for any breakage, and they give me a loaner amp if they are fixing mine. I love long and mcquade. Seriously if anyone has the chance, go there and check shit out. Best store ever. I remain impressed once again by their service, knowledge, and care. Long and mcquade = love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 Originally posted by twentyamptwist: If I may elaborate on this, you do need cones to push that air but you also need watts to push those cones. The larger the size and number of speakers, the more amp power it needs!Yes. And no. The more speakers you have (assuming equal efficiency) the less power you'll need to hit the same volume levels. And the bigger the speaker cabs are, the less power you'll need. Somewhere out there on t'interweb, is some info about the ultimate listening room, as built in Italy. The subwoofer system consists of either eight or sixteen (either way, it's a hell of a lot!) 18" speakers, driven by a valve amp coming in at something like 10W. With this amp operating at 10% of its rated power those speakers are moving more air than your rig could ever hope to in its wildest dreams... On a personal level, I often just use one 2x10" - when I bring the second 2x10", I have to turn the amp down. Alex P.S. Enjoy your new combo! Barefaced Ltd - ultra lightweight, high ouput, toneful bass cabs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 Originally posted by twentyamptwist: If I may elaborate on this, you do need cones to push that air but you also need watts to push those cones. The larger the size and number of speakers, the more amp power it needs!Yes. And no. The more speakers you have (assuming equal efficiency) the less power you'll need to hit the same volume levels. And the bigger the speaker cabs are, the less power you'll need. Somewhere out there on t'interweb, is some info about the ultimate listening room, as built in Italy. The subwoofer system consists of either eight or sixteen (either way, it's a hell of a lot!) 18" speakers, driven by a valve amp coming in at something like 10W. With this amp operating at 10% of its rated power those speakers are moving more air than your rig could ever hope to in its wildest dreams... On a personal level, I often just use one 2x10" - when I bring the second 2x10", I have to turn the amp down. Alex P.S. Enjoy your new combo! Barefaced Ltd - ultra lightweight, high ouput, toneful bass cabs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 Well, it was worth saying twice... Alex Barefaced Ltd - ultra lightweight, high ouput, toneful bass cabs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twentyamptwist Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 Well, enjoy your new amp, kosta! I'm sure you've learned more here than you ever wanted to know I agree that a nice used rig can be had for US$1000. I think the bottom line here is that no matter what advice people give you, you need to play and experience these things for yourself. After some time, you will have a good representitive reference, to compare future rigs to. I doubt this will be your last! Oh yeah, from an audio engineer: PLEASE WEAR EARPLUGS ALWAYS! You will be deaf in no time if you don't. Hearing damage is cumulative over time. You may not think you are damaging yourself, but you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twentyamptwist Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 hey kosta, check out this place if you haven't already: http://www.clubbass.ca/clubbass.html It's at 45 Ossington in T.O. SSSSSWWWWWEEEEEEEEEETTTT!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dohhhhh6 Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 Here's some really good deals (if you can get them to ship to you). http://www.instrumentexchange.com/bid-form.asp?list_id=000092&pid=40&catid=175&scatid=775&status=1 http://www.instrumentexchange.com/bid-form.asp?list_id=520668&pid=40&catid=175&scatid=775&status=1 I personally think that the Yorkville (and later extension) will work for you as long as you can control your guitarist. Oh, and here's a super cheap cab http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=177990 The Carvin would get the sound STRAIGHT at your ears, giving added volume for you. These are some seriously bang for the buck amps. Both offer 350+ watts at 4 ohms and cheap. I personally think that with the Yorkville and its extension In Skynyrd We Trust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicfiend Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 Congratulations on the new amp Kosta. I totally agree on prety much everything you said 20amptwist, especially about wearing earplugs. Have fun with your new amp kosta. Hiram Bullock thinks I like the band volume too soft (but he plays guitar). Joe Sample thinks I like it way too loud (but he plays piano). -Marcus Miller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahuna855 Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 did you keep the squire bass that came in that jam pack? if you do i will walk you through what needs to be done. step one: bring the squire bass to practice. if someone asks why you brought it, tell them that you are trying to go back to the "good ol' days" step two: wait for the guitar player to turn his back step three: slip the bass off and sneak up behind him or his amp step four: grab the bass by the neck, close to the headstock and raise it up over your head step five: send the bass crashing downward towards the target you selected in step three but, in all seriousness, sit down with him and tell him that until you can get enough money to purchase new equipment, he needs to turn it down. if not, i suggest walking. there's no point in having a bassist in the band if the guitars are going to completely drown out the bass. "I'm thinkin' we should let bump answer this one... Prepare to don Nomex!" -social critic "When I install my cannons, I'm totally going to blast their asses back to the 16th century; Black Beard style" -bumpcity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassdrummer Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 Congrats kosta! Glad you got the Yorkville. "All the world's indeed a stage, and we are merely players..." --Rush, "Limelight" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zod Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 I remember almost coming to blows with a 'guitarist' who only knew stairway to heaven. Every time I needed to tune, he would crank to 9 and play it. EVERY TIME. I was preparing to swing when my vocalist stopped me by spraying water over the drummer and drums. It didn't come to blows, but it won't down hill from there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Daddy from Motown Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 Trace Elliot amps sound OK not great but OK, But they ate very expensive. I also don't like graphic EQ. Yorkville Sound has always made great equipment at a reasonable price. I have two of their 2-10 cabs and they compare well to swr,or avatar. If you live in Canada you can probally get a good deal on yorkville too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloclo Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 here is some explanation of the workings of amp, cab, etc... (also in german and dutch. it's good in dutch, haven't read the english version) http://www.hevos.nl/engels.html Marvelas Something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassdrummer Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 Originally posted by kosta: ...My birthday is coming up so parents agreeing to cover half of an amp, and i tried out a 200 watt yorkville amp. http://www.yorkville.com/products.asp?type=32&cat=15 (Either the XM200 or the XM200T i forget which) It sounded great and everything, and 200 watts seems to be loud enough ... kosta -- I forgot to ask which combo you got. Is it the XM200 1x15, or the XM200T 2x10? Just curious. Did you have a chance to try them both out side by side at Long & McQuade? Sounds like a cool music store. "All the world's indeed a stage, and we are merely players..." --Rush, "Limelight" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kosta Posted May 4, 2005 Author Share Posted May 4, 2005 2x10, and oh it sounds beautiful. Has no problem doing battle with his amp. Long and mcquade are gods among music stores. I will take this time to once again praise them. I tried only the one, and it sounded good enough for me. My birthday came today, and it seems as though it will all be paid off... hooray! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassdrummer Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Excellent! "All the world's indeed a stage, and we are merely players..." --Rush, "Limelight" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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