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Opinions on potential new rig please?


steverm3

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Hey all! This is my 1st post here so I apologize for the length of this but please read and reply if you have an opinion. Ive been a silent viewer here for some time and must say that Ive learned a lot from you guys and respect your opinions and advice to others. Anyhow.. Let me introduce me and give you some background. I play bass for Chicago band 8 PER SECOND (formerly Hydro Static Union). Ive played bass for a total of say 7 yrs. Im also a former drummer of 10 yrs and dabbled in piano and guitar as well. Im looking to get some nice gear. My old setup was a GK800RB and a Hartke 4x10 usually seemed loud enough but I never got the tone I wanted. I was out of the band for a bit and sold that stuff. Now that Im back in Im just borrowing my bros Trace Elliot 250 head and his 1x15 cab this thing just doesnt cut it all around. One guitar uses a Mesa Boogie Rectifier w/ a 4x12 cab, the other a Marshall 900 w/ a 4x12, and a hard hitting drummer w/ acoustic and electronics. We play all original thats pretty loud and heavy. Our gigs range from small to large venues and I almost always go direct thru the PA. We also do a good amount of Studio recording. However, I definitely want to upgrade and get more power and tone for practice, and stage.

 

Heres what Im thinking: I really like the Mesa Boogie M-Pulse 600 and their matching powerhouse cabinets. Plus I may get a BBE sonic Maximizer. Im also kind of leaning towards getting modular cabs like the 2x10 on top of a 1x15 or 2 2x10s (all 8ohm). What are you opinions on these setups? Will either setup be enough? Any other ideas or suggestions? Anyone here play a similar setup? Any opinion on getting any of this gear used?

 

I do plan on finding these in a store and trying both configurations but am unsure if I will find them all together at once. Any input from you guys would be awesome. Thanks!

my Mesa Boogie Gear for sale on Craigslist.com chicago http://chicago.craigslist.org/msg/125111811.html
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Welcome! Your web-site is pretty cool, I'm on dial-up so it was slow loading. It seems you're pretty knowledgable (sp?). My ex lead-guitarist has Mesa Boogie equipment, and I love it. BTW, I think we're gonna be back together in the new band I'm with. In the recording studio I've used (per engineer) an old Marshall 100W tube amp and stack (isolated), and it was okay for bass on recording. But, I like the sound of classic Ampeg, Mesa-Boogie, and Aguilar. I lean more toward Ampeg and Mesa though (8x10, 4x10, and 4x12's). That is the sound I like. I hope I helped.

Vince

 

"Every child is an artist. The problem is how to remain an artist once he grows up." ~ Pablo Picasso

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If I was going for a new rig from scatch right now, I'd get a GK 1001RBII (Bass Player Mag's Outstanding Value Award), and a pair of Eden D210XST cabs.

 

You get big headroom, monsterous low end, plus the versatility that a pair of 500 watt 2x10 cabs affords you.

 

Use the pair of cabs for big gigs, and just one for small and medium-sized gigs.

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Originally posted by 8PerSecond:

Heres what Im thinking: I really like the Mesa Boogie M-Pulse 600 and their matching powerhouse cabinets. Plus I may get a BBE sonic Maximizer. Im also kind of leaning towards getting modular cabs like the 2x10 on top of a 1x15 or 2 2x10s (all 8ohm).

I've heard some good stuff about the M-Pulse amps. If you like BBE maximisers, you could get a B-Max preamp and power amp rig, which will give you a lot more power for less money than a Mesa head. But if you love the Mesa head's tone, then go for it!

 

I think you can get a lot more cab for your money with one of the more specialist manufacturers, than you'll get from Mesa. If you want something that'll have plenty of bottom yet still cut effortlessly through a mix with a wodge of low-mid growl, I'd check out Schroeder cabinets. This is their new 3x10"+2x12" cab, which weighs in around 105lbs, handles 2100 watts, and should be loud enough to scare the heaviest hitting drummers and most over-amped guitarists into submission!

 

http://www.schroedercabinets.com/images/2005/winterNAMM-310212.JPG

 

Also check out Bergantino, Epifani, Acme, EA and Accugroove. All fine cabs and well worth the cost, though some are less cheap than others.

 

Alex

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Originally posted by Edendude:

If I was going for a new rig from scatch right now, I'd get a GK 1001RBII (Bass Player Mag's Outstanding Value Award), and a pair of Eden D210XST cabs.

 

You get big headroom, monsterous low end, plus the versatility that a pair of 500 watt 2x10 cabs affords you.

 

Use the pair of cabs for big gigs, and just one for small and medium-sized gigs.

So you would do 2 2x10's rather than the 2x10 + a 1x15? The point that you said I can leave one behind for small gigs is a good one and it would still work with a 2x10 + 1x15.I would prob take the 2x10 in that situation. I just wonder what the dif in sound would be between the 2 setups. I thought maybe with one of each I may get better range and can get it nice and deep if I want. I'm definately not closed to getting both 2x10 though. Other reasons that I want 2 of these smaller cabinets vs. a 4x10 (or more) is the portability factor and I guess if I had both as 2x10 maybe at times I could use both and point them in different directions if it makes any sense. hmmm.. or should I still get one of each.. hahaha.. still not sure..

Thanks for your input!

my Mesa Boogie Gear for sale on Craigslist.com chicago http://chicago.craigslist.org/msg/125111811.html
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I recently snagged a used Bergantino HT-322 (two 10's and a 12). All I can say is that it's completely awesome in my book. It'll crank out tons of lows...more than I actually need or use, and I've always been a very "boosted lows" kinda guy! It has a very deep sound and full-bodied sound but still has plenty of articulation. In terms of mids, I'd say my Carvin 410's have a very "growley" character to them while the Berg has a very "throaty" character to it. (Actually, I think the Berg has less colored response, letting the throatiness of my bass sound cut through rather than hiding it with growl...just my suspicion though.) It sounds better and is as loud as the two 410's combined that I previously used, and it does much better than a 410 + 115 that I used before the two 410's.

 

I used to carry the misconception that a small cabinet with smaller drivers (like a 210 or 410...or 310 for that matter) couldn't possibly crank out the high-amplitude lows that larger drivers/cabs (like multiple 15's or 18's) can. The berg has proven to me that my opinion was indeed a misconception...at least nowadays with a modern cab.

 

Anyway, I mention this because I've seen quite a few Bergantino HT-322's for sale on ebay recently...going for about 750. This is a 4 ohm cab. My plan is to eventually add a 4-ohm 210...then I've got a small rig (the 210), a medium rig (the 322), and a large rig (210 + 322).

 

To my understanding, the Accugroove cabs are outstanding, and even more of a flat response. Everyone say's the Acme's are pretty awesome too (really flat response too), but they have really low sensitivities (which just means you need huge amp power to drive it loud).

 

HTH,

Dave

Old bass players never die, they just buy lighter rigs.

- Tom Capasso, 11/9/2006

 

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Here's a nice little rig; Schroeder 10"+12" and 2x12" (and 400W Peavey valve head!):

 

http://www.hartsafire.com/images/music/rig2004/oh-yeah.jpg

 

I'm a fan of the modular approach - I use a pair of Acme 2x10" cabs, which are fantastic but not the easiest choice for cutting through loud guitars - and if you want a plug and play rig a Schroder 1210 and 1212 would be very nifty. Take the 1210 when you need more cut, 1212 when you need more bottom (i.e. the former for boomy acoustics and the latter for low sucking acoustics) and both when you need to be really loud.

 

Caveat: I haven't heard these but based on the endless positive yet objective reviews on talkbass and elsewhere, I don't think you can go wrong with them.

 

Alex

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Originally posted by C. Alexander Claber:

I'm a fan of the modular approach - I use a pair of Acme 2x10" cabs, which are fantastic but not the easiest choice for cutting through loud guitars.

 

Alex

I don't know about that Alex. I pretty much agree with everything you say but, I have played in his same situation with two loud guitars and was able to eq in a very good sound that could cut through.

 

The reason I like the Acmes is when you go direct the sound you hear coming from your cabinets is going to the FOH. They do however require some healthy power. I don't think the Mesa amps have enough power for Acmes.

 

I was reading the review on the Mesa Big Block 750 and thought it would be nice if they made just a preamp version because I don't think it would have enough power for my pair of LB2s.

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Originally posted by WCunha:

Originally posted by C. Alexander Claber:

...fantastic but not the easiest choice for cutting through loud guitars.

I don't know about that Alex. I pretty much agree with everything you say but, I have played in his same situation with two loud guitars and was able to eq in a very good sound that could cut through.
I've italicised the key word; easiest! If you have enough power and are willing to think about tone/EQ/etc (and why wouldn't you, isn't music all about sound?) then I think Acmes are darn near perfect. But for bassists that take a somewhat boneheaded approach to amplification the smooth accurate response of Acmes falls down for them, whilst the Schroeders seem to have just what's needed for the densest bassist to cut through the densest mix.

 

I've never had bad or inaudible tone with my Acmes and I never need to touch my amp's EQ so I can't complain. But there are bassists out there that just can't get their head around getting the tone out of their bass/preamp combination rather than relying on their cab to add the punchy growl that gets them heard.

 

One of the guys on talkbass springs to mind - he couldn't get what he wanted out of a PLX3402 running 3400W bridged into two Low-B4s. He now plays something like a DB750 or SVT into a Bergantino NV610 - which is one of those rigs with got so much added punch it'll make a short-scale Gibson kick like a Jazz bass on the bridge pickup. If only he'd known how to get that sound out of his bass then the Acmes would have nailed it out front, but he didn't so he had to change to a rig that could 'fake' ;) his tone.

 

Originally posted by WCunha:

The reason I like the Acmes is when you go direct the sound you hear coming from your cabinets is going to the FOH. They do however require some healthy power. I don't think the Mesa amps have enough power for Acmes.

I totally agree on all counts!

 

Alex

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8...

 

The Eden D210XST cab will put any 1x15 cab to shame in both low end extension and midbass punch. The cabs are quite efficient too. Really worth an audition. A pair of them sounds enormous. I honestly can't envision any gigs where a pair of Eden D210XSTs would not be enough.

 

And when you go to smaller gigs, a single 59 pound cab with 500 watts power handling, and some serious low end extension, is hard to beat.

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I like the M-Pulse heads quote a bit.

 

I think you'd be happy with either the pair of 2x10s or a 2x10 and 1x15. One of our forumites, CMDN uses (used?) a Mesa 2x10 over a 1x15 with great success.

 

I think the modular approach is wise. Definitely offers more flexibility in terms of sound and portability. If you go w/ a 2x10 and 1x15, you might find that some single cab gigs might work better with the sound of one cab compared to the other.

 

Everyone here has his or her favorite brands and configurations, so you have gotten and will continue to get many suggestions.

 

And often used gear works out very well.

 

Keep us posted. Good luck!

 

Peace.

--SW

spreadluv

 

Fanboy? Why, yes! Nordstrand Pickups and Guitars.

Messiaen knew how to parlay the funk.

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Originally posted by Subsonicbass:

What is that?

 

Originally posted by C. Alexander Claber:

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/basscase/WhatsIt.jpg

 

Would someone please tell me what that is on top of Alex's rig?
Not my rig - this is my rig:

 

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/nicola.kate.simpson/photos/bigrig.jpg

 

But to answer your question, it's the LowEnd True-Voice Preamp . Tasty, huh? Slave it with the new AI Focus power amp for the ultimate portable valve rig.

 

Alex

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speakers speakers speakers. it sounds like your problem is that you're not loud enough, and it certainly makes senses from the riot gear your guitar players have. find a head with tone you like and then you MUST have more than 4x10. amps can work more efficiently pushing against larger impedence. so if you were to have, say, an 8x10 or a 4x10 with a 1x15 then you'ld be solid. most amps will be powerful enough. most of us don't have enough speakers.

 

example: my 450w ampeg svt3 barely cuts it through a hartke 4x10 at the rehearsal studio, but get it through an ampeg 8x10 at a club and i can run my guitar players triple rectifier out of the place.

Eeeeeehhhhhhhhh.
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I think that before we all go crazy and name our dream rigs, we should ask 8persecond's some important questions.

 

It important for us to know how much you have to spend, we will not demand that you get an el whappo if youonly have 500 for your cab, and similarly if you have 2000 to spend in your cabs we will not suggest that you go for a single 210 to cut through your guitar players amps.

 

It would be nice if you could refer to other player's tones or your ideal tone. For example if you love coloration in you signal and don't want outboard gear an acme rig would need a lot more effort than an ampeg for you to get your tone.

 

Also, if you're driving a hatchback and you live in a cozy home 2 810's become unweildy(er).

 

It would be nice if you could let us know the stores in your area and what they carry so you dont have to spend hundred's on shipping cost that could be easily avoided.

 

Please, fill us in so we can help you make a better decision.

 

P.S. To learn about some of the pro's and con's of these amps and cabs use the search button on the top left corner of your page and be sure to check out the company's websites and past bass player magazine reviews.

Hiram Bullock thinks I like the band volume too soft (but he plays guitar). Joe Sample thinks I like it way too loud (but he plays piano). -Marcus Miller
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Sorry Basshappi

(Btw that svt rig sounds mity tasty, as does the schroeder "most portaqble valve rig" and just about any other rig mentioned)

Hiram Bullock thinks I like the band volume too soft (but he plays guitar). Joe Sample thinks I like it way too loud (but he plays piano). -Marcus Miller
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Just in case you were planning on going down the schroeder, accugroove, berg 322 road. I would say wait until the release of schroeder's powered cabs. That way there will be no worries as to driving the speaker's with the right wattage. And you will also save yourself on trips and portability, since you can go for a simple one or two space rackfor a preamp, preamp and compressor, or preamp and sonic maximizer, etc.
Hiram Bullock thinks I like the band volume too soft (but he plays guitar). Joe Sample thinks I like it way too loud (but he plays piano). -Marcus Miller
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Originally posted by Ace Cracker:

speakers speakers speakers. it sounds like your problem is that you're not loud enough, and it certainly makes senses from the riot gear your guitar players have. find a head with tone you like and then you MUST have more than 4x10. amps can work more efficiently pushing against larger impedence. so if you were to have, say, an 8x10 or a 4x10 with a 1x15 then you'ld be solid. most amps will be powerful enough. most of us don't have enough speakers.

 

example: my 450w ampeg svt3 barely cuts it through a hartke 4x10 at the rehearsal studio, but get it through an ampeg 8x10 at a club and i can run my guitar players triple rectifier out of the place.

My rig is an SVT-3Pro through an SVT4x10HLF. The HLF cab actually sounds louder, as if it has more thump and presence, than the ampeg 8x10 I played through with the same amp. The 4x10 HLF cabinet sounds bigger than it is.

 

I recently had a chance to put this thing through its paces with one very loud guitar player and hard hitting drummer. It did fine though I played at a louder setting than I normally like.

 

I think in the future I may end up getting an amp with more power and a modular cab set-up, when I have more money.

 

But for what I spent, I'm very happy with my current rig.

 

Note: I also use an old morley power wah w/ boost switch, that gives me a lot of extra juice and doesn't clip the amp either, unless I turn it up to like, 8.

"The world will still be turning when you've gone." - Black Sabbath

 

Band site: www.finespunmusic.com

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Hey guys. Thanks for all the replies! So far I think everyone has valid suggestions and I still havent made a decision. I checked out some of your ideas and I must say that Edens gear catches my eye a bit.. However, I dont know of anywhere around here that sells the stuff. The gear Ive mainly seen in stores around here is Ampeg, Mesa, SWR, Hartke, GK,. Theres not a lot of decent music stores around here, but theres always Guitar Center.. In fact I was back there yesterday checking out a used Mesa M-Pulse 600 again. They didnt have the 2x10 and/or the 1x15 Ive been thinking about. So far it doesnt sound like many of you support the idea of this equipment its ok. Keep the opinions coming! I may end up ordering online anyhow. Ive played out of an Ampeg SVT-4 pro and an ampeg 8x10 with the band it sounded great. But, I drive a little BMW M3 and it would be impractical to tote that monster around, thats one of the reasons Im considering going with multiple smaller cabs. Also, like I said before, I used to own a GK800RB head with a 4x10 cab that was plenty loud I doubt I need more, I just never got the tone I wanted. I guess Im not even 100% certain on the tone Im really looking for and prob wont know until I hear it together with my band. Other bands that I get into include Tool, A Perfect Circle, Rage Against the Machine/Audio Slave, Janes Addiction/Porno For Pyros, Incubus,- I can probably go on all day about bands I like, but Im not necessarily trying to sound like anyone in particular but ME. I dont want to out volume the band as I like to just hold the low end a lot of the time. Also, I dont do a lot of slapping or tricks if that helps at all. Im playing a Fender Jazz. Money isnt really the issue (but lets not get ridiculous!), Im hoping to buy a rig that I love and will last me a long time and sounds good with my band and the music WE create- check out our website to get an idea - theres an MP3 section. Thanks all!
my Mesa Boogie Gear for sale on Craigslist.com chicago http://chicago.craigslist.org/msg/125111811.html
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Small car for a bass player... hatin' life. I have a Peavey head/4x10 rig and love it, but over the weekend played through a pair of Bergantino 1x12's and was very, very impressed. There are a couple of companies out there (Berg, Bag End, Aguilar, etc..) that are making 1x12's and those cabs are very portable. If I had to do it over again I'd go with "seperates", a seperate preamp/poweramp set up.

 

Do the 1x12's stack up to the 4x10? With enough power (I'm running 475 watts to the 4x10, so maybe 300-400 to each of the 12's?) I'd say yes.

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Originally posted by NUTT:

Small car for a bass player... hatin' life. There are a couple of companies out there (Berg, Bag End, Aguilar, etc..) that are making 1x12's and those cabs are very portable.

Do the 1x12's stack up to the 4x10? With enough power (I'm running 475 watts to the 4x10, so maybe 300-400 to each of the 12's?) I'd say yes.

The Bergs look pretty nice as well -wish I could check some out in person.. As for my car, yes its small for gear but I cant part with it- the thing is a dream! Besides, we usually take a van to gigs or if I need to I use my ladies Durango. But I'd like to be able to fit my gear in the car so I can take my stuff to and from practice when I want.
my Mesa Boogie Gear for sale on Craigslist.com chicago http://chicago.craigslist.org/msg/125111811.html
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8Per....

I have a Mesa 2x10 and a1x15, which I power with an SWR Sm-500 head.

 

It's greatfor my hardcore/metal band, the bassist brings both cabs, runs it in stereo and SLAMS.

 

When I play a quieter gig, I bring the 2x10 or 1x15 and lay back on the volume.

 

I also have an Ampeg 4x10 with a matching 1x15. Those suckers KICK when you push 'em with the SM-500.

 

Just another option to consider.

 

I like the interchangeable nature of the whole thing.

 

And there's a whole "cool factor" when you've got that wall of speakers behind you... it's frickin' bad-ass. Don't let anyone tell you different.

 

Big speakers=big fun.

 

I will not be one of the dudes who tells you to get a small, loud boutique cabinet... Yeah, they're efficient and easier to carry, but they're just not... BADASS.

 

Yeah yeah.... I know... big cabs are hard on the spine. Guess what? Tough titty. Sometimes you have to suffer for your art, and nothing worth having is easy to get.

 

OK, yeah... the small cabs can also sound nice, too.

 

What the heck do I know anyway?

\m/

Erik

"To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting."

--Sun Tzu

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Get a biger car

 

http://www.bassnw.com/images/Used%20Amps%20and%20Cabs/Ampeg%20Early%201980s%20SVT_1099.jpg

 

$1099

 

http://www.bassnw.com/images/Used%20Amps%20and%20Cabs/Ampeg%20SVT410HLF.jpg

 

$489

 

http://www.bassnw.com/images/Used%20Amps%20and%20Cabs/Ampeg%20SVT18_399.jpg

 

$399

 

You get 300 watts of ampeg all tube power, an 18, and 4 10's for the amazingly low price of

$1988 and cost of weekly chiropractor visits :D

 

Honestly though, you might be better off doing things online. Users og the schroeder 1210 say it replaces a 410 cab and it weighs 47 lbs. I've also heard that the accugroove el whappo can replace 2 410's, so a smaller accugroove cab might be nice.

 

For me, the aguilar rig I have is perfect. I use two gs210's and a db750. I find that I can fit it all in an suv, and one gs210 and the head will most likely fit in your beamer, giving enough power for practice. The tone is perfect for me also. Flat it gives me just the tone I want, and with small eq adjusment to bass and amp I can get any unaffected tone imaginable.

For example yesterday with a small bass and treble bump on the amp and bass and treble nearly maxed on my warwick the thumb I got the chris squire "roundabout" tone. And I WAS USING FLATWOUNDS. Three 60 pound trips aint bad either. I would look at acme cabs and a .ot of power, schroder, accugroove, ea, and aguilar if you are willing to carry extra weight.

Hiram Bullock thinks I like the band volume too soft (but he plays guitar). Joe Sample thinks I like it way too loud (but he plays piano). -Marcus Miller
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Lots of good advice here.

 

Use the web - manufacturers often have dealer lists on-line.

 

Wade, 09, Willie - give this guy some advice. In his first post, he mentioned the name of some little town he lives in. Maybe you guys can name names of places to shop?

 

Keep trying out gear. It's the only way to learn what sound you like.

Tom

www.stoneflyrocks.com

Acoustic Color

 

Be practical as well as generous in your ideals. Keep your eyes on the stars and keep your feet on the ground. - Theodore Roosevelt

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